[KoenG]

Originally Posted by StevenX94

Haha!
Cars have really come a long way in improvements since then.

Steven, you're dogging the point here.... the cars have indeed improved a lot, but the cops haven't! When we moved on, less and less tolerance for drama is accepted. And I'am willing to mourn about this with you, but that's what it is.

You're probably buying a car to drive on the public roads around your town. That's what determining the pick: are you living at laguna seca or not?

[StevenX94]

Originally Posted by KoenG

Steven, you're dogging the point here.... the cars have indeed improved a lot, but the cops haven't! When we moved on, less and less tolerance for drama is accepted. And I'am willing to mourn about this with you, but that's what it is.

You're probably buying a car to drive on the public roads around your town. That's what determining the pick: are you living at laguna seca or not?

I do know that, and I am not thinking about breaking the speed law a whole lot lol, but its about the feeling for the most part. I feel I need to get the sweeter engine when in either case I will be spending a good amount on a car. Will take some time for my part though...

[KoenG]

ok, I understand this dilemma.

Once a year I go to Munich to drive a 'real' M car for a few hundred miles and than my mind is put at ease. The M is a treat especially when you exploit its extras. Still, I'am not willing to pay double the TCO of my none M cars since there is virtually nothing that makes a M better when you drive normal roads.

In the contrary actually: the M4 competition was my most fun ride ever, but it was also difficult to resist its constant invitation to give it full poke and start playing with the rear axle limits. The M5 was just incredible how it throws around this mass without any drama at all at lighting speeds. But at the same time, driving at a bit more normal, you would have fooled me telling me it was a 540i Sportline.

Suppose you buy the M340i and then the M3 is launched. Will this not put you again in this same dilemma?

[StevenX94]

Originally Posted by KoenG

ok, I understand this dilemma.

Once a year I go to Munich to drive a 'real' M car for a few hundred miles and than my mind is put at ease. The M is a treat especially when you exploit its extras. Still, I'am not willing to pay double the TCO of my none M cars since there is virtually nothing that makes a M better when you drive normal roads.

In the contrary actually: the M4 competition was my most fun ride ever, but it was also difficult to resist its constant invitation to give it full poke and start playing with the rear axle limits. The M5 was just incredible how it throws around this mass without any drama at all at lighting speeds. But at the same time, driving at a bit more normal, you would have fooled me telling me it was a 540i Sportline.

Suppose you buy the M340i and then the M3 is launched. Will this not put you again in this same dilemma?

Oh no not really, I know what you mean there. I would not nor could ever get an M3. That is because performance wise as I said, even the 330i is more than enough for my normal driving. The thing that makes me consider the M340i is that it has the engine that, according to many, is the one Bmw does best, a straight six. So its more of a "feel" thing (plus ofcourse the extra power), that if I would get a 4 cyl I might just as well get any other cheaper brand? Secondly, the M340i is a car I could eventually afford, even then it would hurt the wallet but it could be lived with.
A full M car is never something I am seeking, its more of a race car. I definetly do not need that much. Also, the price of the coming M3 is something i could never afford😁
I think if Bmw has made a version with a straight six that has say 300 hp, something between the 330i and the M340i, it wouldve been perfect. Maybe a plain 340i without the limited diff and other M stuff...

[moonboy]

Performance and Feelz wise 330i beats 320d hands down for mere 1000 euro you have to pay extra for it here in europe. I had E90 320d for 200000km, my wife has 2014 X1 20xd, my colleagues have 20d in G20 series and G30 series, and my own car is 2019 G20 330i with sport transmission so I drive both engines regularly.
In those higher tier cars engine bay is well isolated from interior so diesel is not as bad as in E84 X1, but its still audible noisier with deeper grunt and vibration. In regular driving petrol delivers power much more smoothly over wider rev range, diesel pulls better at low rpm then loses breath, the higher speed the more noticable it is.
Main reasons for me going with petrol is that I drive plenty of short trips around city, was annoyed by diesel's noise and power delivery, was put off by whole AdBlue and fact that more and more european cities consider banning diesels. I also wanted more power than 20d provides for less CAPEX than 330d.
Both G20 330i and 320d has particulate filters, 20d has DPF and 30i has OPF/GPF, difference being diesel one cannot regenerate in regular city driving conditions, it needs sustained highway speed to reach necessary temperature. So you shouldn't really consider diesel if your car won't get chance to regularly burn that sooth out from DPF, such as often short trips around city. Later on in car's lifecycle your DPF will get susceptible to clogging as for regeneration to work everything in engine must be fine which is never case of older BMWs, running too rich or too lean because of bad injectors, MAF, burning too much oil, faulty glow plugs, etc. etc. all will cause DPF to clog and unless you fix the root-cause problem you'll clog one DPF after other, and only OEM DPFs with price of 2000 euro really works. Then your diesel can seep into oil thinning it if regeneration is interrupted too often. Thats the general experience with BMW diesels after 120000miles here in eastern europe where operating used BMWs imported from Germany is a norm. In short used modern diesel can became real headache.

[Oswaldo]

For a distance of 13 kilometers, including taking the motorway, is not the diesel engine enough to take the temperature?

Or is not justified, to take 30d ahead of 30i?

[moonboy]

Your engine must have above 75 celsius, exhaust gas temp above 240C, no fault code stored and minimum 10 liters of fuel, only then regeneration will start. Happens every around 500 km, regeneration alone lasts 5-10 minutes. So we are talking some at least 20-30 minutes of continuous driving at 60kmh and more for all prerequirements and cleaning it self to happen. The higher the speed (ideally some 100kmh and more), the more efficient whole process is. So 13 km won’t do it, in practise you need to hit 50-65mph continuously (not possible in city traffic) for 20 minutes for every full tank. I was literally taking my car for a highway walk if I was driving too much city.

[moonboy]

If you do low mileage, want 6 cylinder but cant afford reasonably specced m340i, then go for 30d, just keep in mind it will need special care if your routine is better suited for petrol.

[Oswaldo]

Towards the question, because there is a lot of talk about this 6-cylinder diesel engine.

And it speaks highly of BMW's 6-cylinder engines.

So I was looking for opinions, if it was justifiable to pay for some of the options and the great difference in prices.

For example:

The price differences between the 330i and 330d are € 6,000

And between the 330d and the 340i XDrive they are more than € 9,000

I mean at configurator prices, without discounts and thinking about buying the car.

And as it is said that BMW is only the 6 cylinder.

I know the most reasonable option is a gasoline, but I was looking at the option of a 6 cylinder.

And that the difference between the 330i and the 330d, would not be noticed, as if it could be noticed in a suv, giving an example between the X3 30i and the X3 30d, that the most reasonable option if it would be the 30d or am I wrong?

[moonboy]

To complicate matter even more here in Europe we only have M340xi, while US has M340i and M340xi, but then we have M340xd for some reason.
I agree that in X3/X5 you'll need 30d more than in 3-series as at the end what you feel as acceleration is power-to-weight ratio and you need at least some subjective minimal power for car to feel right and fun. At the other hand it might make more sense to have power in sport sedan than in city SUV.
Its also matter of perspective, when I switched to my former 320d 120kW from 90kW Opel Vectra, it felt like fasters car in the world. Then I test driven various BMWs on local dealer promo action day including M850xi, and same 320d felt like pushing full shopping cart, in flip flops, with seized wheels.
Thus from my perspective of coming from E90 320d 120kW to G20 330i 190kW it has more than enough power, no need to get 330d and then wait few years to get that money back. (6000 Euro is a lot of gas).
Anyway for everybody trash talking 4 banger pot in 330i, I urge you to test drive it in Sport Plus mode with sport transmission option, you'll be pleasantly surprised. Its especially very tempting deal to get 330i at just 1000 Euro extra compared to 320d.
For mpg talk it heavily depends on mileage, 320d does 6l/100km, 330i does 9l/100km, thats 3 liters saved on every 100km, lets say you average 20000km a year, thats 600 liters of fuel saved per year, keeping it simple and not talking 30l of AdBlue needed by diesel, not taking into account insurances, etc. Is that a lot of money ? Is it worth of driving slower less fun car ? It depends on your preference when buying car with 60000 Euro list price. Of course if you drive 40000, 60000km per year thats totally different talk. What I would consider more than mpg is perhaps mileage per tank (900 vs 600km), lease residual value (the 320d might have substiantially better residual value, hence same monthly pay but more toys), etc.

[Oswaldo]

Thank you so much for your opinion.

[StevenX94]

Originally Posted by moonboy

Performance and Feelz wise 330i beats 320d hands down for mere 1000 euro you have to pay extra for it here in europe. I had E90 320d for 200000km, my wife has 2014 X1 20xd, my colleagues have 20d in G20 series and G30 series, and my own car is 2019 G20 330i with sport transmission so I drive both engines regularly.
In those higher tier cars engine bay is well isolated from interior so diesel is not as bad as in E84 X1, but its still audible noisier with deeper grunt and vibration. In regular driving petrol delivers power much more smoothly over wider rev range, diesel pulls better at low rpm then loses breath, the higher speed the more noticable it is.
Main reasons for me going with petrol is that I drive plenty of short trips around city, was annoyed by diesel's noise and power delivery, was put off by whole AdBlue and fact that more and more european cities consider banning diesels. I also wanted more power than 20d provides for less CAPEX than 330d.
Both G20 330i and 320d has particulate filters, 20d has DPF and 30i has OPF/GPF, difference being diesel one cannot regenerate in regular city driving conditions, it needs sustained highway speed to reach necessary temperature. So you shouldn't really consider diesel if your car won't get chance to regularly burn that sooth out from DPF, such as often short trips around city. Later on in car's lifecycle your DPF will get susceptible to clogging as for regeneration to work everything in engine must be fine which is never case of older BMWs, running too rich or too lean because of bad injectors, MAF, burning too much oil, faulty glow plugs, etc. etc. all will cause DPF to clog and unless you fix the root-cause problem you'll clog one DPF after other, and only OEM DPFs with price of 2000 euro really works. Then your diesel can seep into oil thinning it if regeneration is interrupted too often. Thats the general experience with BMW diesels after 120000miles here in eastern europe where operating used BMWs imported from Germany is a norm. In short used modern diesel can became real headache.

Very good points and info. Well written. I also test drove the 320d, 330d and the 330i. Petrol is much more sporty of a feeling and the sound is also sportier. Smoother all around. I have yet to test drive the M340i, almost sure that it is hell of fun to drive and the 6 cyl makes it maybe a whole different car.
Only problem is that I still think it is overpriced here, and im not sure if it really should be around 15,000 Euros more than the 330i

[KoenG]

Originally Posted by StevenX94

Very good points and info. Well written. I also test drove the 320d, 330d and the 330i. Petrol is much more sporty of a feeling and the sound is also sportier. Smoother all around. I have yet to test drive the M340i, almost sure that it is hell of fun to drive and the 6 cyl makes it maybe a whole different car.
Only problem is that I still think it is overpriced here, and im not sure if it really should be around 15,000 Euros more than the 330i

I presume you ordered the 330i already or are you still balancing between them?

[KoenG]

Guys, I would advice not to get too focussed on the 6cyl thing. It made sense in the past, it almost doesn't today.

Indeed, I also still read reviews that are nostalgic about 6 cyl engines but that's no longer justified. What you need is a rounded 4-cyl with a good turbo that responses fast and already as from low rpm. Both 330i and 320d provide them. My dreamcar has become a 3 or 5 with the 4 cyl engine of the M235i. It would render dreamcar sensations to me without dragging me in financial failure. When you want more boost ==> tesla 3 performance.

4cyl, Why than a bmw? There are a few hundred reasons why. Amongst them, vehicle dynamics and balance as most important onces.

[Oswaldo]

Originally Posted by StevenX94

Very good points and info. Well written. I also test drove the 320d, 330d and the 330i. Petrol is much more sporty of a feeling and the sound is also sportier. Smoother all around. I have yet to test drive the M340i, almost sure that it is hell of fun to drive and the 6 cyl makes it maybe a whole different car.
Only problem is that I still think it is overpriced here, and im not sure if it really should be around 15,000 Euros more than the 330i

In Spain, the difference is also over € 15000, between the 330i XDrive and the M340i XDrive. Already if we compare it with the 330i it is over € 18000.

[Oswaldo]

The positive side of the 330i, which could have more extras if that were the case. And comfortably add M Performance parts if need be

[famarm]

I love the 6 cylinder but unfortunately today the offer is very limited.
In the 4 cylinder there is a better weight distribution (engine weight closer to the center of gravity) and up to a few years ago also a higher torque in the lower part.
In the event of a frontal collision, the small size of the 4 cylinder has an advantage. In EUROENCAP tests, a small engine is preferred for better results.
I say long life to the BMW 6 cylinder

[StevenX94]

Originally Posted by KoenG

I presume you ordered the 330i already or are you still balancing between them?

Was very close to ordering, but I feel like I still am figuring out if I am perfectly satisfied with the 330i deep inside or should I wait for a decent deal and go "all in" with the M340i. The summary of the dilemma is, mind says 330i, heart says m340i.

[klokan]

Originally Posted by StevenX94

Was very close to ordering, but I feel like I still am figuring out if I am perfectly satisfied with the 330i deep inside or should I wait for a decent deal and go "all in" with the M340i. The summary of the dilemma is, mind says 330i, heart says m340i.

I wanted to go "all in".

But when I figured out the costs, the speed limits, and quality of roads... but mostly the costs, difference in money spent, which I can use for several fantastic trips with my family in that car... I went with 330i. And no regrets!

You live in Sweden and it's even worse there, with lower speed limits. One stronger overtaking without letting foot of the pedal straight away, and you're waaayyyy in the police ticket area. With 330i. And I'll tell you - it's very inviting and very tempting, even with 4cyl. Yes, my heart also says M340i. If I would live in Germany - sure, all the way. But here, under these conditions... I don't think so.

Although, if yo go with it, what a ride it will be.

[StevenX94]

Originally Posted by klokan

I wanted to go "all in".

But when I figured out the costs, the speed limits, and quality of roads... but mostly the costs, difference in money spent, which I can use for several fantastic trips with my family in that car... I went with 330i. And no regrets!

You live in Sweden and it's even worse there, with lower speed limits. One stronger overtaking without letting foot of the pedal straight away, and you're waaayyyy in the police ticket area. With 330i. And I'll tell you - it's very inviting and very tempting, even with 4cyl. Yes, my heart also says M340i. If I would live in Germany - sure, all the way. But here, under these conditions... I don't think so.

Although, if yo go with it, what a ride it will be.

I agree with you with either car you cant gas alot if the plan is to drive legally lol.
I am willing though to watch the prices of the M340i, who knows what deals might show up in these Corona times..if no great deals come up until the end of 2020 then I guess 330i it is

[moonboy]

The difference is not quite 15000, with m340xi you’ll get all the M package (suspension, brakes, body, interior, wheels, pdc, etc.) and on top of that important LSD and some other options not in standart M package (live cockpit plus,..) so solely those 2 extra cylinders are around 7k. My experience with 330i on stock suspension is that the engine has enough power to push that suspension to the limit with just spirited (not hooligan) driving and M shocks with 255 rear are really desirable with this engine option. I would only get m340i if could afford to get it with at least adaptive leds, harman kardon/hifi, cruise control, carplay with qi, etc. as even though 6cyl is fun it only goes so far in daily use. Decently loaded 330xi will be priced quite close to bare m340xi.

[StevenX94]

Originally Posted by moonboy

The difference is not quite 15000, with m340xi you’ll get all the M package (suspension, brakes, body, interior, wheels, pdc, etc.) and on top of that important LSD and some other options not in standart M package (live cockpit plus,..) so solely those 2 extra cylinders are around 7k. My experience with 330i on stock suspension is that the engine has enough power to push that suspension to the limit with just spirited (not hooligan) driving and M shocks with 255 rear are really desirable with this engine option. I would only get m340i if could afford to get it with at least adaptive leds, harman kardon/hifi, cruise control, carplay with qi, etc. as even though 6cyl is fun it only goes so far in daily use. Decently loaded 330xi will be priced quite close to bare m340xi.

I guess those price differences are where you live? Here, a fully loaded (maxed) 330i m-sport about 12k cheaper than a bare m340i...a decently loaded m340i would be around 70k euros.