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      11-30-2019, 11:38 PM   #215
kyrix1st's Avatar

Drives: E36 M3 Euro, E36/7, E92 M3
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Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
Interesting conversation, but I think most people here have not driven a comparable full auto like the E63S or F90M5. Coming from a DCT M4 and DCT F10 M5 to the F90 M5 I can tell you there is zero downside to the new auto. It is an amazing transmission and worlds better from a driveability standpoint.

I am not a manual transmission hater either, I love the 6 spd in my Civic Type R and had a 6 spd E90 M3 among a long line of manuals.

The new autos remove any need for DCT, they shift just as fast, have less complexity, can handle more power and still give you all of the control. People freaked out when they moved from SMG to DCT as well. Plenty of other things to stress about with the G80 like steering feel...
ZF8 loses out to DCT because:

1. Low rpm limit (7300~7400 maximum rpm) due to oil cavitation inside the gearbox. DCT is rated at 9,000 rpm.

2. Paddle shift response. Both up and downshifts are sluggish compared to DCT. If upshifted near redline, ZF8 has a very noticeable delay vs. DCT which is instant.

3. Too many gears. Frustrating to wait for engine to build boost and downshift because the transmission goes into 8th gear all the time. It doesn't give users joy short shifting all the time rather than wringing out each gear to the maximum possible rpm. This gets worse with higher torque engines.
Check 4:25 of this video. Steve Sutcliffe is a proper petrolhead that points out details with which enthusiasts are concerned.

4. Overheating on track. I can't count the number of times M240i refused to downshift because the transmission temperature was too high, the drive logic putting the transmission into safe mode. This is NOT an issue with either DCT or MT.

The only "downside" to DCT is low speed driveability which they had over a decade by now to solve; look at how smooth PDK operates.

This is just M division being lazy and counting beans. If they needed to meet an increasingly stringent fuel economy rating, surely they could have optimized the S58 engine better, like AMG does with nanosliding technology (which reduces internal friction between the block and pistons) without resorting to one more gear and sluggish paddle shift response.
Pass me if you can.

Last edited by kyrix1st; 11-30-2019 at 11:48 PM..