[tdma]

Hi all,

I am deciding between a 318i/d, 320i/d and 330e. All touring. Looking for second hand G21 2021-2022 model (not a fan of the new dashboard on the 3-series).

I am currently driving a Mini Countryman S which has about 190pk and in terms of power that is about what I am used to and what I need.
I guess that already discards the 318i with its 150pk?

It is especially hard to decide between the petrol and hybrid versions.
Taking into account all tax benefits, I calculated the 330e would be slightly (2.000-3.000 euros) cheaper than the 320i in spite of its higher acquisition cost.

I would be able to run the 330e charged only about 10-20% of the time.

One thing that has me leaning in favour of the 320i is the bigger fuel tank. On the other hand the 330e would overall be cheaper for a more powerful car.

Are there any technical reasons to favour the 320i over the 330e or vice versa? A more complex hybrid car means more things can break down and higher potential maintenance costs?

Which would you prefer and why?

Thanks!

[SoCalJon]

I own a 330e and love it.

Having said that, it's not for everyone. If you can only charge it 10-20% of the time, I think you will regret the smaller gas tank and trunk. Carrying around a 500 pound uncharged battery will surely have a negative impact on your fuel economy.

The 300e works best for people who can tick all three of these boxes:

• they have low cost (or free) electricty
• they can charge it regularly (daily)
• they have driving habits that approach <22 miles between recharges

The further away from that ideal situation you are, the less likely you are to see significant fuel economy benefits from the 330e. Get too far away from those conditions, and you may be worse off.

I can go days without burning any petrol, but that's because we don't have a daily commute and any around-town errands we do are <20 miles round-trip. In pure electric mode, I can get around $.08/mile. Overall, using hybrid eco-pro, I get $.10-$.11/mile. But that's highly dependent on my electric and petrol rates. My MPGe since ownership is about 42.5.

Others in this forum have much higher electric rates. It would actually cost them more to drive in EV mode, and their fuel economy would suffer in ICE mode because of the battery weight.

[tdma]

Thanks for sharing your opinion!

Yeah, I am also concerned about its residual value. Say you keep it for 5 years, who is going to want a hybrid car with a range of 30mi then that will most likely need its battery pack replaced for $10k?

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by tdma

Thanks for sharing your opinion!

Yeah, I am also concerned about its residual value. Say you keep it for 5 years, who is going to want a hybrid car with a range of 30mi then that will most likely need its battery pack replaced for $10k?

In 5 years, depending on where you live and the restrictions present, the hybrid may be more desirable. The battery is under warranty for 8 years, so one shouldn't have to worry about replacing it.

I really like my 330e. I don't carry around a trunk full of junk regularly, so the slightly smaller trunk doesn't affect me. The rear seats also fold down if you need to haul larger items. My daily commute is 28 mi round trip & I get between 24-26 mi all electric every day meaning I use maybe 2-3 mi of fuel on that trip. I am able to charge every night (free at one residence, $0.11/kwh at my other residence). I can go 4-6 weeks without filling up with fuel, and currently my fill ups with premium fuel cost between $25-$30. On longer trips I get 36-38 mpg. So, for my uses the 330e works out great.

[gavinwong]

@SolcalJon has laid out a good criteria to think about.
Since sept 2021, 75% of my KM’s have been done in electric based on the key points of charging daily, commute to office is within the electric range (most of the time), and electricity rate is cheaper than petrol based on cents per KM. My road tax is also 50% cheaper.
I did try a 320i before landing on the 330e. And it felt sluggish in comparison, so On a touring it may feel a lot less powerful, especially if you’re coming from a lighter weight car as you describe. Constant comparisons between the 330i and 330e on here, maybe that becomes an option for you if your after a bit of a punch without the electric motor component.
Boot / trunk space for you shouldn’t be as much as an issue in the touring, since the shape dimensions are much more convenient.
don’t know who needs to know this, but The 330e saloon does get a bugaboo chameleon 3 in packed flat (Tetris as a child did come in handy after all), a changer bag, and a rucksack / groceries bag for me. Which suits when needed as 70% of the time it’s completely empty.
Residual value wise I guess it remains to be seen. Will be interesting to see as we get closer to some country rules in 2030 to see what that does to the used car market for mass market combustion only models

[oz555]

320d no question. Such a good engine.

[Hofmeister Kink]

All valid points raised so far.

I have a 320i M Sport. Main reasons for choosing:
1. Budget - could not justify the extra initial cost of 330e
2. Running costs - electricity prices in U.K. have jumped hugely in recent times so cost per mile on electric or petrol very similar
3. Refinement - you can hardly hear the engine at idle, it’s really refined. Why I didn’t go with the 320d
4. Mechanical reliability - fewer things to go wrong. Reading stuff on other forums, BMW’s 2 litre petrol unit has the best record for reliability
5. Leadtime - more build slots for 320i

[tdma]

Originally Posted by gavinwong

I did try a 320i before landing on the 330e. And it felt sluggish in comparison, so On a touring it may feel a lot less powerful, especially if you’re coming from a lighter weight car as you describe. Constant comparisons between the 330i and 330e on here, maybe that becomes an option for you if your after a bit of a punch without the electric motor component.

Right, but with an empty battery, the 330e should be less powerful than the 320i, right? (same engine, more weight on the 330e).

So considering I would be driving without charging the battery most of the time, a 320i could make more sense.

Some people says the electromotor still helps even when the battery's empty, not sure how that would work.

[tdma]

Originally Posted by Hofmeister Kink

3. Refinement - you can hardly hear the engine at idle, it’s really refined. Why I didn’t go with the 320d
4. Mechanical reliability - fewer things to go wrong. Reading stuff on other forums, BMW’s 2 litre petrol unit has the best record for reliability

Makes a lot of sense to me. Such a car could have a long life and give you stability while the rest of the world tries out all kinds of technologies attempting to migrate to EVs.

[SoCalJon]

Originally Posted by tdma

Right, but with an empty battery, the 330e should be less powerful than the 320i, right? (same engine, more weight on the 330e).

So considering I would be driving without charging the battery most of the time, a 320i could make more sense.

Some people says the electromotor still helps even when the battery's empty, not sure how that would work.

I think that the battery is rarely, if ever, truly “empty.” The last kWh (or so) seems to be reserved for traditional hybrid operations. Generally speaking, that means you always have the possibility to recharge the battery through regen, giving you the capacity for using the electric motor by itself or in conjunction with the ICE.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by tdma

Right, but with an empty battery, the 330e should be less powerful than the 320i, right? (same engine, more weight on the 330e).

So considering I would be driving without charging the battery most of the time, a 320i could make more sense.

Some people says the electromotor still helps even when the battery's empty, not sure how that would work.

The 330e owners on the forum reported 36-38mpg on long trips(e.g. several hundred miles) starting with a full charge, so it looks like BMW's PHEV tech does make use of the car's momentum to recharge low(but not depleted) battery.

It likely is true that if the car is under load all the time(e.g. a 50-mile hill climb) then the system will have no opportunity to recharge the battery, and the mpg can be awful, but it may be OK in normal DD.

Do note that 330i(and likely 320i) can get 42+mpg, so 330e's 36-38mpg does mean extra fuel is used (the energy replenishing the battery needs to come from somewhere).

[JABCAT]

I've reported & shown 36-38 mpg without using the battery at all. You can also drive the car in battery control mode & set the % of battery you want to maintain. I set mine at 100% & the vehicle can replenish it from essentially 0% in about 15-20 miles. So that's an option as well if you're not going to "plug in".

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

I've reported & shown 36-38 mpg without using the battery at all. You can also drive the car in battery control mode & set the % of battery you want to maintain. I set mine at 100% & the vehicle can replenish it from essentially 0% in about 15-20 miles. So that's an option as well if you're not going to "plug in".

What is your mpg when charging from 0% to 100%?

And when not using the battery, what is your 0-60 time?

Do u mean 36-38mpg without charging battery? I think to get that mpg u need a full-charge to begin the trip, and the electric motor is on/off per ECU control to get the best gas + electric performance and efficiency.

[tdma]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

I've reported & shown 36-38 mpg without using the battery at all. You can also drive the car in battery control mode & set the % of battery you want to maintain. I set mine at 100% & the vehicle can replenish it from essentially 0% in about 15-20 miles. So that's an option as well if you're not going to "plug in".

Yeah, I mean, to use the ICE to recharge the battery just burning more fuel, I might just as well get an 320i no?

[gavinwong]

Originally Posted by tdma

Right, but with an empty battery, the 330e should be less powerful than the 320i, right? (same engine, more weight on the 330e).

So considering I would be driving without charging the battery most of the time, a 320i could make more sense.

Some people says the electromotor still helps even when the battery's empty, not sure how that would work.

As per above, if you’re not able to charge it often, and for me I charge it at least twice a day when I have to use it, then I’d say go with combustion.
On the power bit, after a few mins on a cold start up with no charge, the electric motor is ready to give you the full 298bhp in short bursts. Like solcaljon has said, power is reserved in the background, and I think it’s so you can unlock the extra boost when needed

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

What is your mpg when charging from 0% to 100%?

And when not using the battery, what is your 0-60 time?

Do u mean 36-38mpg without charging battery? I think to get that mpg u need a full-charge to begin the trip, and the electric motor is on/off per ECU control to get the best gas + electric performance and efficiency.

There's other posts on this topic where I've posted screen shots of a 250 mi trip in battery control mode with cruise control set at 83 mph, keeping the battery at 100% charge & getting 36-38 mpg.

0-60 time, no idea as I don't measure my 0-60 time in my 4K lbs sedan as it's not very important to me. If one cares about accelerating to merge into traffic, unless you're in all-electric mode the vehicle always uses both gas & electric when quick acceleration is needed. It's a fairly quick vehicle considering it's weight. If 0-60 times are the concern, then the M340i is the one to get, not a 320 or 330e.

It really comes down to how you're using the vehicle. If you're not going to be charging the vehicle regularly, don't get a PHEV.

[tdma]

I ended up buying a 320i

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by tdma

I ended up buying a 320i

Congrats on your new ride!