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      05-17-2014, 03:32 AM   #155
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i feel like this is a pathetic attempt by bmw to make enthusiasts appreciate the downgrade in cylinder numbers from the e9x M3 to the F8x M3/4
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      05-17-2014, 05:06 AM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
Having owned turbocharged 4-cyl before, please no.

Unless BMW wants to do a hybrid ala P1 & 918 Spyder. Then by all means
I feel this very likely what will happen. Which I'm all for, honestly. People make such a big deal over what number of cylinders are under their hood. It's a shame.
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      05-17-2014, 10:15 AM   #157
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Please no more downsizing

BMW please don't turn the M division into a "save the planet" effort. No one buying an "M"car is looking to save the planet.
The M buyer is looking to feel the power, instant response, and yes, the sound. The sound is beautiful music to my ears. If you have ever driven an E46 or E92 to redline with the windows down, you know what I'm talking about.
But don't worry, most people can't even afford an M car and only a fraction of the ones that can will actually want one.
There are many people willing to save the planet during their commute and they will buy things like Prius or Leaf or Volt and even Tesla. Or even better just ride the bus or buy a motorcycle.
I'm one of the lucky ones to have owned an E46 M3 and currently own an E92 M3.
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      05-17-2014, 11:39 AM   #158
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You're knocking tree huggers and Tesla yet the Model S can do both the 0 - 60 and the 1/4 mile faster than the E9X M3.

Times are a changing. A decade from now, none of the best performing vehicles will be only running an ICE.
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      05-17-2014, 11:43 AM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockey
You're knocking tree huggers and Tesla yet the Model S can do both the 0 - 60 and the 1/4 mile faster than the E9X M3.

Times are a changing. A decade from now, none of the best performing vehicles will be only running an ICE.
How much does a tesla model s weigh? And what exactly is it's range when you're flooring it?

Think about both those questions very carefully.
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      05-17-2014, 11:48 AM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
How much does a tesla model s weigh? And what exactly is it's range when you're flooring it?

Think about both those questions very carefully.
Still we are talking about the future... don't you think that especially battery tech will improve a lot over the next 7-10 years? Every car manufacturer invests tons of money in that technology, so probably we will be able to have a battery no bigger than today's in regular cars that at the same time provide the possibility to travel 500+ miles and can be charged in half an hour... just my $.02

And the next step can be seen in Back to the Future 2... fuel your car with waste out of your trash bin
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      05-17-2014, 06:49 PM   #161
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The day BMW put a 4 back in a M3/4 is the day a buy a Mercedes.

Last edited by DeejAus; 05-17-2014 at 06:59 PM..
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      05-17-2014, 08:49 PM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evoixiaoni View Post
Inevitably, technology is advancing and the good old days of N/A motors will soon become completely obsolete, just like the manual gearbox. Where turbo chargers USED to be the "secret sauce" of making significantly more power and torque out of a comparably displaced N/A motor, they are now as ubiquitous as well...todays BMWs in their manufacturing plants and dealerships worldwide. In other words, essentially all makes and models, minus the SELECT few automobile manufacturers who are desperately holding on to the N/A application, will be forced induction. Soon the turbos/superchargers will be replaced, or rather, will be complemented by the new wave of automotive technology, electric power.

Based on the OPs discussion here about the "possibility" of a 4 cylinder motor for the next M3, of course it can and most likely will happen. For everybody on the forum whose primary concern for these new vehicles is the amount of power the car makes, let me be the first to tell you, you need NOT worry about the incapability of a 4 cylinder engine making enough power. They can make SIGNIFICANT power, and with the advancement in technology today and more specifically over the next 6-7 years, they will be able to do it in a way that will of course be reliable for a DD car, in my opinion. For those who understand that the true dynamics and meaning of an ///M car has always been ALL aspects of the car, not just engine power, the 4 cylinder motor will obviously aid in every aspect of handling and weight, paired with the carbon fiber technology and yes, battery power that I'm 99.99% sure, will complement the upcoming 4 banger.

What does this all mean? Well, I for one didn't appreciate N/A motors until I owned my e92 M3 to be completely honest with all of you. I was never a fan of American cars, and I absolutely loved destroying the loud V8s with my 2.0 liter, 4 cylinder motor. I had Evos from 2005-2012, until I finally let my Evo IX go for a new E92. I had a strong desire to step it up in the quality and class department, plus I wasn't in my 20s anymore.

Coming from my Evo did I notice immediately the lack of torque coming from the S65? Absolutely. On the contrary, did I notice the immediate response of the S65? 100%. I didn't get the E92 M3 car to be the street racer, I got it because I could get an incredible package out of the gate that I didn't need to modify and could still perform EXTREMELY well at the track......and wellll, the lack of modifying will obviously change. ;-) Just to be clear, my Evo would run circles around my M3, but it definitely wasn't stock. My Evo trapped 124mph in the quarter mile on the stock block and pump gas. Yes, it was wild.

The only thing I know right now is that in 5-10 years and beyond, many people will have a significant desire to get into the car, with the "antiquated" gas guzzling motor that makes that incredible sound and sucks up gasoline like well, my S65. Do I care? Absolutely not. It will always be a gem.

The new M3/M4 will be incredible performers NO doubt. They will be incredibly potent machines with the turbo charging application, but yes, the sound will never compare until you open up the exhaust pipes and throw some external VTA wastegates on them. Obviously however, it will never sound like a V8 either.

Everybody on this forum should be incredibly proud to own whatever version of the M3. They are all great cars, my brother has an E36 M3 and I love that too. Sooooo light, it's manual, and so fun.

Mercedes Benz and their CLA 45 has the highest stock horsepower in 4 cylinder form, and they have the same transverse engine setup as my 4G63 had. They can make gobs more power out of that too. Now just imagine what will happen "when and if" BMW throws in electric power to complement the fully capable 4 cylinder of the future? Well, one can only imagine what that car will be like, but the torque fill will do EVERYTHING to create instant performance that lacked in larger turbo 4 cylinder setups such as this, and will equally benefit from a high revving 4 cylinder motor. An example of my old Evo.



I clearly NEVER post, so i apologize for all the words. I had some things to say.
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      05-17-2014, 10:31 PM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evoixiaoni View Post
Inevitably, technology is advancing and the good old days of N/A motors will soon become completely obsolete, just like the manual gearbox. Where turbo chargers USED to be the "secret sauce" of making significantly more power and torque out of a comparably displaced N/A motor, they are now as ubiquitous as well...todays BMWs in their manufacturing plants and dealerships worldwide. In other words, essentially all makes and models, minus the SELECT few automobile manufacturers who are desperately holding on to the N/A application, will be forced induction. Soon the turbos/superchargers will be replaced, or rather, will be complemented by the new wave of automotive technology, electric power.

Based on the OPs discussion here about the "possibility" of a 4 cylinder motor for the next M3, of course it can and most likely will happen. For everybody on the forum whose primary concern for these new vehicles is the amount of power the car makes, let me be the first to tell you, you need NOT worry about the incapability of a 4 cylinder engine making enough power. They can make SIGNIFICANT power, and with the advancement in technology today and more specifically over the next 6-7 years, they will be able to do it in a way that will of course be reliable for a DD car, in my opinion. For those who understand that the true dynamics and meaning of an ///M car has always been ALL aspects of the car, not just engine power, the 4 cylinder motor will obviously aid in every aspect of handling and weight, paired with the carbon fiber technology and yes, battery power that I'm 99.99% sure, will complement the upcoming 4 banger.

What does this all mean? Well, I for one didn't appreciate N/A motors until I owned my e92 M3 to be completely honest with all of you. I was never a fan of American cars, and I absolutely loved destroying the loud V8s with my 2.0 liter, 4 cylinder motor. I had Evos from 2005-2012, until I finally let my Evo IX go for a new E92. I had a strong desire to step it up in the quality and class department, plus I wasn't in my 20s anymore.

Coming from my Evo did I notice immediately the lack of torque coming from the S65? Absolutely. On the contrary, did I notice the immediate response of the S65? 100%. I didn't get the E92 M3 car to be the street racer, I got it because I could get an incredible package out of the gate that I didn't need to modify and could still perform EXTREMELY well at the track......and wellll, the lack of modifying will obviously change. ;-) Just to be clear, my Evo would run circles around my M3, but it definitely wasn't stock. My Evo trapped 124mph in the quarter mile on the stock block and pump gas. Yes, it was wild.

The only thing I know right now is that in 5-10 years and beyond, many people will have a significant desire to get into the car, with the "antiquated" gas guzzling motor that makes that incredible sound and sucks up gasoline like well, my S65. Do I care? Absolutely not. It will always be a gem.

The new M3/M4 will be incredible performers NO doubt. They will be incredibly potent machines with the turbo charging application, but yes, the sound will never compare until you open up the exhaust pipes and throw some external VTA wastegates on them. Obviously however, it will never sound like a V8 either.

Everybody on this forum should be incredibly proud to own whatever version of the M3. They are all great cars, my brother has an E36 M3 and I love that too. Sooooo light, it's manual, and so fun.

Mercedes Benz and their CLA 45 has the highest stock horsepower in 4 cylinder form, and they have the same transverse engine setup as my 4G63 had. They can make gobs more power out of that too. Now just imagine what will happen "when and if" BMW throws in electric power to complement the fully capable 4 cylinder of the future? Well, one can only imagine what that car will be like, but the torque fill will do EVERYTHING to create instant performance that lacked in larger turbo 4 cylinder setups such as this, and will equally benefit from a high revving 4 cylinder motor. An example of my old Evo.



I clearly NEVER post, so i apologize for all the words. I had some things to say.
it makes sense on what you say. i think the 4 bangers can be successful in most aspects with the right technology. we also have YEARS before the next engine so theres a lot of time. like you said.

although the only problem i see is if others are still using bigger more cylinder engines. like how AMG is going with a turbo v8 for the C63. the AMG is going to make more power, and make better sound. its more appealing engine wise.
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      05-17-2014, 10:38 PM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacoma View Post
I think you guys aren't thinking out of the box.

The next gen M3/4 will definitely be some kind of hybrid in which case a 4 banger would be sufficient. Take a look at the Porsche 918 Spyder today, it's cutting edge and getting rave reviews. It uses a v8 and two synchronous electric motors to supplement the V8 to make 875hp and and 944 ft-lb torque. This is today. Think how much better hybrid technology will be in about 7 years.

In ~2021, an M3/4 with a 4-cyl coupled to much better electric motors should be able to hit 500 hp without much effort. Technology is advancing fast and I think the gas engine will likely fade to black starting in about 10 years.
That would be a sweet car (4-bangers sound better than 6s imo), especially with all sorts of ERS systems further boosting available power.
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      05-17-2014, 10:42 PM   #165
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I can truly see BMW making a kick ass M car with a I4 cylinder. Like if AMG can do it then so can BMW. All I'm hoping for is a AWD BMW M car to come out one day so then I can purchase it (Rwd wouldn't work because of the winters here). Otherwise my next purchase will have to be a C63 if the next gen does go AWD.

P.S I personally think my CLA 45 sounds amazing, especially when its switching gears and making a explosion sound. At times it can sound like a V8, not often though (I have the performance exhaust)
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      05-18-2014, 08:50 AM   #166
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When the tightening of fuel economy in the future, it is most likely possible not just with the M3/M4, but with all the competitors: M/B, Audi will follow suit with hybrid technology incorporated into it. The i8 is already giving us insight what the future will be.
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      05-18-2014, 09:47 AM   #167
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What most of you are missing in Pries' comments is WEIGHT reduction. That is what makes a high performance 4 cyl engine feasible.

Two of my favorite cars -- most fun to drive, super quick -- are (1) Lotus super seven (1,100 lbs), and (2) my 2002tii that was stripped down to 1,740 lbs. Both had 4 cyl engines with under 200 hp. For sure a different thrill than a Ferrari 365BB with a 12 cyl engine.

Over the years we have been slowly suckered into overweight automatic techno luxury hogs that can drag race and survive crash tests.

I would love a 2,500 lbs. M3 with a ceramic block 4 cyl turbo. It would kill the E92 or F8x.

We are more likely to see something like this in the Z2 first.

For now the most fun BMW IMO is the s1000rr. 193 hp 4 cyl 440 lbs. 0-60 in 2.9 secs. Top speed 190 mph.
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      05-18-2014, 10:16 AM   #168
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Interesting post from everyone will be interesting to see what's to come but say goodbye to the sound of Meaty grunt sounds. It's all high pitch 4 bangers from here
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      05-18-2014, 10:17 AM   #169
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Wink Yes but

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
How much does a tesla model s weigh? And what exactly is it's range when you're flooring it?

Think about both those questions very carefully.
The range of any vehicle is very short when you floor / race it.
Think single digit mpg.

The thing with the Tesla is that superb dual nature during the commute, sitting quietly and super efficient in the lineup, and blasting it when traffic thins...
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      05-18-2014, 05:02 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by stressdoc View Post
I would love a 2,500 lbs. M3 with a ceramic block 4 cyl turbo. It would kill the E92 or F8x.


Go ahead and put me down for one of these.
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      05-18-2014, 06:47 PM   #171
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Battery technology probably won't evolve very much in the next few years. Batteries have been a hindrance for a long time, and developing lighter, higher capacity, faster charging, as well as cheap batteries has been a huge problem for companies from Tesla to Apple. Another huge problem is how they react to temperature. A drop to under freezing can reduce already small capacity by 40%. Batteries just aren't efficient. Electric motors are, but batteries aren't.

We need a leap, and I don't see one.
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      05-19-2014, 06:38 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by psykick5
Battery technology probably won't evolve very much in the next few years. Batteries have been a hindrance for a long time, and developing lighter, higher capacity, faster charging, as well as cheap batteries has been a huge problem for companies from Tesla to Apple. Another huge problem is how they react to temperature. A drop to under freezing can reduce already small capacity by 40%. Batteries just aren't efficient. Electric motors are, but batteries aren't.

We need a leap, and I don't see one.
Yea but Elon musk! Lol jk
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      01-11-2018, 12:09 AM   #173
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A high output 4-cylinder engine could work if paired with two electric motors up front.

...and people complain about the F8Xs' exhaust note now.

They'd have to upgrade the audio system to 32 speakers and 1200 watts.

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