[goj]

Originally Posted by SkhDO

jb4 + g20 m340 takin on f80's

Piggy back tunes suck.

[wknddrivr]

Originally Posted by goj

I'm not getting forced into a 5 series. I recognize that I love driving a manual but I will not lose any sleep over driving auto.

Nobody claimed you were getting forced into a 5 series. Sadly though I was due to a back injury when I was rear ended in my E90.

Just saying that people all too often use traffic as an excuse for driving an auto, but most of the people I talk to who drive MT including myself don't have any issues dealing with MT in traffic.

Now that I've driven in the most congested place in the US and probably the world with both an Auto and a Manual, I'd still prefer the Manual if I had the option

[goj]

Originally Posted by ssquared

Nobody claimed you were getting forced into a 5 series. Sadly though I was due to a back injury when I was rear ended in my E90.

Just saying that people all too often use traffic as an excuse for driving an auto, but most of the people I talk to who drive MT including myself don't have any issues dealing with MT in traffic.

Now that I've driven in the most congested place in the US and probably the world with both an Auto and a Manual, I'd still prefer the Manual if I had the option

My personal thoughts on the matter do not have to mirror yours

[rallybull]

Originally Posted by matowi

It may come as a surprise to some that not every BMW buyer lives in SoCal . Or any sunny and dry place for that matter. Where I live, I'm ultra happy to rely on 4 wheel drive in my 370+ BHP car. With only rear wheels being powered, I'd need to use other means of transportation on more than 50% of days in a year (rain, snow)

Well not everyone lives in north east. Why not have an RWD option also?(in addition to xdrive)

[rallybull]

Any chances of an M2 sedan (with RWD and manual) being ever released?

If not what car in the market is closest to something like that?

[classyfast]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

E82, last of the real BMWs.

Totally an error on my part. Agree 100%!!!

[classyfast]

Originally Posted by adc

Yeah right.

I’ve had all of the above and disagree with the blanket statement.

Each generation had its pros and cons. Compared to the E36/E46, the E90 non-M had wooly steering that was dipped in molasses (horrible sticky feel) and the M3 had the super light servotronic standard. E90 non-M handling also too soft for the weight of the car, M3 was a good handling car but the E46 sport/ZHP was better in some respects (steering feel for example, less weight).

No sense using rosy glasses, to pick only the best bits to remember the past.


As far as feeling “like a BMW”, the F80 is up there and then some: manly, brutal, quick, playful, and the best handling stock of any BMW I’ve tried to date. Doesn’t sound very good, but it’s a badass car.

I've also owned all of the above over the last 20 or so years....e30 325i was outstanding, my e36 m3 was brilliant, a pure enthusiast mod friendly car, my e46 m3 felt robotic until I played around with wheel/tire/suspension then the basic "inhale-exhale" mods, I've had 4 335's including an IS and hands down that 335is (w Mperf lsd) is the best non-m car bmw probably ever made! My e92 m3 was going to be a lifetime keeper.....no i-drive, cf roof, speed cloth, etc.....but oil consumption and rod bearing issues made me toss it.

My current f30 335 xdrive msport w/ all Mperf oem mods is a great car and my first Xdrive auto BMW ever (besides my old x5 and current X1). But it doesn't feel or drive like a bmw, it's not bad but it's not great.

I have a cross country trip worth of seat time in my cousins f80 and have test driven a couple m4's as I had an allocation in early 2015 before moving to CT. I'm not impressed with either, and in no way shape or form is an m3/4, even spec'd out full retardedly like some fools do on here, worth anything close to 100k. It's a 60-70k car tops with all the bullshit. Not enough car to demand that money.

Today, the closest thing to a e36-e46m or non m car that I've found handling and feel-wise was the Caddy ATS believe it or not. The ATSV is on my list for possible next cars, as well as a couple Audi's and MB's. I think most hardcore bmw guys are in the same boat.

[matowi]

Originally Posted by Law

It may come as a surprise to you but in the past, BMW gave buyers options/choices.
Live in sunny SoCal? Our high-output 3-series comes with RWD as standard.
Live in snowy areas and only have one car? We offer optional xDrive.

They don't have to be mutually exclusive in a model range.
If the 340i will only be available with xDrive, then BMW would have taken the choice away by making xDrive mandatory and that's what people have a problem with.

Agreed, it's good to have the option. As I don't have the data, I can't say for sure what the proportion of xdrive fitted models vs rwd models was in global sales of the f30 generation with powerful engines. Though, I'd wager, xdrive dominated. BMW would be stupid to kill a cash cow.

So either the market research told them xdrive is the way to go and they'll lose close to nothing by not offering the rwd version; or they'll introduce rwd later on.

[KSERGEI-BY]

Originally Posted by matowi

...
So either the market research told them xdrive is the way to go and they'll lose close to nothing by not offering the rwd version; or they'll introduce rwd later on.

They will offer a dozen of euro configured 3nothing with mt , rwd and options="no, thank you" here in our markets.

[RedGT3RS]

Originally Posted by classyfast

I've also owned all of the above over the last 20 or so years....e30 325i was outstanding, my e36 m3 was brilliant, a pure enthusiast mod friendly car, my e46 m3 felt robotic until I played around with wheel/tire/suspension then the basic "inhale-exhale" mods, I've had 4 335's including an IS and hands down that 335is (w Mperf lsd) is the best non-m car bmw probably ever made! My e92 m3 was going to be a lifetime keeper.....no i-drive, cf roof, speed cloth, etc.....but oil consumption and rod bearing issues made me toss it.

My current f30 335 xdrive msport w/ all Mperf oem mods is a great car and my first Xdrive auto BMW ever (besides my old x5 and current X1). But it doesn't feel or drive like a bmw, it's not bad but it's not great.

I have a cross country trip worth of seat time in my cousins f80 and have test driven a couple m4's as I had an allocation in early 2015 before moving to CT. I'm not impressed with either, and in no way shape or form is an m3/4, even spec'd out full retardedly like some fools do on here, worth anything close to 100k. It's a 60-70k car tops with all the bullshit. Not enough car to demand that money.

Today, the closest thing to a e36-e46m or non m car that I've found handling and feel-wise was the Caddy ATS believe it or not. The ATSV is on my list for possible next cars, as well as a couple Audi's and MB's. I think most hardcore bmw guys are in the same boat.

That’s cause the atsv blueprinted the e46/e90 platform, try an Alfa Quadrifoglio too


All this talk about driving I miss my imola red e46 sedan, not the quickest but love the exhaust note and the raw feeling of it

[gunnerxq]

Originally Posted by matowi

It may come as a surprise to some that not every BMW buyer lives in SoCal . Or any sunny and dry place for that matter. Where I live, I'm ultra happy to rely on 4 wheel drive in my 370+ BHP car. With only rear wheels being powered, I'd need to use other means of transportation on more than 50% of days in a year (rain, snow)

You're pushing it with the drama. Of course you can drive in the rain with that much Hp and RWD. Leave traction control on halfway. And driving in the snow is the best part! Just put on some winter tires and you're off.

[IS3andME]

Originally Posted by rallybull

Any chances of an M2 sedan (with RWD and manual) being ever released?

If not what car in the market is closest to something like that?

Are you serious? And why would they do that? Why wouldn't they have done that from the beginning? Here is a hint, 3 series sedan/4 GC and M3 sedan. Why would BMW build a fun RWD four door based on the M2 (this is if they had an actual 2 series Gran Coupe) that would steal sales from the 3 series sedan/4 series Gran Coupe, and M3?

What the spy shots are showing is what is purported to be the 2 series GC is a UKL chassis FWD or AWD sedan.

[uniqueMR]

US probably be getting: 320i, 320ie, 330i and M340i and maybe one diesel

[wknddrivr]

Originally Posted by goj

My personal thoughts on the matter do not have to mirror yours

Didn't say they should I was just offering another perspective on the 6MT in Traffic concept

[wknddrivr]

Originally Posted by IS3andME

Are you serious? And why would they do that? Why wouldn't they have done that from the beginning? Here is a hint, 3 series sedan/4 GC and M3 sedan. Why would BMW build a fun RWD four door based on the M2 (this is if they had an actual 2 series Gran Coupe) that would steal sales from the 3 series sedan/4 series Gran Coupe, and M3?

What the spy shots are showing is what is purported to be the 2 series GC is a UKL chassis FWD or AWD sedan.

Well they built the M2 which using your logic is competition to the M4. In reality though, the M2 isn't competing with the M4 and an M2 sedan wouldn't be competition with the M3. The M3 and M4 are too big for some people, and something the size of the M2 would recapture the market that BMW had with cars in the E46 size range.

Given the lack of a manual transmission on all but the 320, and the bland dynamics as of late, my next car will likely be a BRZ, Mazda 3, GTI, or M2 although for daily driving I don't need that much power.

I tried the auto thing with my 530i, and i'm just bored with it. Great car, but doesn't inspire passion in any way at all.

[goj]

Originally Posted by ssquared

Didn't say they should I was just offering another perspective on the 6MT in Traffic concept

Fair enough. For what it's worth, if I ever get a 3rd car it would likely be a sports car of some sort with a manual

[Law]

Originally Posted by matowi

Agreed, it's good to have the option. As I don't have the data, I can't say for sure what the proportion of xdrive fitted models vs rwd models was in global sales of the f30 generation with powerful engines. Though, I'd wager, xdrive dominated. BMW would be stupid to kill a cash cow.

So either the market research told them xdrive is the way to go and they'll lose close to nothing by not offering the rwd version; or they'll introduce rwd later on.

Hopefully the latter, though if the OP is correct, then the fate is sealed. Genuinely hoping that this is fake news.
While there's little doubt there is an increasingly growing market for xDrive, particularly when power and torque figures continue to increase, xDrive is still a relatively recent phenomenon for BMW and it's hard not to acknowledge that the previous generations of RWD 3-series & M3 sold just fine without it.
This is why I'm a proponent of having both options available.
Killing the cash cow would be stupid, but killing the ethos that defines the brand is also a dumb decision that will also, without a doubt, alienate many buyers.

[ynguldyn]

Here is what currently looks like the launch range for G20 (RTW - "rest of the world", i.e. outside North America):

318d - 148hp, RWD, manual and auto, RTW.
320d - 188hp, RWD (manual and auto) and xDrive (auto only), RTW
330d - 262hp, RWD and xDrive auto, RTW

320i 1.6L - 168hp, RWD auto, RTW (B48 engine shrunk to 1.6L)
320i - 181hp, RWD and xDrive, auto, RTW
330i - 255hp, RWD and xDrive, auto, all markets
M340i - 382hp, RWD (NA only) and xDrive (all markets), auto (RTW power output not confirmed)

Other models that exist but may be launched after market intro or not at all (of these, US will only see the 330e):

316d RWD
M340d xDrive

318i RWD
325e RWD
330e RWD and xDrive

[ihbase]

Looking at the spy photos it appears as though the character line running through the door handles has been abandoned in the new generation. Is this correct?

I hope I am wrong, this is one of my favorite design characteristics of the 3 Series.

I'm glad the hood has now returned to the top of the grill, rather than the square cut hood on the F3X generation. But the shape of the new car, along with the driveline configurations announced here, point to a much more generic product.

Hope I am wrong.

-Michael

[nozydog]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

What type of stupid name is M340?

They are really catering to the low hanging fruit of society. Just call it what it really is, a 340.

But it’s not just a 340... the current M140i & M240i (and now the X3 M40i) have M performance suspension, M performance uprated brakes, unique wheels with high performance (non run flat) tyres, upgraded air intakes and maybe a couple of other mods which basically make them more performance oriented! So they’re a halfway step between M sport trimmed cars & full M cars, for people who want a drivers car but without the full track oriented set up and cost of a full M car... seems a reasonable idea to me!!

[georgere]

Originally Posted by AustinL

The future is awful. Manual transmission will be dead and so will the joy of driving. This sucks.

We are on the same verge as were our predecessors. Try had to give up joy of riding horses for joy of driving and we are giving up driving for comfortable transportation and so it goes..::

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Why is this a surprise to anyone? BMW has been heading his direction for years. My sales guy mentioned that they've been advised to not order manual 3ers and 4ers outside of the M's for over a year now.

And what are your options? The A4 is available with a manual, but not the S or RS versions. No MB has a manual (thankfully.) Jaguar and Alfa threatened manuals but backed down in the end. The ATS has a manual in slow and fast versions and an LSD, but resale is horrible as is the interior.

So pretty much you're left with the F80 for a little while or holding out hope that the G series M3 will offer a manual, which it probably won't.

Or a DCT...torque converters all around from here on out....