[ovesund]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

Is your 1.4l/100km used solely for merging/passing kick down? And do u stay in hybrid mode, or always in electric mode?

Electric in the city, hybrid (or sport) on the country roads.
Sport when I want to save some battery. You will use the battery even with the engine running in hybrid mode during long drives for stuff like heating and AC to keep the fuel consumption down.

When the car decides to start the ICE I try to keep it running long enough to get it thoroughly warm. That is also one reason why I almost always pt it in sport the last few miles before coming home after a long drive. Doing so gives me enough juice in the battery to drive a short distance even after being fully depleted before.
I really don't want the car to fire up the ICE for the minute it takes me to reverse the car into the garage.

The covid situation has made the 330e an even better match since I haven't really gone anywhere for quite some time. Just a few trips during the summer really (no longer than 400 miles each trip)

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by ovesund

Electric in the city, hybrid (or sport) on the country roads.
Sport when I want to save some battery. You will use the battery even with the engine running in hybrid mode during long drives for stuff like heating and AC to keep the fuel consumption down.

When the car decides to start the ICE I try to keep it running long enough to get it thoroughly warm. That is also one reason why I almost always pt it in sport the last few miles before coming home after a long drive. Doing so gives me enough juice in the battery to drive a short distance even after being fully depleted before.
I really don't want the car to fire up the ICE for the minute it takes me to reverse the car into the garage.

The covid situation has made the 330e an even better match since I haven't really gone anywhere for quite some time. Just a few trips during the summer really (no longer than 400 miles each trip)

That sounds like owning PHEV needs commitment and conviction, e.g. adjust/plan ICE on/off and how long.

On the ICE land, the mild-hybrid on G20 M340i has 48V battery and 11HP electric motor/generator to support ICE off for hwy coasting(<99mph) and below 9mph "glide" to stop. The 48V system can power most of electrical usages of the car. The M340i gets hwy 30+mpg, which is quite good for a 390HP car.

The G20 330i also has dual storage(with lithium and AGM batteries) and gets 42 mpg hwy, my guess is that mild hybrid 330i likely will push past 45+mpg.

[ovesund]

Well, I don't NEED to have it start up in electric, it's just that I have more power available to me while still running on battery
It's just more fun to drive

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by ovesund

Well, I don't NEED to have it start up in electric, it's just that I have more power available to me while still running on battery
It's just more fun to drive

The instant torque of electric motor definitely is more fun.

I did see a clip that says 330e throttle above 40% in electric mode, and above 60% in hybrid mode, will kick in ICE.

Since 330e 0-40 takes 6 seconds in electric mode, so stepping pass 40%(to kick in ICE) may be needed in merging/passing@hwy in your daily driving, right?

Your comment of warming up ICE is quite important, as it feels like both 12kWh battery(routinely going into/out of 10%?) and ICE(kicked in 0-60 when cold) can be stressed a lot.

Is there a way to check 330e 12kWh battery health, similar to Tesla's SoC counter?

[ovesund]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

The instant torque of electric motor definitely is more fun.

I did see a clip that says 330e throttle above 40% in electric mode, and above 60% in hybrid mode, will kick in ICE.

It's the other way around, it will fire up the ICE as soon as you get above 40% in hybrid but will allow you 60% in Electric mode and never start the ICE.
You can floor it and it will still stay in electric as long as you have battery left. When it goes down to 0 in range it will automatically switch to hybrid.

And yeah, overtaking on pure electric takes some planning but since my normal daily driving is inside the city limits that's a non issue for me. Same if I'm on the motorway, I am not really in any rush when overtaking there since there is no incoming traffic.
I wouldn't leave it in electric for any longer distance in those speeds though since that kind of speed (over 65MPH or so) really drains the battery quickly. It feels like you can go "forever" on smaller country roads (speed limit there is normally 45-50MPH) where you also do a lot of regen.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by ovesund

It's the other way around, it will fire up the ICE as soon as you get above 40% in hybrid but will allow you 60% in Electric mode and never start the ICE.
You can floor it and it will still stay in electric as long as you have battery left. When it goes down to 0 in range it will automatically switch to hybrid.

And yeah, overtaking on pure electric takes some planning but since my normal daily driving is inside the city limits that's a non issue for me. Same if I'm on the motorway, I am not really in any rush when overtaking there since there is no incoming traffic.
I wouldn't leave it in electric for any longer distance in those speeds though since that kind of speed (over 65MPH or so) really drains the battery quickly. It feels like you can go "forever" on smaller country roads (speed limit there is normally 45-50MPH) where you also do a lot of regen.

Yeah the local driving conditions are quite different, and friends with PHEV usually uses hybrid mode to zip around with extra HP/lb-ft. Some also drive 330e without plug-in, just like Prius HEV.

BTW the following is an interesting article of BMW PHEV dated 2016(for F30?), but the powertrain mode descriptions likely apply to G20 too.

Specifically, it distinguishes between regen and coasting modes. In short, coasting has no regen since electric motor is off(to improve mileage), while regen is with electric motor in generator mode(negative torque).

So it appears incorrect to assume regen includes coasting. Also, once regen is on, the car slows down due to negative torque(which charges battery).

Also, the hold mode ".... is active when the high voltage battery reaches the minimum allowed state of charge." So my thinking is that, if needed, ECU has to divert some ICE energy to maintain EV battery to be above, say, 5-10%. At the same time, the battery control mode of G20 330e simply allows user to configure the % threshold of the hold mode.

https://x-engineer.org/automotive-en...-architecture/

[ovesund]

I really don't like coasting while driving in populated areas.
Same with my old diesel in eco pro. It feels kind of scary to not slow down at all when lifting the throttle. It might save some fuel in hybrid mode but really, it kind of feels like you lose some control since you can't regulate the speed with the throttle like a normal car. You have to press the brake to even slow down a little.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by ovesund

I really don't like coasting while driving in populated areas.
Same with my old diesel in eco pro. It feels kind of scary to not slow down at all when lifting the throttle. It might save some fuel in hybrid mode but really, it kind of feels like you lose some control since you can't regulate the speed with the throttle like a normal car. You have to press the brake to even slow down a little.

Yeah in PHEV coasting mode(Hybrid mode + Eco Pro?), both ICE and electric motor are not engaged, so there is no negative torque from ICE/electric motor.

So that matches with your experience that brake is needed to slow down.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by eddiehaug

The "using the ICE to charge the battery" thing is really completely optional and not something most people should do, because that really puts a toll on consumption.

The car doesn't charge the battery using the ICE unless that you force it to do so using the "Battery Control" switch. This feature is really meant to be used to maintain a certain level of charge, not really to recharge the battery, even though it's possible to do so.

This clip shows@2:15-2:50 that when 330e is in standard hybrid mode, and with an empty battery, ICE power is used to both provide wheel power AND charge EV battery, with 10.6l/100km(22.2mpg).

@Sport mode and full battery(and spirited driving with eboost/Xtraboost), the usage goes to 13l/100km(18mg).

Obviously when driver uses 330e as intended on short trips with electric mode and restrain from activating ICE, the usage becomes 0.6l/100km.

EDIT: 3rd trip total is 26.4km, so 0.6l/100km implies 0.1608L(0.04248gal), for 2km(1.25miles), or 29.4mpg for that 2km.

These numbers look quite realistic.

So your 30.3mpg can include gasoline burnt to charge empty battery too even Battery Control mode is not selected.

[Greychimp1]

Nice

[eddiehaug]

Long trip today.

Consumption: 45mpg. Trip length: 328 miles.
Temp: 6.5-11 C | 43.7 - 51.8 F
Total distance electric: 102.5 miles
Initial battery charge: 100%
Driving Mode: Adaptive w/Nav

--

[sherlock411]

I've been browsing this forum since I took delivery of my 330e and struggled to find something comprehensive about the mpg of the 330e and how efficient or inefficient it really is. I have done about 3600 miles and covered 1200 or so in electric. In my previous f30 330i my overall average consumption was about 28 mpg. My 330e is showing around 48 mpg since factory. The longest trip I've done so far was approximately 250 miles starting with a full battery and ended up right around 39mpg. This included some areas of stop and go traffic and traveling around 75-80mph. I've come to the conclusion that while you do indeed use less gasoline, economically it's about even when compared to owning a 330i. Now this is based upon California energy costs being what they are. If energy was cheaper it would both be less expensive to run and save fuel at the same time. I do like the car and I'm consistently impressed how smooth the transition from electric to ICE is.

[GM]

I got my current G21 330e in November last year and have charge data from MyBMW app from December and onwards. Since then, I've driven 12213 km on 544 liters of fuel (from the pump) and charged 1108 kWh according to MyBMW app. That yields to an average of 4,5 l/100 km (52.3 mpg) with the help of 1108 kWh from the battery. Worst consumption 7,5 liters/100 (31.4 mpg) km in December on maiden road trip with new studded tires and harsh weather. Longest trip on only electric 63,7 km (39.6 miles) with average speed of 66,3 km/h (41.2 mph).

As for my previous F30 330, average fuel consumption over 80000+ km was 5,5 l/100 km (42.8 mpg, from the pump). I was only able to charge that car at home during the last months of owning that car so I charged whenever possible at work, parking garages, etc. Worst consumption was driving on the autobahn at 7,8 l/100 km (30 mpg). It was consistent at around 6 l/100 km on normal highways without charging.

I'm pretty confident that a 330i or similar would be significantly more expensive fuel wise for me. The reason is that all my short trips around town are more or less all electric now. That means very few cold starts for the ICE engine without running it warm, which in my experience, are the worst in terms of fuel consumption and emissions. Furthermore, short trips without getting an ICE engine to temperature, especially during winter (for us that have winter..), is not very pleasant for the engine.

[gavinwong]

Thought I'd update the thread now that I'm back into regular driving habits in terms of distance I travel per trip. Done a bit more overall distance this month due to moving, but usually getting 45-50km range electric only with the majority of my driving 45km (office to home commute) Mainly using adaptive cruise at 100kmph on the motorway.

[Jjjg20]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

Yeah the local driving conditions are quite different, and friends with PHEV usually uses hybrid mode to zip around with extra HP/lb-ft. Some also drive 330e without plug-in, just like Prius HEV.

BTW the following is an interesting article of BMW PHEV dated 2016(for F30?), but the powertrain mode descriptions likely apply to G20 too.

Specifically, it distinguishes between regen and coasting modes. In short, coasting has no regen since electric motor is off(to improve mileage), while regen is with electric motor in generator mode(negative torque).

So it appears incorrect to assume regen includes coasting. Also, once regen is on, the car slows down due to negative torque(which charges battery).

Also, the hold mode ".... is active when the high voltage battery reaches the minimum allowed state of charge." So my thinking is that, if needed, ECU has to divert some ICE energy to maintain EV battery to be above, say, 5-10%. At the same time, the battery control mode of G20 330e simply allows user to configure the % threshold of the hold mode.

https://x-engineer.org/automotive-en...-architecture/

Wondering if you notice the negative torque in speed and distance when coasting downhill? I'm driving a 2019 330i and am impressed by how long (and fast) the car can coast without stepping on the gas.

My 300i lease ends soon and I have a 330e on order (expected in Nov?). Should I buy out the lease and keep the 330i ($26k USD) or trade it in (w/ about $3-4k equity) for the new (loaded up) 330e ($52k minus trade-in, corporate discount, and loyalty discount)?

Ultimately, the 330e is a compromise for me. I do not like gas prices (Northern California prices😵*&#128171 and would love an electric car (but there are so few EVs on the market, dealers are up-charging, and tax credits have disappeared for the desirable EVs). With the 330e I can zip around the City in electric mode and use hybrid/sport to drive highway commutes.

If I do purchase the 330e, I will most likely trade it in within the first 36 months when/if the EV market calms down (stock increases, up-charges go away, tech develops, etc). Thoughts?

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by Jjjg20

Wondering if you notice the negative torque in speed and distance when coasting downhill? I'm driving a 2019 330i and am impressed by how long (and fast) the car can coast without stepping on the gas.

My 300i lease ends soon and I have a 330e on order (expected in Nov?). Should I buy out the lease and keep the 330i ($26k USD) or trade it in (w/ about $3-4k equity) for the new (loaded up) 330e ($52k minus trade-in, corporate discount, and loyalty discount)?

Ultimately, the 330e is a compromise for me. I do not like gas prices (Northern California prices��*��) and would love an electric car (but there are so few EVs on the market, dealers are up-charging, and tax credits have disappeared for the desirable EVs). With the 330e I can zip around the City in electric mode and use hybrid/sport to drive highway commutes.

If I do purchase the 330e, I will most likely trade it in within the first 36 months when/if the EV market calms down (stock increases, up-charges go away, tech develops, etc). Thoughts?

Re: negative torques@downhill with 330e, do check out post#1 of this review from a EU 330e owner driving through mountainous terrains.

https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1745449

Re: G20 330i's coasting, I think starting from F30 LCI BMW has enabled ZF 8AT coasting(i.e. ZF can enter N)@freeway.

Re: 330e cost savings, u may want to read this thread's real life kWh + gallons needed to run the 330e. If u don't have free solar@home or free charging@work, the 330e may still cost more to operate than 330i esp. in CA with PG&E price gorging + $5-6/gallon of top-tier AKI 91@Costco.

Re: zipping around town in EV-only mode with 330e, do remember the electric motor of 330e is 110HP, and that 110HP does not quite zip around with 4100lb. Once u enable boost mode to zip around, the $5-6/gallon will kick in. Also note that the reduced trunk space and reduced range may affect how u like the car(even for just a few years).

Re: lease end buyout of 2019 330i@$26k, it depends on FMVs with options/packages included. $26k may not be bad for a 330i with known history to u(as 1st-hand owner). One option is to buyout, drive for a few years and wait for next good thing from EV land. This option avoids taking steep depreciation hit with brand new 330e vs. leveling off depreciation hit of 3-year old 330i.

My $0.02.

[Jjjg20]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

Re: negative torques@downhill with 330e, do check out post#1 of this review from a EU 330e owner driving through mountainous terrains.

https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1745449

Re: G20 330i's coasting, I think starting from F30 LCI BMW has enabled ZF 8AT coasting(i.e. ZF can enter N)@freeway.

Re: 330e cost savings, u may want to read this thread's real life kWh + gallons needed to run the 330e. If u don't have free solar@home or free charging@work, the 330e may still cost more to operate than 330i esp. in CA with PG&E price gorging + $5-6/gallon of top-tier AKI 91@Costco.

Re: zipping around town in EV-only mode with 330e, do remember the electric motor of 330e is 110HP, and that 110HP does not quite zip around with 4100lb. Once u enable boost mode to zip around, the $5-6/gallon will kick in. Also note that the reduced trunk space and reduced range may affect how u like the car(even for just a few years).

Re: lease end buyout of 2019 330i@$26k, it depends on FMVs with options/packages included. $26k may not be bad for a 330i with known history to u(as 1st-hand owner). One option is to buyout, drive for a few years and wait for next good thing from EV land. This option avoids taking steep depreciation hit with brand new 330e vs. leveling off depreciation hit of 3-year old 330i.

My $0.02.

Thanks for your thoughtful 2¢

Re. the Norway review was pretty impressive and relates as I cross the Santa Cruz mountains 1-2/week. The recharging to nearly full capacity on the coast sides of the mountain sounds like a plus.

I'm pretty much on the same page as your recommendation - buyout the 330i and wait for the right EV (wish the i3 they sell in China was available here🤷🏻*♂️).

The 330i is a basic model which is another reason why the loaded 330e on order is so appealing (w/ msport pro, dynamic handling, premium pkg, etc.).
$26k is ok for the 330i buyout with only 19k miles on it in 3 (pandemic) years. It's a solid car and I get 29mpg city and highway (a lot of San Francisco driving)…

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by Jjjg20

Thanks for your thoughtful 2¢

Re. the Norway review was pretty impressive and relates as I cross the Santa Cruz mountains 1-2/week. The recharging to nearly full capacity on the coast sides of the mountain sounds like a plus.

I'm pretty much on the same page as your recommendation - buyout the 330i and wait for the right EV (wish the i3 they sell in China was available here����*♂️).

The 330i is a basic model which is another reason why the loaded 330e on order is so appealing (w/ msport pro, dynamic handling, premium pkg, etc.).
$26k is ok for the 330i buyout with only 19k miles on it in 3 (pandemic) years. It's a solid car and I get 29mpg city and highway (a lot of San Francisco driving)…

Thanks for the heads up on i3, BMW really should bring that car to the US.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...3-china-sedan/

I tend to think that EV tech(esp. battery) is still evolving, and replacing a near-new, low-mileage ICE car(esp. a G20 330i) for an EV seems to be (still) an early-adopter move.