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      02-23-2018, 10:48 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankchn View Post
ZF has the 8DT transmission for front-engined longitudinal RWD/AWD applications. I don't think BMW will/can use it, but they have one.
Thank you for the reference.

Interestingly, it does not seem to be a single axis transmissions, which would limit it's application. I wonder why ZF have done that.
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      03-09-2018, 06:25 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Not a longitudinal one that fits a front engined configuration though.

If the G90 goes AWD, it will almost certainly come with a traditional AT. If it is RWD only, there are good chances it will still be offered with a DCT.
You'll have to explain that to me, Porsche uses PDK (ZF) in its high torque (front engine) AWD applications.
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      03-09-2018, 08:55 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Wills2 View Post
You'll have to explain that to me, Porsche uses PDK (ZF) in its high torque (front engine) AWD applications.
Because they care about performance more than BMW do .

frankchn already pointed out in this thread that ZF does indeed make a new 8-speed DCT unit with a 1000N-m capability for the Panamera. As I pointed out though, this unit does not seem to be a single axis unit (input and output shafts on the same axis), which could be a reason why BMW decided not to use it.
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      03-10-2018, 05:24 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Because they care about performance more than BMW do .

frankchn already pointed out in this thread that ZF does indeed make a new 8-speed DCT unit with a 1000N-m capability for the Panamera. As I pointed out though, this unit does not seem to be a single axis unit (input and output shafts on the same axis), which could be a reason why BMW decided not to use it.
I pointed it out earlier when I said ZF made one I was referring to the Panamera PDK box.

You said it didn't exist, hence my reply.
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      03-10-2018, 05:30 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wills2 View Post
I pointed it out earlier when I said ZF made one I was referring to the Panamera PDK box.

You said it didn't exist, hence my reply.
It wasn't clear in your reply. I thought you were referring to the PDK used in the 911 that can handle 991.2 TT-S levels of torque.

But as I stated, the ZF 8-speed PDK does not seem to be a true longitudinal unit as the input and output shafts are not on the same axis.
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      03-11-2018, 07:32 AM   #50
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Way back in the "good ole days", the most depressing thing to see on the left side of the trunk lid was "Automatic." Very few 2002s or Bavarias were purchased with automatics for very obvious reasons back then. Even more depressing was to run across a very rare 2800 or 3.0CS and see "that" emblem on the tail.

Perhaps BMW should revive the usage of 51-14-1-802-320! It's actually still a valid part number even. This way all can be proud of their G80 M3 with its torque converter automatic by having its existence displayed on the trunk lid.

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      03-16-2018, 02:27 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wills2 View Post
You'll have to explain that to me, Porsche uses PDK (ZF) in its high torque (front engine) AWD applications.
Because once it reaches a certain amount of torque/load/towing Porsche goes with a conventional torque converter.

See CAYENNE.
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      03-16-2018, 02:30 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Thank you for the reference.

Interestingly, it does not seem to be a single axis transmissions, which would limit it's application. I wonder why ZF have done that.
also, because Porsche developed with zf, you won't see it in anything other than a Porsche.

PDK is made by zf, there's no other car that I know of equipped with a similar zf dct.
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      03-16-2018, 03:26 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkhm3 View Post
also, because Porsche developed with zf, you won't see it in anything other than a Porsche.

PDK is made by zf, there's no other car that I know of equipped with a similar zf dct.
Very good point.
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      03-26-2018, 08:19 AM   #54
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Last Spring I was at Lime Rock Park while Turner Motorsports was testing their M235R race cars. I spoke to Will Turner and several other members of the team. They all said that they were very impressed with the transmission in the M235R (which is a ZF 8 Speed). They said it shifted quickly and smoothly and they were getting very good lap times.

I assume that the ZF in the M235R is programmed differently than it is in the regular street cars but I do not know this as a fact. I would also assume that if there is a ZF in the new M3/4 it will be programmed similarly to the M235R.

On another note I have a DCT in my M4 and a ZF in my Jaguar. They are both very good transmissions. They shift quickly and smoothly. I have no issue with harshness of the DCT in traffic.
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      04-06-2018, 12:24 PM   #55
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What M3 needs is higher max rpm with closer gear ratios. Screw torque.
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      04-06-2018, 12:46 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
What M3 needs is higher max rpm with closer gear ratios. Screw torque.
I think the ratios are fine. 1st and 2nd already spin the tires. 3rd through 7th overlap if you shift at redline...
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      04-06-2018, 12:53 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///My5UV View Post
I think the ratios are fine. 1st and 2nd already spin the tires. 3rd through 7th overlap if you shift at redline...
Final drive 3.462 (F82) vs 3.86 (E92) on 6MT. DCTs are fine.
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      06-10-2018, 12:11 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkhm3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddien123 View Post
The benefits of a DCT are no longer present with the modern auto boxes out there. They can shift about as quick and even be lighter. And I'm totally guessing here but I believe cheaper as well. I'm voting for DCT, trust me I think they're great if manual isn't an option. But ZF made that 8AT too damn good and now we all have to suffer hahaha
I have the zf8 on the x5m and the dct on the m3.

Shift speeds are the same if not faster on the zf.

BUT zf8 has some SEVERE shortfalls:

1. harsh and inconsistent downshifts. even going from 8th and dropping to 7th in s3, there can be momentary harshness.

2. no immediate skipping of gears- if you ask for a 2 gear downshift, the tranny will shift twice, vs dct immediate and smooth 2 gear drop. if you ask for 3 gears downshift, you will get a one drop, then the zf will do a 2 gear drop, vs a dct which will shift 3 gears immediately.

3.torque modulation- The zf will make momentary cut of power during some gear changes that I suspect is to protect the gearbox.

4. overheat- I have now driven the x5m 16k miles. I have experienced 2,3 times where the tranny will just refuse all requests for gear changes after a prolonged drive. I drive hard and in manual mode 99% of the time. After sustained driving, I suspect the gearbox is overheating and commands are ignored for a short amount time before further action like a drivetrain warning. I usually stop manual mode for a bit once it starts to do this.

It is the best auto I have ever driven, but it is no dct.

Perhaps the new m5 has better drivetrain cooling, but I suspect you will see overheat issues on prolonged track use.
I am not sure if I am thinking of issue 2 correctly, but the sport ZF in my F30 will drop to the lowest gear immediately if you press the kick down and left paddle or go up on the shifter in Sport +.

I am highly impressed with the ZF. I would buy another car with it.
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      06-23-2018, 08:51 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
What M3 needs is higher max rpm with closer gear ratios. Screw torque.
7,600 rpm redline in the current iteration seems like a good compromise.
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      06-24-2018, 07:45 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trey100 View Post
7,600 rpm redline in the current iteration seems like a good compromise.
It is alright. ZF8AT however will not withstand rpm higher than 7,500rpm and practically bogs down starting 7,400 rpm.
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      06-27-2018, 02:24 PM   #61
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I hope for the ZF8. The slightly clunky Reverse to 1st is annoying at times in the DCT for me.
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      06-29-2018, 10:11 PM   #62
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Expect a much lower redline in the next M3 if they use the ZF or they're going to have to do some serious modifications to the transmission.

Here's a reference post about the F90 ZFHP75 by an employee.

https://f90.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...&postcount=161
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      07-03-2018, 01:21 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustChris View Post
I hope for the ZF8. The slightly clunky Reverse to 1st is annoying at times in the DCT for me.
@0:27. That clunk is the very proof of mechanical similarity to a manual transmission.
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      07-22-2018, 11:32 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Not a longitudinal one that fits a front engined configuration though.

If the G90 goes AWD, it will almost certainly come with a traditional AT. If it is RWD only, there are good chances it will still be offered with a DCT.
+1 agree
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      07-22-2018, 12:25 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by ///My5UV View Post
I think the ratios are fine.
I don't. The gear ratios on the F8X DCT have not been optimized for the S55.

I think 1st, 2nd and 3rd should have been made longer and more tightly spaced. What is the point of having a 1st gear that is so short that it can barely put the power down and then have wheel torque fall off when you shift to 2nd.
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      07-22-2018, 10:00 PM   #66
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Depends on how much torque it will have. The M-DCT could not handle the M5's torque it was putting out. It's also lighter. For the majority of M3 owners honestly, the DCT really isn't really needed.
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