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      12-18-2017, 03:41 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by goj View Post
Bmw should either vomit to AWD or RWD IMO. They don't need all these options.

M5 is getting good reviews do they should use that and keep an 400hp M2 around!
I am in favor of vomit 100%
Lol got me and autocorrect. "Commit"
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      12-18-2017, 04:01 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
WTH not? M5 and X5M/X6M share the engine (it's pretty much guaranteed F95/F96 will have the same exact drivetrain as F90), sharing S58 across 3/4/X3/X4 is only logical.
B58, agree 100%, S58 "across 3/4/x3/x4" I can't say I've ever seen such a thing. And I suppose my initial comment, was meant in the opposing way, lol.

The M3/4 is such a performance oriented vehicle, engine notwithstanding, of course.. Why would they include such a "designated" drivetrain like an "S" series engine, to an X3-M? It's an M-variant, not an M car. To me, with the demographic and $$ required, it's never going to draw a true "M" car crowd, anyway. So why not "save" and put a tuned B58, into the X3-M, instead? That seems much more logical to the consumer (end buyer) as well as the production line.

The only way I could see this "winning" to the end buyer's, is if the MSRP on the M3/4 drops 10% due to the shared engine/platform. Which would in turn, drive the price of the X3-M, upward. Has this been mentioned, anywhere for the US/CAN market yet?

I'm all for shared platforms and unique "in-between" models, but I feel BMW is shooting themselves in the foot if this is the plan for the X3-M. Watch the future X4/5-M sales tank, without question. Unless BMW is doing this, intentionally to "weed-out" one of the above mentioned S-U models?
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      12-18-2017, 04:08 PM   #201
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M3: Please 500+ hp, option of x-drive with availability of early 2020.
M4: late 2020 availability.
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      12-18-2017, 04:31 PM   #202
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Not digging the timing chain location nor the coolant system plumbing since it's more complicated than the death star's sewer system. That and the lack of transmission clarity will probably lead me into a late model year f80 zcp. Like that's almost a bad thing!
Wait... people are making car buying decisions over the location of the timing chain????

what am I missing here that of all the cars I've owned timing chain location has never been .... say.... in the top 100 things I care about.
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      12-18-2017, 04:42 PM   #203
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Wait... people are making car buying decisions over the location of the timing chain????

what am I missing here that of all the cars I've owned timing chain location has never been .... say.... in the top 100 things I care about.
If you outright own your vehicles with intentions of long-term ownership, and would be subject to future out-of-pocket maintenance costs, this is in fact a very valid concern. Especially if there are alternatives.
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      12-18-2017, 04:56 PM   #204
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The M3/4 is such a performance oriented vehicle, engine notwithstanding, of course.. Why would they include such a "designated" drivetrain like an "S" series engine, to an X3-M? It's an M-variant, not an M car. To me, with the demographic and $$ required, it's never going to draw a true "M" car crowd, anyway. So why not "save" and put a tuned B58, into the X3-M, instead? That seems much more logical to the consumer (end buyer) as well as the production line.
X3/X4 M's are true M car's now, according to BMW. You can't put a B58 in these M variants and expect to compete with the GLC 63's and Macan Turbo's of the world. S58 gives them the power they need in that segment.

With your logic, they should use B58 and tune it to reach GLC 63 power levels. Well, that's what they did. The end result is S58.
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      12-18-2017, 05:08 PM   #205
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All I do is chase my tail...I just picked up my '18 Tanz M3ZCP two weeks ago!!
So you pretty much convinced everyone to buy a Jag F type and bailed???

Well played, sir.
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      12-18-2017, 05:10 PM   #206
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These spy shots do nothing for me. Someone please help me out. This looks like an f80 with camo?
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      12-18-2017, 05:11 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by Kief View Post
All I do is chase my tail...I just picked up my '18 Tanz M3ZCP two weeks ago!!
So you pretty much convinced everyone to buy a Jag F type and bailed???

Well played, sir.
Yup
And just ordered an X3 M40i for the wifey last Saturday
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      12-18-2017, 05:14 PM   #208
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Yup
Congrats! Btw, you change cars at a ridiculous pace. You pretty much change 2 cars for every 1 of mine. And I thought I was bad!!!
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      12-18-2017, 05:15 PM   #209
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Yup
And just ordered an X3 M40i for the wifey last Saturday
Unbelievable!!!
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      12-18-2017, 05:20 PM   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BwoodBMW View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by amw896 View Post
Not digging the timing chain location nor the coolant system plumbing since it's more complicated than the death star's sewer system. That and the lack of transmission clarity will probably lead me into a late model year f80 zcp. Like that's almost a bad thing!
Wait... people are making car buying decisions over the location of the timing chain????

what am I missing here that of all the cars I've owned timing chain location has never been .... say.... in the top 100 things I care about.
I don't understand what's difficult...serviceability will be a nightmare for tensioners, belts, timing chains and vanos. Obviously people who only lease won't care but I don't rent cars for the same reason I don't rent furniture or appliances. This and the fact that I would no doubt be tuned so if anything goes wrong, then I'd be stuck with a lot complications that I'd rather avoid.
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      12-18-2017, 05:34 PM   #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan86 View Post
B58, agree 100%, S58 "across 3/4/x3/x4" I can't say I've ever seen such a thing. And I suppose my initial comment, was meant in the opposing way, lol.

The M3/4 is such a performance oriented vehicle, engine notwithstanding, of course.. Why would they include such a "designated" drivetrain like an "S" series engine, to an X3-M? It's an M-variant, not an M car. To me, with the demographic and $$ required, it's never going to draw a true "M" car crowd, anyway. So why not "save" and put a tuned B58, into the X3-M, instead? That seems much more logical to the consumer (end buyer) as well as the production line.

The only way I could see this "winning" to the end buyer's, is if the MSRP on the M3/4 drops 10% due to the shared engine/platform. Which would in turn, drive the price of the X3-M, upward. Has this been mentioned, anywhere for the US/CAN market yet?

I'm all for shared platforms and unique "in-between" models, but I feel BMW is shooting themselves in the foot if this is the plan for the X3-M. Watch the future X4/5-M sales tank, without question. Unless BMW is doing this, intentionally to "weed-out" one of the above mentioned S-U models?
so the M in X3 M is to be ignored?

Quote:
Originally Posted by InspireSiR View Post
X3/X4 M's are true M car's now, according to BMW. You can't put a B58 in these M variants and expect to compete with the GLC 63's and Macan Turbo's of the world. S58 gives them the power they need in that segment.

With your logic, they should use B58 and tune it to reach GLC 63 power levels. Well, that's what they did. The end result is S58.

Regardless of the motor inside.. Any BMW with an M on it that was designated as such by BMW AG is an M car. Natch.

BMW is expanding beyond the X5M and X6M to add an X4M and X3M.... my understanding is the X3M and X4 M variants will receive the S58 BEFORE the next (G80) M3 and M4.

The X5M, X6M, M5 and M6 shared the same motor in the past... so no reason to think that BMW wouldn't share the motor in the M3/M4/X3M/X4M

Last edited by M3 Adjuster; 12-18-2017 at 05:45 PM..
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      12-18-2017, 06:20 PM   #212
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I believe BMW has commented that the next M3/4 will be rwd.
But correct me if I’m wrong, those new photos look like a square tire setup.
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      12-18-2017, 07:03 PM   #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falafel Combo View Post
These spy shots do nothing for me. Someone please help me out. This looks like an f80 with camo?
Agree 100%......meh.....just meh
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      12-18-2017, 07:24 PM   #214
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I may be just another annoying biased previous generation M3 owner (F80) but this is looking pretty lame so far... rear fenders look BORING. Can't believe I am "that" guy already
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      12-18-2017, 07:33 PM   #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InspireSiR View Post
X3/X4 M's are true M car's now, according to BMW. You can't put a B58 in these M variants and expect to compete with the GLC 63's and Macan Turbo's of the world. S58 gives them the power they need in that segment.

With your logic, they should use B58 and tune it to reach GLC 63 power levels. Well, that's what they did. The end result is S58.
Are you suggesting that the X3M is built to contend with a GLC 63s, Macan Turbo, though? I can't see that being BMW's focus, here..
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      12-18-2017, 07:38 PM   #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
so the M in X3 M is to be ignored?




Regardless of the motor inside.. Any BMW with an M on it that was designated as such by BMW AG is an M car. Natch.

BMW is expanding beyond the X5M and X6M to add an X4M and X3M.... my understanding is the X3M and X4 M variants will receive the S58 BEFORE the next (G80) M3 and M4.

The X5M, X6M, M5 and M6 shared the same motor in the past... so no reason to think that BMW wouldn't share the motor in the M3/M4/X3M/X4M
Not ignoring the X3M, whatsoever. My point was that if they make a S58 equipped X3M, what will they do to keep the X5/6M interesting?

Also, I may have mixed myself up with an article I read on the upcoming "X3-M40i", this is a different car, right?
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      12-18-2017, 07:50 PM   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan86 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
so the M in X3 M is to be ignored?




Regardless of the motor inside.. Any BMW with an M on it that was designated as such by BMW AG is an M car. Natch.

BMW is expanding beyond the X5M and X6M to add an X4M and X3M.... my understanding is the X3M and X4 M variants will receive the S58 BEFORE the next (G80) M3 and M4.

The X5M, X6M, M5 and M6 shared the same motor in the past... so no reason to think that BMW wouldn't share the motor in the M3/M4/X3M/X4M
Not ignoring the X3M, whatsoever. My point was that if they make a S58 equipped X3M, what will they do to keep the X5/6M interesting?

Also, I may have mixed myself up with an article I read on the upcoming "X3-M40i", this is a different car, right?
The new M5 just topped $103k as it's base price.

The current X5M is $100,700 and the X6M is $104,100.

The X3 m40 is priced at $54.300 and slots below the upcoming X3M.

The model below the X3M40 is the Xdrivre 30i at $42,540.

Sounds like a hole in the lineup big enough for an X3M and an X4M doesn't it. ?

I bet the X3M comes in at around $67.5K and the X4M around $71.5K.

The current M3 and M4 are listed at $65k and $66k respectively.

Last edited by M3 Adjuster; 12-18-2017 at 08:01 PM..
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      12-18-2017, 07:57 PM   #218
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      12-18-2017, 07:58 PM   #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
The new M5 just topped 103k as it's base price.

The current X5M is 100,700 and the X6M is 104,100.

The X3 m40 is priced at $54.300 and slots below the upcoming X3M.

Sounds like a hole in the lineup big enough for an X3M and an X4M doesn't it. ?
Sure does. I made the mistake of assuming this was a change from the previous read, I had, of the new X3-M40 (the M variant)to be equipped with the B58. The X3M, if equipped as mentioned, would be an M car, no doubt
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      12-18-2017, 08:15 PM   #220
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Actually the real reason is: rules and regulations. AWD is not allowed in those classes, as simple as that. And xDrive only adds around 185 lbs of weight, not as bad as you think.

AWD always helps when you have lots more power than grip - look at WRC, Rallycross. That is not the case with an M3 just yet, but if it had 600BHP perhaps it too would need AWD to make it work well.
You are comparing the wrong sport.

Regulations are usually there to keep the cost under control, as most indy teams would have no chance to compete against factory teams in that sense.

Furthermore, rallies are based on deep tread tyres with less than optimal road surface conditions and slippery off roads where AWD benefits generally outweigh lighter drivetrain of RWD or FWD.

For endurance races where all of them are held on circuits with smooth surface, however, 50kg weight addition to the drivetrain will cost on back straights and hugely hurt cornering capabilities. Remember these vehicles gave an arm and a leg to get the weight down to 1200kg (e.g. Bentley continental GT.); for them it is better thus to focus on aerodynamics and mechanical grip using widest tyres and track width of suspension within the regulations. Not to mention significantly more fuel used in the long run. Professionals manage traction by their driving skills, not by car's traction control and gimmicks.

Now if you want to put priority on practicality AWD was and is always the answer since audi quattro proved that in German winters. I believe M3's target back in the 90s and early 00s was making Ferrari and porsche equivalents, but the brand has since diluted to follow Mercedes examples.
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