Quote:
Originally Posted by WWM3
You make a great point: the M3 has never been about just straight line speed. Cheaper cars can beat it in a straight line. It's about the complete package.
Yet, you point to straight line speed when it comes to those who clamor for the feel and engagement of an E9X M3 or other past generations. I don't care that a Mustang can walk my F80. But I also don't care that my F80 can walk the E9X M3 by whatever number car lengths you mentioned previously. In both cases other variables contribute to the overall driving experience. I miss my E90 M3 as much as I admire my F80.
Further, I don't agree with your comments about softer M cars. I don't believe the F80 is less soft than the E9X M3s I have owned. I also thought the F90 I drove was stiffer than the other M5s I have driven which includes the e39 I owned (I am not the 20 year old M owner you reference). I think they are actually less comfortable cars than their predecessors. My F80 is more of a scalpel than the E90, but what about the complete package? The steering sucks. It sounds like garbage. Generally, it lacks character. Still a great car.
Herein lies the paradox of the newest BMW Ms: The M division are still sorting these cars for the enthusiast and they are doing an excellent job. These cars are fast and have a terrific chassis. They are the most desirable in their respective class. However, the bread and butter 3 series and 5 series do not have the traits of previous generations. They have lifeless steering and dull character. Here is where the M engineers have struggled. The F80 was faster than the E90, which was to be expected as you pointed out. What was not expected and what shocked many was that it would lose the steering and character. Key ingredients for an engaging driving experience.
CF roof, high revving engine, etc these are more recent traits of M cars and I would argue not key ingredients. I was excited by the prospect of a turbo M car. Loved the N54. The 1 series M from what I've read is an absolute gem as well. That car does not have a CF roof, a high revving engine, CF driveshaft. I doubt those owners care at all. I wouldn't.
When it comes to the G8X, we have yet to see it or drive it. I am withholding my opinion until I do. I am very pleased that BMW will still offer a manual transmission. I find that very encouraging and a key differentiator between this car and its competitors. What is not encouraging is that the DCT has been compromised to save costs. Spin it however you'd like, but it's very disappointing to read that the rev limit is lowered to accommodate a slush box when the DCT is so awesome. When you consider that BMW has been at the forefront of engineering slush box alternatives it becomes even more disappointing. However, it's about the complete package. Let's see how it shakes out.
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Well articulated points. Thanks for that.
I appreciate the dialogue. It's great mind exercise when it's civil.