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      07-06-2019, 12:33 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by rjd598 View Post
"After four years as CEO, I want to seek new challenges and apply my extensive international experience in new tasks and projects."

You mean mess up another company? Automakers beware of this guy's resume.
What a spineless thing to say ‼️

Let's see you be CEO of such a multi faceted company
People who say that don’t have a clue about working in large companies or high pressure jobs.

Ignorance is blisssssss
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      07-06-2019, 05:12 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Mrgunfun View Post
I don't expect any huge change under this new guy either.
So much negative to talk about BMW nowadays.
Hope BMW finds its mojo back from the E46, E39 days.
I hope not. G20 and G30 are much better than E46 and E39.
LOL. Thanks for the morning laugh!
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      07-06-2019, 05:20 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by 10" View Post
Sorry...I haven't seen any return of BMW to its roots. I see them drifting further and further away every month. AWD M cars with no manual opinion? FWD entry level BMWs?

I see BMW drifting towards becoming Audi Jr. at the moment and it's really quite troubling. The brand seems lost in the pursuit of sales.

The sole bright hope is the M2 and it's still too complicated and heavy.

I hope there is a retro-lightweight resurrection in the next few years a throwback sports coupe but I'm not betting on it based on what I'm seeing.
BMW has been in the pursuit of sales since its inception just like every other for profit company in the world. BMW M2 is simple an light, and all BMWs are the lightest, most driver oriented cars in their classes as of 2019.

BMW has always been a brand that designs and manufactures driver oriented luxury vehicles that are filled with cutting edge tech, not Lotus like super light cars. Very old BMWs were lighter, because all European cars were lighter, because refinement and safety didn't exist.

The interesting thing is that G20 is really light compared to competition: For instance,G20 330i is about 350 lbs lighter than C300. E30 was not even 150 lbs lighter than E190.
In context, BMWs are lighter than before relative to competition.
Lighter and yet more boring. Driver centric cars is not about one parameter; it's about these cars solely being about driving and sticking to a philosophy.

In the past even a base 318i was a phenomenal car to drive. Didn't need to be fast to be good. If you go now and get into an 'entry' level BMW it is not going to be good at all. Current cars are numb and geared towards a customer base that puts emphasis on brand and badge over all else.

It's not BMW's fault that they are gearing their cars towards a customer base who cares more about superficial things like the badge; however they did encourage this customer base to form by wanting volume over profits.
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      07-06-2019, 05:43 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SchwarzerReiter View Post
You guys think that this guy personally oversees the design of every model, as if he'd design the interior, exterior and then drive and develop them on the Nurburgring.

He was a CEO. He speaks numbers and makes decisions according to them. His responsibility is to sell BMW cars while sticking to the ethos of the manufacturer if possible. But if stupid SUV-Coupes sell a lot, then guess what mates, that's what BMW is gonna focus on. The market hated Bangle's designs, so guess what, every BMW is boring now. And so on and so forth.

Also remember that BMW might be successful, but it doesnt have the massive means of the VW Group or Mercedes, both of which have the budget of a small country and yet it is expected to rival Audi, Mercedes and sometimes Porsche.
Why would BMW have lower budget than Mercedes?

They are pretty much the same size and sale similar number of vehicles.
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      07-06-2019, 07:11 AM   #71
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If sales are increasing what's the big deal?
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      07-06-2019, 07:13 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by 10" View Post
Lighter and yet more boring. Driver centric cars is not about one parameter; it's about these cars solely being about driving and sticking to a philosophy.

In the past even a base 318i was a phenomenal car to drive. Didn't need to be fast to be good. If you go now and get into an 'entry' level BMW it is not going to be good at all. Current cars are numb and geared towards a customer base that puts emphasis on brand and badge over all else.

It's not BMW's fault that they are gearing their cars towards a customer base who cares more about superficial things like the badge; however they did encourage this customer base to form by wanting volume over profits.
Actually, it’s the opposite. In the 80s and 90s, most people considered cars to be more of an identity, a sign for wealth and prestige. Now, people care less about branding. That’s why BMWs need to be better than ever, and they are.
That’s why the amount of engineering and design going to these vehicles are exponentially more than ever. That is why saying that “Oh BMWs are just branding now” is a misplaced insult to the engineers.
50% 50% weight distribution, usage and development of composite materials and carbon fiber, safety, engines that can give you sub 5 seconds 0-60 times while doing 35 mpg, incredibly capable infotainment systems, amazing smoothness and refinement all around the range, big SUVs that can stay flat in fast corners... Engineers from the past can only dream of these things. And old cars are more about brand, new ones are more about engineering.
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      07-06-2019, 07:24 AM   #73
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Bring back naturally aspirated engines, hydraulic steering, round halos, and round analogue gauges.
Without this, the driving engagement and passion are but a rapidly fading distant memory.
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      07-06-2019, 07:27 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laki021 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SchwarzerReiter View Post
You guys think that this guy personally oversees the design of every model, as if he'd design the interior, exterior and then drive and develop them on the Nurburgring.

He was a CEO. He speaks numbers and makes decisions according to them. His responsibility is to sell BMW cars while sticking to the ethos of the manufacturer if possible. But if stupid SUV-Coupes sell a lot, then guess what mates, that's what BMW is gonna focus on. The market hated Bangle's designs, so guess what, every BMW is boring now. And so on and so forth.

Also remember that BMW might be successful, but it doesnt have the massive means of the VW Group or Mercedes, both of which have the budget of a small country and yet it is expected to rival Audi, Mercedes and sometimes Porsche.
Why would BMW have lower budget than Mercedes?

They are pretty much the same size and sale similar number of vehicles.
Mercedes is bigger it sells truck (18 wheeler) commercial van as well
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      07-06-2019, 07:49 AM   #75
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That's small comparing to auto business, plus that also requires separate R&D budget. On the other hand BMW sells more cars, since Mini and RR are part of BMW group.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmer456 View Post
If sales are increasing what's the big deal?
The profit is falling.
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      07-06-2019, 07:52 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Bemo View Post
Bring back naturally aspirated engines, hydraulic steering, round halos, and round analogue gauges.
Without this, the driving engagement and passion are but a rapidly fading distant memory.
Stick to your old school E-chassis Bimmers.
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      07-06-2019, 07:53 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clee1982 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laki021 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SchwarzerReiter View Post
You guys think that this guy personally oversees the design of every model, as if he'd design the interior, exterior and then drive and develop them on the Nurburgring.

He was a CEO. He speaks numbers and makes decisions according to them. His responsibility is to sell BMW cars while sticking to the ethos of the manufacturer if possible. But if stupid SUV-Coupes sell a lot, then guess what mates, that's what BMW is gonna focus on. The market hated Bangle's designs, so guess what, every BMW is boring now. And so on and so forth.

Also remember that BMW might be successful, but it doesnt have the massive means of the VW Group or Mercedes, both of which have the budget of a small country and yet it is expected to rival Audi, Mercedes and sometimes Porsche.
Why would BMW have lower budget than Mercedes?

They are pretty much the same size and sale similar number of vehicles.
Mercedes is bigger it sells truck (18 wheeler) commercial van as well
Buses, vans trucks you name it. And that hasn't made Mercedes Benz any less desirable over the decades.
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      07-06-2019, 07:55 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10" View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortexiphan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrgunfun View Post
I don't expect any huge change under this new guy either.
So much negative to talk about BMW nowadays.
Hope BMW finds its mojo back from the E46, E39 days.
I hope not. G20 and G30 are much better than E46 and E39.
LOL. Thanks for the morning laugh!
From the stand point of driving dynamics, engineering, safety, technology and quality any G-Series BMW will be leagues above any E-series BMW conceived 20-25 years ago.

Who wants to deal with leaky power steering hoses and failed power steering pumps?
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      07-06-2019, 09:02 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10" View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by nik14 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
I guess the rumors were true.

Hopefully the new CEO will push BMW to be more focused on driver's cars again.
The downturn started before Kruger, so he should not take the blame for that. Under his watch some of the earlier missteps were partially redressed . For instance the G20 is an improvement over the F30. The current 5 is a better driver's car than the former one. The G01 is pretty good as a driver's SUV.

As for BMW returning to its roots with the driver's focus some of us wish for, I'd say fat chance. BMW, and all auto makers have way too much to worry about with electric cars, driverless cars, and the potential that fewer may want or need cars as services like Uber flourish.

Not to mention that BMW has dramatically increased the number of vehicles delivered by making their cars appeal to a wider audience. With all these changes in the auto industry and the substantial investment they demand, BMW will not be able to cater to a niche, albeit very loyal, customer group.
Sorry...I haven't seen any return of BMW to its roots. I see them drifting further and further away every month. AWD M cars with no manual opinion? FWD entry level BMWs?

I see BMW drifting towards becoming Audi Jr. at the moment and it's really quite troubling. The brand seems lost in the pursuit of sales.

The sole bright hope is the M2 and it's still too complicated and heavy.

I hope there is a retro-lightweight resurrection in the next few years a throwback sports coupe but I'm not betting on it based on what I'm seeing.
I'm with you 100% on the size and weight of cars and just sheer handling. BMW is never going to return to that. I said they partially redressed some issues in the G20 and more recent models. They are better than their immediate predecessors like the F30.

When my F30 lease was done 2 years back, I actually bought an E46. I recall after test driving the G20, I thought my E46 is much better than this and I told the CA as much. Eventually, after a couple months, I decided to make the switch from the E46 to G20 because I wanted a newer car with some of the extra amenities. The G20 is a very good car, but no it does not handle like an E46.
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      07-06-2019, 09:05 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 530iDriver View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10" View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortexiphan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrgunfun View Post
I don't expect any huge change under this new guy either.
So much negative to talk about BMW nowadays.
Hope BMW finds its mojo back from the E46, E39 days.
I hope not. G20 and G30 are much better than E46 and E39.
LOL. Thanks for the morning laugh!
From the stand point of driving dynamics, engineering, safety, technology and quality any G-Series BMW will be leagues above any E-series BMW conceived 20-25 years ago.

Who wants to deal with leaky power steering hoses and failed power steering pumps?
You also have to consider weight and size. Larger, heavier cars do not handle as well. And in terms of feel, the electric steering, as yet, cannot match the feel of hydraulic steering. And of course those older naturally aspirated inline 6's were a gem. Maybe BMW's turbos don't have as much turbo lag as others', but they still have turbo lag, and sometimes it shows up when you really need instant boost.

The safety, technology and quality, of course, is worlds ahead.
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      07-06-2019, 10:43 AM   #81
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I drove the M5 Competition during the M Town tour event.
Wow - i was really disappointed in this car.

Is it Fast - hell yes. But there is no sensation of speed. Engine noise is muted and exhaust sound is just not great. My F80 M3 Comp is more raw, agile with way better steering feel.
I’m not sure why this new M5 is getting decent reviews - to me it felt like a big, fast, disconnected, luxury car. The auto transmission is slower than DCT and doesn’t bang through gears like i can on my M3.

The E9x cars were the last great ones. Still had pure driving character and decent modern technology.
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      07-06-2019, 10:53 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by Laki021 View Post
Why would BMW have lower budget than Mercedes?

They are pretty much the same size and sale similar number of vehicles.
Because these companies dont only make money from selling cars, but from races, merchandise, etc. Mercedes also has trucks, vans, buses and everything in between. Wikipedia says they have about double the revenue of BMW.
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      07-06-2019, 10:56 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bemo View Post
Bring back naturally aspirated engines, hydraulic steering, round halos, and round analogue gauges.
Without this, the driving engagement and passion are but a rapidly fading distant memory.
That wont happen. The EU is forcing manufacturers to downsize their engines, the new self driving technologies force electric steering, and all the safety regulations and new technologies add weight.
Also, everytime you see a review where they go about how X car has 1 more centimeter of leg room as opposed to the other, it leads to a size race. Nowadays the 3 series is like the 5 series of a few years back. Just buy the 2 series i guess. Or you could always buy an old BMW.
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      07-06-2019, 12:14 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nik14 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 530iDriver View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10" View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortexiphan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrgunfun View Post
I don't expect any huge change under this new guy either.
So much negative to talk about BMW nowadays.
Hope BMW finds its mojo back from the E46, E39 days.
I hope not. G20 and G30 are much better than E46 and E39.
LOL. Thanks for the morning laugh!
From the stand point of driving dynamics, engineering, safety, technology and quality any G-Series BMW will be leagues above any E-series BMW conceived 20-25 years ago.

Who wants to deal with leaky power steering hoses and failed power steering pumps?
You also have to consider weight and size. Larger, heavier cars do not handle as well. And in terms of feel, the electric steering, as yet, cannot match the feel of hydraulic steering. And of course those older naturally aspirated inline 6's were a gem. Maybe BMW's turbos don't have as much turbo lag as others', but they still have turbo lag, and sometimes it shows up when you really need instant boost.

The safety, technology and quality, of course, is worlds ahead.
But the added weight gives those 5 star NCAP ratings.

People demand multiple passive and active safety systems that did not exist or were widely available 20+ years ago.

People want and demand technology in the form of electronic gizmos and infotainment systems which add weight, complexity and cost.

People demand and experience silent cabins so there are added materials and weight.

I honestly don't believe that BMW would be able to sell today an E46 or E39 in their original release state. At least not to a wider audience.
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      07-06-2019, 12:43 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 530iDriver View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by nik14 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 530iDriver View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10" View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortexiphan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrgunfun View Post
I don't expect any huge change under this new guy either.
So much negative to talk about BMW nowadays.
Hope BMW finds its mojo back from the E46, E39 days.
I hope not. G20 and G30 are much better than E46 and E39.
LOL. Thanks for the morning laugh!
From the stand point of driving dynamics, engineering, safety, technology and quality any G-Series BMW will be leagues above any E-series BMW conceived 20-25 years ago.

Who wants to deal with leaky power steering hoses and failed power steering pumps?
You also have to consider weight and size. Larger, heavier cars do not handle as well. And in terms of feel, the electric steering, as yet, cannot match the feel of hydraulic steering. And of course those older naturally aspirated inline 6's were a gem. Maybe BMW's turbos don't have as much turbo lag as others', but they still have turbo lag, and sometimes it shows up when you really need instant boost.

The safety, technology and quality, of course, is worlds ahead.
But the added weight gives those 5 star NCAP ratings.

People demand multiple passive and active safety systems that did not exist or were widely available 20+ years ago.

People want and demand technology in the form of electronic gizmos and infotainment systems which add weight, complexity and cost.

People demand and experience silent cabins so there are added materials and weight.

I honestly don't believe that BMW would be able to sell today an E46 or E39 in their original release state. At least not to a wider audience.
Yeah but the 500 or so E chassis diehards (including me) that lurk on this forum would buy them in a flat second. Isn't that enough for it to make financial sense for BMW?
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      07-06-2019, 12:50 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nik14 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 530iDriver View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by nik14 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 530iDriver View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10" View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortexiphan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrgunfun View Post
I don't expect any huge change under this new guy either.
So much negative to talk about BMW nowadays.
Hope BMW finds its mojo back from the E46, E39 days.
I hope not. G20 and G30 are much better than E46 and E39.
LOL. Thanks for the morning laugh!
From the stand point of driving dynamics, engineering, safety, technology and quality any G-Series BMW will be leagues above any E-series BMW conceived 20-25 years ago.

Who wants to deal with leaky power steering hoses and failed power steering pumps?
You also have to consider weight and size. Larger, heavier cars do not handle as well. And in terms of feel, the electric steering, as yet, cannot match the feel of hydraulic steering. And of course those older naturally aspirated inline 6's were a gem. Maybe BMW's turbos don't have as much turbo lag as others', but they still have turbo lag, and sometimes it shows up when you really need instant boost.

The safety, technology and quality, of course, is worlds ahead.
But the added weight gives those 5 star NCAP ratings.

People demand multiple passive and active safety systems that did not exist or were widely available 20+ years ago.

People want and demand technology in the form of electronic gizmos and infotainment systems which add weight, complexity and cost.

People demand and experience silent cabins so there are added materials and weight.

I honestly don't believe that BMW would be able to sell today an E46 or E39 in their original release state. At least not to a wider audience.
Yeah but the 500 or so E chassis diehards (including me) that lurk on this forum would buy them in a flat second. Isn't that enough for it to make financial sense for BMW?
We all wish right?
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      07-06-2019, 01:14 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bemo View Post
Bring back naturally aspirated engines, hydraulic steering, round halos, and round analogue gauges.
Without this, the driving engagement and passion are but a rapidly fading distant memory.
So ditch the amazing laser lights and bring back dimmer lights, slower and less efficient engines that gives half the power burns twice the gas, and analogue gages that even Kias don’t have at this point. So brilliant! This way BMW can be acquired by VW or Tata in a couple of years!

I hope BMW doesn’t let people who think like this in the building.
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      07-06-2019, 01:19 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by SchwarzerReiter View Post
That wont happen. The EU is forcing manufacturers to downsize their engines, the new self driving technologies force electric steering, and all the safety regulations and new technologies add weight.
Also, everytime you see a review where they go about how X car has 1 more centimeter of leg room as opposed to the other, it leads to a size race. Nowadays the 3 series is like the 5 series of a few years back. Just buy the 2 series i guess. Or you could always buy an old BMW.
Forget EU. Who would buy a car that has candle like lights, 6 cylinder “gem(!)” of engines that are slower than Golf GTI and less efficient than X7 M50i?
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