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      09-13-2019, 10:09 AM   #903
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Originally Posted by av.7447 View Post
lol, if I ever be in SoCal I want a ride along! 😎
No way....has Brazil really bought the State of California ?
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      09-13-2019, 08:33 PM   #904
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Originally Posted by Croatian test driver View Post
The M3 E90 used the coupe front end as well.
I always thought it was weird that the E92 vs E90 looked way more different than the F32 vs F30. I thought they changed the name to 4 series so they could differentiate the products, but they made them look even more similar. Then Van Hooydonk said in an interview in 2017 or 2018 that they wanted to differentiate the 3/4 series and the other models even more. I think they missed a chance to introduce people to a more radical design with the F32 so people didn't freak out so much about the new concept.
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      09-13-2019, 09:36 PM   #905
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No way....has Brazil really bought the State of California ?
Nope. Good thing I'm in SoCal..........as my previous posts have stated. You clearly overlooked that. I also wouldn't be talking about Southwest airlines if I lived in Brazil, since Southwest does not fly to, nor provide services in, Brazil.
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      09-14-2019, 01:30 PM   #906
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I think some of the difference in reactions to the front end on the new M3 is based on age and perspective. I just turned 50 years old. I have wanted an M3 since I saw the original one while in college in the late 1980s. I came very close to getting an E46 but didn't. After owning an E90 335xi for 9 years, I finally was I able to get a new F80 in 2016 that I ordered. I love the car. I think it's the best-looking M3 since the E46. While we all have had some complaints about various attributes of the F80, the looks of the car is not one of them. It is beautiful.

When I bought my car in 2016 I had planned to consider trading it for a G80 when it came out next year. My car will be paid off next spring so the timing was pretty good. When I saw the early renderings of the G80, they were all based on the new M340. I was not sold on that design so I had pretty much made up my mind that I would just keep my car for the foreseeable future. But, I still would have considered the new one based on what I had seen up to that point. Having now seen the new renderings with the hideous looking grill and front end design, there is no way that I could even consider that car.

I'm with the group who feels that the new design should be evolutionary. Especially considering how great the current M3 already looks. We all would have been happy with some changes to the exhaust sound, suspension, steering feel, and an updated interior. But I don't know anyone who was unhappy with the way the current M3 looked. It was already a stretch for many of us to accept a design based on the new 3 series. But the new renderings are just insane. No BMW fan has been complaining about the classic kidney grill look and the distinctive headlight design that has always been unique to BMW. As an earlier poster pointed out, just like the 911, the evolutionary changes over time is what we expect. I am totally baffled as to why BMW would abandon much of what has made the M3 the icon it is by putting out a car that looks like this. Maybe I'm just an old guy resistant to change but it appears I'm not alone in my thinking.

If the new M3 looks like this, I'll be looking at Audi when I trade my current car. I'd rather have something too conservative and evolutionary than what BMW has adopted.
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      09-24-2019, 12:14 PM   #907
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This rendering looks much better and possibly acceptable if it comes out that way.

BUT where would a US license plate go? will look horrible on that grill.
20 years I haven't had one (even though its a law in my state) got pulled over last week in my M3 for the first time ever! got a warning ticket for no front plate (all he pulled me over for).
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      09-24-2019, 12:53 PM   #908
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This rendering looks much better and possibly acceptable if it comes out that way.

BUT where would a US license plate go? will look horrible on that grill.
20 years I haven't had one (even though its a law in my state) got pulled over last week in my M3 for the first time ever! got a warning ticket for no front plate (all he pulled me over for).
Maybe it looks better because it has a front plate to break up the big grill!
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      09-26-2019, 08:01 PM   #909
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This rendering looks much better and possibly acceptable if it comes out that way.

BUT where would a US license plate go? will look horrible on that grill.
20 years I haven't had one (even though its a law in my state) got pulled over last week in my M3 for the first time ever! got a warning ticket for no front plate (all he pulled me over for).
It looks like a disfigured mantis.

I would much prefer a disfigured mantis with the concept 4 lights than these dumbfounded headlights.
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      09-26-2019, 08:48 PM   #910
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Originally Posted by Bt31st View Post
I think some of the difference in reactions to the front end on the new M3 is based on age and perspective. I just turned 50 years old. I have wanted an M3 since I saw the original one while in college in the late 1980s. I came very close to getting an E46 but didn't. After owning an E90 335xi for 9 years, I finally was I able to get a new F80 in 2016 that I ordered. I love the car. I think it's the best-looking M3 since the E46. While we all have had some complaints about various attributes of the F80, the looks of the car is not one of them. It is beautiful.

When I bought my car in 2016 I had planned to consider trading it for a G80 when it came out next year. My car will be paid off next spring so the timing was pretty good. When I saw the early renderings of the G80, they were all based on the new M340. I was not sold on that design so I had pretty much made up my mind that I would just keep my car for the foreseeable future. But, I still would have considered the new one based on what I had seen up to that point. Having now seen the new renderings with the hideous looking grill and front end design, there is no way that I could even consider that car.

I'm with the group who feels that the new design should be evolutionary. Especially considering how great the current M3 already looks. We all would have been happy with some changes to the exhaust sound, suspension, steering feel, and an updated interior. But I don't know anyone who was unhappy with the way the current M3 looked. It was already a stretch for many of us to accept a design based on the new 3 series. But the new renderings are just insane. No BMW fan has been complaining about the classic kidney grill look and the distinctive headlight design that has always been unique to BMW. As an earlier poster pointed out, just like the 911, the evolutionary changes over time is what we expect. I am totally baffled as to why BMW would abandon much of what has made the M3 the icon it is by putting out a car that looks like this. Maybe I'm just an old guy resistant to change but it appears I'm not alone in my thinking.

If the new M3 looks like this, I'll be looking at Audi when I trade my current car. I'd rather have something too conservative and evolutionary than what BMW has adopted.
I don't know if age factors in as much, but it's possible. I'm only a decade younger than you and the look has grown on me. It's not pretty or elegant, BUT it is bold and daring. It's a really aggressive look. I think it'll mod well too.
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      09-27-2019, 04:02 PM   #911
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So I’m at the dealer today having some service done. While waiting I took a walk through the showroom. Some for me new cars were there as the X3M.

Here’s the thing, there was nothing there that look special, nothing that made me go WOW I want it. Everything looks nice but generic and mass produced in the boring way. One exception was the M5 comp. It has that dense well packaged look to it that signals good engineering, quality and toned muscle. It’s not a small car but it’s not bad for a mid-size luxury sedan. The M850i coupe has the right ingredients but is let down by it’s loooong body, it looks poorly packaged like an American coupe. Way too long hood and rear, if it was 25% smaller with a more aggressive grill it would be awesome.

I have the same issue when browsing a Porsche dealer, the cars are now looking generic, boring and poorly packaged, just not special.

The 4 series concept is different and look very promising and the G80 could possibly as well.

There is now a Silverstone E90 M3 in the service pickup area and THAT still look special, the functional hood vents with the supreme S65 underneath coupled with the compact front end make it look really densely packaged and well, special.
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      09-27-2019, 11:21 PM   #912
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Originally Posted by solstice View Post
So I’m at the dealer today having some service done. While waiting I took a walk through the showroom. Some for me new cars were there as the X3M.

Here’s the thing, there was nothing there that look special, nothing that made me go WOW I want it. Everything looks nice but generic and mass produced in the boring way. One exception was the M5 comp. It has that dense well packaged look to it that signals good engineering, quality and toned muscle. It’s not a small car but it’s not bad for a mid-size luxury sedan. The M850i coupe has the right ingredients but is let down by it’s loooong body, it looks poorly packaged like an American coupe. Way too long hood and rear, if it was 25% smaller with a more aggressive grill it would be awesome.

I have the same issue when browsing a Porsche dealer, the cars are now looking generic, boring and poorly packaged, just not special.

The 4 series concept is different and look very promising and the G80 could possibly as well.

There is now a Silverstone E90 M3 in the service pickup area and THAT still look special, the functional hood vents with the supreme S65 underneath coupled with the compact front end make it look really densely packaged and well, special.
I couldn't agree more. I found myself having a similar sentiment weeks ago when I took my ///M4 in for service and was provided a G-Series 330i.
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      09-29-2019, 07:44 PM   #913
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As much as I love the F82 aesthetic (danke, Florian Nissl), that new one is going to make my M4 look insta-dated in and out. btw, Lexus has some of the most daring and attractive designs out today. BMW can only wish to replicate what they've come to achieve after staying the course for many, many years to finally deliver the LC and LS.

BMW, thus far, has had some of the most staid design updates almost rivaling Audi's incompetence to come up with something riveting. When I see the new 5 or 7 or X whatever, it's more of the same.

I'm excited for the new M4, but I'm not buying another souped up commuter chassis vehicle again (all Ms, all RSs, most AMGs) - fair play pov.
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      09-29-2019, 07:54 PM   #914
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I like it so much it makes that C8 purchase a no brainer now (or a C7 GS/Z06 for that matter).
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      09-29-2019, 09:10 PM   #915
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I like it so much it makes that C8 purchase a no brainer now (or a C7 GS/Z06 for that matter).
The C7 Z06 is a phenomenal car.
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      09-29-2019, 10:00 PM   #916
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Show me the last time people on Bimmerpost have disapproved the front end of the new M3/M4 by almost 80%.
This is the key - there's similar in kind, and similar in degree.

For example, the guy who ate a few gummi worms out of the grocery store bin is technically the same as the chick who knowingly walks out of Tiffany's wearing $1M earrings. Similar in kind of offence, different in degree.

It's the same with this new design - Yes, this is a design change, there've been past design changes ... but the DEGREE of change is the problem!

It's like Kids in the Hall when the guy redecorated his friend's apartment by adding a demon in the closet:

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Last edited by GrussGott; 09-29-2019 at 11:35 PM..
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      10-09-2019, 10:02 AM   #917
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Originally Posted by Bt31st View Post
I think some of the difference in reactions to the front end on the new M3 is based on age and perspective. I just turned 50 years old. I have wanted an M3 since I saw the original one while in college in the late 1980s. I came very close to getting an E46 but didn't. After owning an E90 335xi for 9 years, I finally was I able to get a new F80 in 2016 that I ordered. I love the car. I think it's the best-looking M3 since the E46. While we all have had some complaints about various attributes of the F80, the looks of the car is not one of them. It is beautiful.

When I bought my car in 2016 I had planned to consider trading it for a G80 when it came out next year. My car will be paid off next spring so the timing was pretty good. When I saw the early renderings of the G80, they were all based on the new M340. I was not sold on that design so I had pretty much made up my mind that I would just keep my car for the foreseeable future. But, I still would have considered the new one based on what I had seen up to that point. Having now seen the new renderings with the hideous looking grill and front end design, there is no way that I could even consider that car.

I'm with the group who feels that the new design should be evolutionary. Especially considering how great the current M3 already looks. We all would have been happy with some changes to the exhaust sound, suspension, steering feel, and an updated interior. But I don't know anyone who was unhappy with the way the current M3 looked. It was already a stretch for many of us to accept a design based on the new 3 series. But the new renderings are just insane. No BMW fan has been complaining about the classic kidney grill look and the distinctive headlight design that has always been unique to BMW. As an earlier poster pointed out, just like the 911, the evolutionary changes over time is what we expect. I am totally baffled as to why BMW would abandon much of what has made the M3 the icon it is by putting out a car that looks like this. Maybe I'm just an old guy resistant to change but it appears I'm not alone in my thinking.

If the new M3 looks like this, I'll be looking at Audi when I trade my current car. I'd rather have something too conservative and evolutionary than what BMW has adopted.
Agreed. For me, the newest edition of the M3 G series, seems to have gone to far off the rails as compared to my 2018 CP with dct. I’m so glad to have gotten one before the G’s come in 2020.

Will it look dated into 2020+, likely so they all do after a while but in this case I’m pretty sure the consensus will be, “look how great they use to look!”
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      10-09-2019, 09:11 PM   #918
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I am way behind the curve in checking out these renderings. I've looked for awhile now, and tried to embrace this new design and am having some trouble doing so. I am sure the tech will be much better than mine, but I have really solidified my liking of the F80.
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      10-10-2019, 11:32 AM   #919
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BMW, if you're listening, please find in your hart, the strength to revise that monstrosity of a grille. Thank you.
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      10-10-2019, 01:57 PM   #920
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BMW, if you're listening, please find in your hart, the strength to revise that monstrosity of a grille. Thank you.
They are listening.....









.....to the future buyers of this car.
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      10-10-2019, 04:23 PM   #921
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They are listening.....









.....to the future buyers of this car.
Are you a future buyer of the next M3 Sedan Clan?
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      10-10-2019, 06:55 PM   #922
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Are you a future buyer of the next M3 Sedan Clan?
Nope. I'll buy an ///M4.....again. FWIW, I'm not the future buyer that I'm referring to. The "future buyer" I'm referring to is the one targeted during the market analysis they did two years ago prior to this car being designed, and the progressive "future buyer" the company is trying to attract at the expense of older buyers who are resistant to change(s).
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      10-17-2019, 08:57 PM   #923
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Nope. I'll buy an ///M4.....again. FWIW, I'm not the future buyer that I'm referring to. The "future buyer" I'm referring to is the one targeted during the market analysis they did two years ago prior to this car being designed, and the progressive "future buyer" the company is trying to attract at the expense of older buyers who are resistant to change(s).
The problem with this thesis is 3 fold:

(1.) There's always normal customer replacement: some try and move on, some age out of certain models, etc, thus any "future buyers" have to be beyond that normal turn-over which is typically pretty hard.

(2.) This is because the buyer personas per age group don't generally change much - thus any design change risks losing the existing personas, so the "future buyer" cohort has to be so large it replaces change-loss; in the product world, that's been typically almost impossible. New Coke is great example - they had to bring back old coke (coke classic!).

(3.) "Future buyer" behavior is unknown - even if you can overcome turn-over loss and design-change loss with the numbers of future buyers, it's unknown whether these buyers are loyal an will stick around or if they'll buy and fly. That's an enormous risk.

If BMW is opening up a new market that's so large they can't not go for it (i.e., China) then the risk may be worth it, but it's an awfully big risk.

With all of that said, us loyal BMW-buyers will probably overlook a design fail after the fact (i.e., not buy the beaver, but also not be dissuaded from buying the post-beaver).

So, if BMW thinks China is big enough opportunity to take a design risk, I could understand that. On the other hand, if they think "future buyer" is in existing markets, then I think they're making a huge mistake and there are reams of examples: New Coke, Crystal Pepsi, McD Arch Deluxe, Frito-lay Wow chips with olestra, Blackberry storm, etc

and lets' not forget that original big grille!

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      10-17-2019, 09:30 PM   #924
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Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
The problem with this thesis is 3 fold:

(1.) There's always normal customer replacement: some try and move on, some age out of certain models, etc, thus any "future buyers" have to be beyond that normal turn-over which is typically pretty hard.

(2.) This is because the buyer personas per age group don't generally change much - thus any design change risks losing the existing personas, so the "future buyer" cohort has to be so large it replaces change-loss; in the product world, that's been typically almost impossible. New Coke is great example - they had to bring back old coke (coke classic!).

(3.) "Future buyer" behavior is unknown - even if you can overcome turn-over loss and design-change loss with the numbers of future buyers, it's unknown whether these buyers are loyal an will stick around or if they'll buy and fly. That's an enormous risk.

If BMW is opening up a new market that's so large they can't not go for it (i.e., China) then the risk may be worth it, but it's an awfully big risk.

With all of that said, us loyal BMW-buyers will probably overlook a design fail after the fact (i.e., not buy the beaver, but also not be dissuaded from buying the post-beaver).

So, if BMW thinks China is big enough opportunity to take a design risk, I could understand that. On the other hand, if they think "future buyer" is in existing markets, then I think they're making a huge mistake and there are reams of examples: New Coke, Crystal Pepsi, McD Arch Deluxe, Frito-lay Wow chips with olestra, Blackberry storm, etc

and lets' not forget that original big grille!


Well it's all supposition at this point, but I'm sure we'll revisit this topic over the next two years to see how BMW fares once these cars are available in various markets.
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