[rolltidef32]

Originally Posted by Blubaron79

Man.. People are really butthole hurt around here over headlights...

Well, those angel eyes and LED tails are just so darn pretty ya know....

Hard to look cool and overly pretentious with those just regular darn light bulbs.

I only bought this car for the looks and to make people hate me as I roll through looking so cool.

If the underhood and suspension are good, I don't see the problem. Butthole hurt doesn't sound good.

[crono06]

Originally Posted by tex2670

I'd be surprise if any of them go because of the maintenance....

Those who leave solely due to the maintenance plan change only bought a BMW because they wanted a premium appliance.

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Its not an excuse. You can buy an entry 3er in Germany with cloth seats, halogen headlights and yes plastic wheel covers.
These are very popular as fleet,government,Polizei,retirees and entry customers.
Its what gives not just BMW but also Mercedes their largest sales.

Originally Posted by Nacho98

But you're still going to make halogen garbage standard in the US again, aren't you? It's still an excuse because again, I can buy a Corolla for a lot cheaper than the cheapest BMW and it is still going to come with LED headlights.

It would actually be cheaper from a manufacturing and certification standpoint to have ONE headlight style.

I can assure you that it would not be cheaper to offer only one headlight style, otherwise every manufacturer would be doing that.

Prestige and image are important to these brands, but at the end of the day, it'll still come down to the bottom line. How do you make a pitch to your VP/exec saying that you should employ the manufacturing method that costs more?

Volume sales are very important to companies. Not only do they keep your factories running at optimal capacity, but I'm sure BMW also has quantity agreements with their suppliers. Profit is determined by more than just the end selling price.

Originally Posted by Blubaron79

Man.. People are really butthole hurt around here over headlights...

+1000 lol

[RedKloud]

Great... just got an F30 this week

[eqpablon]

Originally Posted by crono06

Those who leave solely due to the maintenance plan change only bought a BMW because they wanted a premium appliance.

Not true. I have always done a 3yr/45k mi lease on my BMW. I am on my fourth currently. Until recently I have always had a manual 3 series with either sport or msport pack. I used to SCCA and do track days, but not anymore. I don't have the time with children to pursue track day activities; perhaps when they are older. I have done ED, taken delivery of BMW's via PCD's and in general I love BMW; however...

There are great reviews of the new Jag coming out of Europe. Many reviewers are saying the new Jag has the driving dynamics you would expect out of a BMW and that it currently out BMW's the 3 series.

When the XE gets here I will test drive one, If I like it I will switch to Jag. It doesn't hurt that Jaguar is switching to a 5 year 60k mile maintenance plan.

If I can get a better driving experience and have routine maintenance covered for the 45-50k miles I'll use, the switch will be a no brainer for me.

[crono06]

Originally Posted by eqpablon

Not true. I have always done a 3yr/45k mi lease on my BMW. I am on my fourth currently. Until recently I have always had a manual 3 series with either sport or msport pack. I used to SCCA and do track days, but not anymore. I don't have the time with children to pursue track day activities; perhaps when they are older.

There are great reviews of the new Jag coming out of Europe. Many reviewers are saying the new Jag has the driving dynamics you would expect out of a BMW and that it currently out BMW's the 3 series.

When the XE gets here I will test drive one, If I like it I will switch to Jag. It doesn't hurt that Jaguar is switching to a 5 year 60k mile maintenance plan.

If I can get a better driving experience and have routine maintenance covered for the 45-50k miles I'll use, it's a no brainer for me.

I completely understand that and I'm in agreeance with you. If somebody else offers a better package, of course it would make sense to go with them.

You seem like the type of person that enjoys driving, and even though you now have other obligations, you'll still want a car that's fun to drive. Let's say the 3 performs better/is more fun to drive. Would you take the XE instead solely due to better maintenance coverage (stressing maintenance plan here, not warranty)? I'm fairly sure you, personally, would not.

Not sure if you read through the thread regarding the reduction in timeframe, but some posters in that thread said they would drop BMW just because of the reduction of time and coverage.

[Blubaron79]

Originally Posted by rolltidef32

Well, those angel eyes and LED tails are just so darn pretty ya know....

Hard to look cool and overly pretentious with those just regular darn light bulbs.

I only bought this car for the looks and to make people hate me as I roll through looking so cool.

Of the underhood and suspension are good, I don't see the problem. Butthole hurt doesn't sound good.

But the LED's bruh!

[ny325]

I hope the steering is fixed. Give the interior a much richer feel. I'm passing on the F30. Hopefully the next generation 3 is better.

[Blubaron79]

Originally Posted by ny325

I hope the steering is fixed. Give the interior a much richer feel. I'm passing on the F30. Hopefully the next generation 3 is better.

Have you driven an F30? What do drive now?

[nanceman]

Originally Posted by ny325

I hope the steering is fixed. Give the interior a much richer feel. I'm passing on the F30. Hopefully the next generation 3 is better.

Could not possibly agree more. I've had so many F3X cars for a few days at a time for various reasons (had a small warranty part not come in so got to keep it for 4 days) and then for the day here and there. it's just painfully numb, I have an E92 335is now and there is no way I'm getting rid of it nor under stating how underwhelming the F3X was to me in comparison for making me grin. Test driving a CPO '11 328i sport pack and new '15 328i sport pack back to back a while ago was staggering. The F30 was a great commuter, the E90 put a massive grin on my face. I will need to replace my current daily lease ('15 GTI) in summer 2018 and I'm really hoping the G20 out as a MY18 in 2017 will pull me in to order one.

Don't get me wrong, I'd still pick an F30 over a B8 without hesitation, I just want something that feels more alive and fun. I'm just crossing my fingers that I won't be in the very last F30 if the G20 moves back toward an E46/E90 when it comes to feedback and dynamics.

[Emilim]

Originally Posted by nanceman

I will need to replace my current daily lease ('15 GTI) in summer 2018 and I'm really hoping the G20 out as a MY18 in 2017 will pull me in to order one.

As far as everyone knows G20 won't be out until 2018 in Europe. So the earliest you'll see it on North American soils is as a late MY2019 or possibly MY2020 model in 2019.

I'd pay attention to the next 5 series (G30) to be unveiled later this year since chances are the G20 will take a lot of cues from it.

[Blubaron79]

Originally Posted by Emilim

As far as everyone knows G20 won't be out until 2018 in Europe. So the earliest you'll see it on North American soils is as a late MY2019 or possibly MY2020 model in 2019.

I'd pay attention to the next 5 series (G30) to be unveiled later this year since chances are the G20 will take a lot of cues from it.

I might just miss the G20. My lease is up in early 2018. I guess I will be happy with a 340. Meh.

[OUGrad05]

Longer wheelbase...perhaps a touch more rear leg room? That would be great, might keep me in a 3er when its time to replace the 335i

[BimmerMat135]

I wonder if bmw will change their mind about the G21 since Mercedes has bring the C-class wagon in here. I hope the car will have a significative weight reduction as well.

[Tommy_hf]

If SOP F30 LCI is 10-2018 and introduction is late 2018, first deliveries will be Q1 2019.

[chiefneil]

Originally Posted by ny325

I hope the steering is fixed. Give the interior a much richer feel. I'm passing on the F30. Hopefully the next generation 3 is better.

Car and Driver just reviewed the new X1 and says it has numb steering. So I'm thinking numb steering is the new corporate direction rather than a fluke

[Blubaron79]

Originally Posted by chiefneil

Car and Driver just reviewed the new X1 and says it has numb steering. So I'm thinking numb steering is the new corporate direction rather than a fluke

Car magazines just say that now because it's the cool thing to say about BMWs.

[cdgatti]

Originally Posted by Nacho98

What difference does that make? Have you seen the Toyota Corolla? Plenty of $15,000 fleet Corollas out there with LED headlights standard, albeit just the low beams.

Get with the program, xenons should've been standard long ago from a supposed premium brand. Are you guys really gonna play this pre-LCI/LCI now you have LEDs, now you don't game yet again?

Stop making excuses and just say BMW is greedy and cheap and will sell halogen headlight turds to people as long as people will still buy the cars with them. This is a nice area you could be a leader in the industry, and just say you are going to move forward with technology and make xenons standard across the line, which wouldn't even be that impressive since the technology is 20 years old at this point (Lincoln MK VIII and some Porsches had them back in the mid-90s IIRC). Halogens are 50 years old.

Nothing cheapens your brand more than halogen headlights and incandescent brake lights IMO. Are you still going to be doing this in another 30 years?

I bought an Acura TL brand new in 2004. The car came with xenon headlights standard there were no headlight options.

[CIWS]

Originally Posted by chiefneil

Car and Driver just reviewed the new X1 and says it has numb steering. So I'm thinking numb steering is the new corporate direction rather than a fluke

The previous X1 was based on the E90 platform. The new one is based on a Mini. Speaks for itself, and also why I didn't consider the new one. Probably great for it's intended audience. If someone was considering one I'd tell them to find a 2014/15 X1 35i.

[rolltidef32]

Originally Posted by cdgatti

I bought an Acura TL brand new in 2004. The car came with xenon headlights standard there were no headlight options.

I like the TL; wife had a 2006. Always high praise for Honda engineering and style.

...However, you know very well why Acura has had to give away the farm with every TL; the car is FWD which was a really big miss calculation on the part of Honda. Plus, since the demise of the Legend (another poor decision), Acura just hasn't had the marque it once had potential to command.

Honda was always more exciting than Toyota, but due to poor management, the image conscious just don't buy Acura.

Due to the lower sales and other compromises, yes, they gave you Xenon headlights. The fact that you can't see the tradeoff correlation between coping for a cheap to develop FWD architecture with free xenons, over a preferred and expensive RWD with xenons optional, shows that your thinking may be exactly what kind of buyer Acura targets. Those who look at stylish toys over real automotive substance. A true driver's luxury car has always been RWD. At times, AWD these days is acceptable, but never, never FWD.

If my wife's old TL were RWD, I'd still own it, as everything else about that car was near perfect, still looks good too.

[Michael Schott]

Originally Posted by CIWS

The previous X1 was based on the E90 platform. The new one is based on a Mini. Speaks for itself, and also why I didn't consider the new one. Probably great for it's intended audience. If someone was considering one I'd tell them to find a 2014/15 X1 35i.

It's more fair to say the brand new Mini Clubman and the X1 share a corporate chassis. Actually the C and D article was quite favorable. The actual quote is: "The steering is quick and keen to respond, though loath to provide any real feedback from the road". Not exactly praiseworthy but they also say: "The payoff (for a taut ride) fir this pain is back-road agility, a rare find in crossovers. Rock and roll motions are itghtly containtes, and there are occasional hints of sports-car-wannabe syndrome".

Overall the review criticizes the crappy all season tires and the car in general is a competitive luxury crossover but not a great BMW.

More troubling to BMW is the comparo in the same issue with the fairly new X5 which came 4th of 4 vs Volvo, Range Rover and Audi. In only it's 3rd year it was trounced by the Audi and Volvo, especially in handling and fun to drive. To me this shows that BMW is sitting on it's laurels as the sales leader and ignoring the enthusiast market.

[DrivenByE30]

Originally Posted by rolltidef32

I like the TL; wife had a 2006. Always high praise for Honda engineering and style.

...However, you know very well why Acura has had to give away the farm with every TL; the car is FWD which was a really big miss calculation on the part of Honda. Plus, since the demise of the Legend (another poor decision), Acura just hasn't had the marque it once had potential to command.

Honda was always more exciting than Toyota, but due to poor management, the image conscious just don't buy Acura.

Due to the lower sales and other compromises, yes, they gave you Xenon headlights. The fact that you can't see the tradeoff correlation between coping for a cheap to develop FWD architecture with free xenons, over a preferred and expensive RWD with xenons optional, shows that your thinking may be exactly what kind of buyer Acura targets. Those who look at stylish toys over real automotive substance. A true driver's luxury car has always been RWD. At times, AWD these days is acceptable, but never, never FWD.

If my wife's old TL were RWD, I'd still own it, as everything else about that car was near perfect, still looks good too.

Very interesting point of views.
I want to add that: for the TL, which i admit is a very good FWD on its own, but Honda never intended to hav a RWD due to higher cost of development, and because they dont believe in beung able to convince the enthusiasts to move enough of their cars.

Thats why right from the get go, they developped the TL based on the Accord, right down to the car frame and sub-frame.

However excellent the Accord may be as a FWD, it will never be able to compete against the best of Germans RWD in terms of driving dynamics and enjoyment...

Thats why even if Acura and BMW competes on the "$ame" luxury ground, Honda/Acura could only and wanted only to attract the general public who is more cost conscious and wanted a trouble free with less risks, but they wouldnt be able to capture the more driver enthusiasts among us..

There is Sport Luxury (FWD) and Spory Luxury (RWD), which the general population have no idea what it is... Acura played on that... The Proof is in one of of their FWD "drift" comercials.. Lame.

[chiefneil]

Originally Posted by Michael Schott

More troubling to BMW is the comparo in the same issue with the fairly new X5 which came 4th of 4 vs Volvo, Range Rover and Audi. In only it's 3rd year it was trounced by the Audi and Volvo, especially in handling and fun to drive. To me this shows that BMW is sitting on it's laurels as the sales leader and ignoring the enthusiast market.

It was pretty shocking to see the X5 come in dead last. Even behind Range Rover and Volvo! The horror!

It's sad to see the X5 go that direction. We owned a 1st gen and still own the 2nd gen and they were both really nice SUVs. The steering in the 1st gen was excellent, but the 2nd gen's wasn't as nice even though it's hydraulic. I've seen this story before though with the 5-series. From the E39 "best car in the world" awesomeness to slowly getting lower and lower ranked with each successive generation. Now it's not a surprise when I see a 5-series ranked dead-last in a comparo.

I hope that's not the route BMW plans on taking the 3-series.