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      07-05-2019, 03:37 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 530iDriver View Post
BMW has the FWD 1 series sedan in China, Mexico and other overseas markets.
Correct, and that's the point of my post.

BMW has other models that they could be building or importing to the US but have chosen not to for various reasons.

1)- prior generation 1er 3dr hatchback and 5 dr models left in Europe.

2)- prior generation- no E8x 1 er sedan

3)- 1 series sedan made for China only

4) 2 series F87 - no sedan model

5) 2 series sedan in Mexico - A late response to robust market sales of CLA has caused BMW to try and catch up here... BMW is bringing over a single version... no hot rod models.. - still short shrift.

in other words... BMW has lost market share in the US (particularly to Mercedes) ... as they have transferred their focus to X models and large sedans and declined to bring any compact sedans or hatchbacks to the US market.
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      07-05-2019, 03:38 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by rjd598 View Post
“After four years as CEO, I want to seek new challenges and apply my extensive international experience in new tasks and projects."

You mean mess up another company? Automakers beware of this guy’s resume.
LOL, looks like "Bill Warren Getty Jobs III" has come amongst us!
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      07-05-2019, 03:41 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanBMW View Post
Just bring the M3 CSL back to the market, that's all I'm asking
Oh please not this shit again....
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      07-05-2019, 03:52 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by DarkstarZero View Post
This is good. I've not seen anything industry leading out of bmw in the last 4 years. Except maybe grill size.
LMAO
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      07-05-2019, 04:02 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nik14 View Post
The downturn started before Kruger, so he should not take the blame for that.
Of course not but it doesn't matter, they are effectively paid to take the blame hence they have contracts that say if you take the blame we'll give you X millions (because we know it's not going to be your fault)

Very few, baring a few visionaries like Gates/Jobs/Getty/Rockefeller/Buffett/Ford/Carnegie etc...have the gift these other guys are just employees after all, they are very clever and well paid but let's not confuse the two.
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      07-05-2019, 04:02 PM   #50
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Driven the Company into the ground. Rubbish design language, indecisive on electric, far too many niches

I'm a buyer of BMW's over 40 years and there is nothing in current range that I find desirable
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      07-05-2019, 04:03 PM   #51
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Funny, I just saw the German news and they claim no successor has been chosen.......
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      07-05-2019, 04:15 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wills2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by nik14 View Post
The downturn started before Kruger, so he should not take the blame for that.
Of course not but it doesn't matter, they are effectively paid to take the blame hence they have contracts that say if you take the blame we'll give you X millions (because we know it's not going to be your fault)

Very few, baring a few visionaries like Gates/Jobs/Getty/Rockefeller/Buffett/Ford/Carnegie etc...have the gift these other guys are just employees after all, they are very clever and well paid but let's not confuse the two.
We're talking about two different things.

Take the blame in reduced profits during his term, yes.

Take the blame for subpar vehicles like the the F30, E60 and F10 that were before his term, No. Maybe as a the chief accept responsibility for BMW's prior shortcomings, but not take the blame.

Should Nadella take the blame that Ballmer blew it on mobility? No way. And really he should only acknowledge it insofar as the company blew it. As the chief he does not have to acknowledge personal responsibility.
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      07-05-2019, 05:09 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nik14 View Post
We're talking about two different things.

Take the blame in reduced profits during his term, yes.

Take the blame for subpar vehicles like the the F30, E60 and F10 that were before his term, No. Maybe as a the chief accept responsibility for BMW's prior shortcomings, but not take the blame.

Should Nadella take the blame that Ballmer blew it on mobility? No way. And really he should only acknowledge it insofar as the company blew it. As the chief he does not have to acknowledge personal responsibility.
Nadella doesn't take the blame for Ballmer spending billions on mobile and effectively throwing it in the bin, because cloud.

Krueger has no cloud.

But that doesn't change a thing, you get paid the dollar to take the blame and they are well rewarded regardless of the outcome, give me the job and blame me for everything, I'd cope.

I agreed with you that it isn't his fault but that's how it works at that level, you also get paid to be the "face" and he's struggled in that regard and no one forced him into the position.
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      07-05-2019, 05:26 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wills2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by nik14 View Post
We're talking about two different things.

Take the blame in reduced profits during his term, yes.

Take the blame for subpar vehicles like the the F30, E60 and F10 that were before his term, No. Maybe as a the chief accept responsibility for BMW's prior shortcomings, but not take the blame.

Should Nadella take the blame that Ballmer blew it on mobility? No way. And really he should only acknowledge it insofar as the company blew it. As the chief he does not have to acknowledge personal responsibility.
Nadella doesn't take the blame for Ballmer spending billions on mobile and effectively throwing it in the bin, because cloud.

Krueger has no cloud.

But that doesn't change a thing, you get paid the dollar to take the blame and they are well rewarded regardless of the outcome, give me the job and blame me for everything, I'd cope.

I agreed with you that it isn't his fault but that's how it works at that level, you also get paid to be the "face" and he's struggled in that regard and no one forced him into the position.
I think you missed my post and what I was responding to. It was about BMW moving away from driver centric vehicles. That predated Kruger and I said he does not take the blame for that. And I was saying under his watch some of those things partially redressed.

Driver centric cars probably is of little import to the board. Probably being behind in electric and driverless cars plus the threat of driver sharing platforms is top of the mind. Not to mention some diminished margins of late.

So we were talking about driver centric cars like e46/e39 v bland editions like the f30/f10, not the broader and more pertinent issues that are of concern to BMW investors and the board. In that scope, the move of BMW away from driver centric cars, which predated Kruger, he does not take the blame.

On Ballmer, he dismissed mobility entirely before throwing money at it late when the battle was already lost.

There is an opinion article on Kruger by the way in Bloomberg on May 22 that takes a different view from the board. It was an interesting take. Note I am not saying I agree with the article.
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      07-05-2019, 06:27 PM   #55
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He's over. Good luck to new CEO, Zipse..
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      07-05-2019, 07:40 PM   #56
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You all are going to be disappointed if you somehow think BMW will "get back to its roots"

That's in the past and BMW knows what sells.
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      07-05-2019, 08:02 PM   #57
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You guys think that this guy personally oversees the design of every model, as if he'd design the interior, exterior and then drive and develop them on the Nurburgring.

He was a CEO. He speaks numbers and makes decisions according to them. His responsibility is to sell BMW cars while sticking to the ethos of the manufacturer if possible. But if stupid SUV-Coupes sell a lot, then guess what mates, that's what BMW is gonna focus on. The market hated Bangle's designs, so guess what, every BMW is boring now. And so on and so forth.

Also remember that BMW might be successful, but it doesnt have the massive means of the VW Group or Mercedes, both of which have the budget of a small country and yet it is expected to rival Audi, Mercedes and sometimes Porsche.
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      07-05-2019, 09:13 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nik14 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
I guess the rumors were true.

Hopefully the new CEO will push BMW to be more focused on driver's cars again.
The downturn started before Kruger, so he should not take the blame for that. Under his watch some of the earlier missteps were partially redressed . For instance the G20 is an improvement over the F30. The current 5 is a better driver's car than the former one. The G01 is pretty good as a driver's SUV.

As for BMW returning to its roots with the driver's focus some of us wish for, I'd say fat chance. BMW, and all auto makers have way too much to worry about with electric cars, driverless cars, and the potential that fewer may want or need cars as services like Uber flourish.

Not to mention that BMW has dramatically increased the number of vehicles delivered by making their cars appeal to a wider audience. With all these changes in the auto industry and the substantial investment they demand, BMW will not be able to cater to a niche, albeit very loyal, customer group.
Sorry...I haven't seen any return of BMW to its roots. I see them drifting further and further away every month. AWD M cars with no manual opinion? FWD entry level BMWs?

I see BMW drifting towards becoming Audi Jr. at the moment and it's really quite troubling. The brand seems lost in the pursuit of sales.

The sole bright hope is the M2 and it's still too complicated and heavy.

I hope there is a retro-lightweight resurrection in the next few years a throwback sports coupe but I'm not betting on it based on what I'm seeing.
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      07-05-2019, 09:44 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrgunfun View Post
I don't expect any huge change under this new guy either.
So much negative to talk about BMW nowadays.
Hope BMW finds its mojo back from the E46, E39 days.
I hope not. G20 and G30 are much better than E46 and E39.
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      07-05-2019, 09:52 PM   #60
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hopefully this new dude has some creativity.
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      07-05-2019, 10:05 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by 10" View Post
Sorry...I haven't seen any return of BMW to its roots. I see them drifting further and further away every month. AWD M cars with no manual opinion? FWD entry level BMWs?

I see BMW drifting towards becoming Audi Jr. at the moment and it's really quite troubling. The brand seems lost in the pursuit of sales.

The sole bright hope is the M2 and it's still too complicated and heavy.

I hope there is a retro-lightweight resurrection in the next few years a throwback sports coupe but I'm not betting on it based on what I'm seeing.
BMW has been in the pursuit of sales since its inception just like every other for profit company in the world. BMW M2 is simple an light, and all BMWs are the lightest, most driver oriented cars in their classes as of 2019.

BMW has always been a brand that designs and manufactures driver oriented luxury vehicles that are filled with cutting edge tech, not Lotus like super light cars. Very old BMWs were lighter, because all European cars were lighter, because refinement and safety didnít exist.

The interesting thing is that G20 is really light compared to competition: For instance,G20 330i is about 350 lbs lighter than C300. E30 was not even 150 lbs lighter than E190.
In context, BMWs are lighter than before relative to competition.
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      07-05-2019, 10:09 PM   #62
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hopefully this new dude has some creativity.
Do people like creativity here? I feel like people just like the same exact classic BMW shape. Anything creative like I3, M340i grills, large grills and thin lights like 7 series, or different design like Z4 are detested by whiners.
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      07-05-2019, 10:37 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by AD18 View Post
If this past year is anything to go by, I can't say I would be in agreement with many of his decisions, especially looking at what BMW has become/is becoming. He's sent the company many of us love downhill.

I'd prefer to see more focus on pushing the engineering that goes into the cars, there have been too many cost cutting decisions of late.
The f30 was a cost cutting model and arguably the one that most gave them their current reputation. Hopefully his successor will bring some quality improvements, but this can't all be pinned on one guy. BMW has been actively working to cash in on brand equity for a decade now.
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      07-05-2019, 10:51 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
What a spineless thing to say ‼️

Let's see you be CEO of such a multi faceted company
Most are clueless when it comes to decision making at the top. It's never the sole decision of the CEO.
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      07-05-2019, 11:03 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
What a spineless thing to say ‼️

Let's see you be CEO of such a multi faceted company
Most are clueless when it comes to decision making at the top. It's never the sole decision of the CEO.
Yes indeed.

A constant pressure cooker and they're always the fall-guy.
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      07-05-2019, 11:39 PM   #66
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This is the right move, Mr. Krüger completely played the lead BMW had concerning electric cars. Which is unacceptable in this day and age.
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