[elambo]

Originally Posted by Tim 4723

True but if you're doing it on a home system it's almost purely a listening preference. Setting the curve in a car needs to overcome wind and road noise in order to provide what will be percieved as a fairly flat sound to the listener (assuming that a flat frequency response is the desired starting point). This is obviously a compromise because wind and road noise vary greatly depending on speed and road surface.

Another good point. But it's cumulative. And anyone who prefers the smiley eq curve is going to prefer that at home and on the go. As you pointed out, there's extra work to do in the car because you need to counteract shortcomings and limitations, like noise, like HIGHLY reflective surfaces, a phasing nightmare, countless modes (where frequencies build up or where they're shy), etc.

Yes, the car is a tough place to populate with sound, so getting to a point where it's either flat, or using a sound profile of some sort, doesn't even begin until you've tackled as much of that adversity as possible. Or else it wil become a part of your sound signature, like it or not.

[I800C0LLECT]

I think people just want to personalize their system before they can accept it. The wind noise argument doesn’t make sense to me. I’ve never seen anybody reduce or add eq based on road noise. Any holes in the response are usually limitations on the hardware or design choices.

I think we can all agree that whatever we do it’s one step forward and one step back. There’s no perfect solution…just the never ending debate of which trade off is most acceptable?

[elambo]

Originally Posted by I800C0LLECT

I think people just want to personalize their system before they can accept it. The wind noise argument doesn’t make sense to me. I’ve never seen anybody reduce or add eq based on road noise. Any holes in the response are usually limitations on the hardware or design choices.

I think we can all agree that whatever we do it’s one step forward and one step back. There’s no perfect solution…just the never ending debate of which trade off is most acceptable?

Some high end audio systems have road noise compensation, adjusting not only volume but eq settings as the car travels at higher speeds. There's a (relatively) predictable sound profile to tires on pavement and the passing air which can be accounted for in the systems parameters. And it works. Is it necessary? No. But for those who want the best from their sound systems it's an undeniable benefit.

With things like sound dampening there's no step back, unless you consider the added cost. Sonically, there's no compromise. I'd say the same thing about reparative eq. If it's attenuating frequencies that are too prevalent in the cockpit then it's purely a step forward. However, if it's time-aligning all of the speakers for a particular seat in the car, yes, that's (most likely) a step backward for the *other* seats.

[Gladius Nova]

I'm ok with the obligatory "V" EQ settings on my HK. Can definitely tell the difference between the Hi Fi system and the HK IMO. I had just the Hi Fi in my old 2015 4-Series. It sounded like crap but that's all I could budget at the time.

[Dan B]

My hearing has been damaged enough that they all sound about the same to me. The only difference is bass since I can feel it.

[I800C0LLECT]

Originally Posted by elambo

Some high end audio systems have road noise compensation, adjusting not only volume but eq settings as the car travels at higher speeds. There's a (relatively) predictable sound profile to tires on pavement and the passing air which can be accounted for in the systems parameters. And it works. Is it necessary? No. But for those who want the best from their sound systems it's an undeniable benefit.

With things like sound dampening there's no step back, unless you consider the added cost. Sonically, there's no compromise. I'd say the same thing about reparative eq. If it's attenuating frequencies that are too prevalent in the cockpit then it's purely a step forward. However, if it's time-aligning all of the speakers for a particular seat in the car, yes, that's (most likely) a step backward for the *other* seats.

Those systems are still microphone based and require an algorithm. Honda builds Helmholtz resonators into their wheels and has active noise cancellation as well. It’s measurable at least.

Canceling a sound wave isn’t the same as adding EQ though. I might look at that person sideways. Kind of like the girlfriend that turned off her radio to see if it would fix her car from not starting

[elambo]

Acoustic phase cancellation wouldn't work in a car's interior because the sound varies from location to location. Cancellation in headphones works because it's a very controlled and static environment where all the conditions are known and predictable and easy to invert. Yes, if you could successfully cancel wind noise at the driver's seat, everyone else would be dizzy from the havoc they'd be hearing.

[Aero7000]

Is this just me or HK in 2024 m340i sounds significantly better comparing to 2020 m340i?
I just switched cars and can swear it is better (in my opinion).

[elambo]

Originally Posted by Aero7000

Is this just me or HK in 2024 m340i sounds significantly better comparing to 2020 m340i?
I just switched cars and can swear it is better (in my opinion).

Three possibilities here: 1) it's a hardware change/upgrade, 2) one of the HKs was modified and you prefer the setup of the 2024, 3) they're the same but giving the impression that they're different.

Anyone know if the hardware was changed between model years?

[I800C0LLECT]

Interesting…I have a 2023 LCI. Maybe there is a difference

[I800C0LLECT]

Originally Posted by elambo

Acoustic phase cancellation wouldn't work in a car's interior because the sound varies from location to location. Cancellation in headphones works because it's a very controlled and static environment where all the conditions are known and predictable and easy to invert. Yes, if you could successfully cancel wind noise at the driver's seat, everyone else would be dizzy from the havoc they'd be hearing.

I didn’t want to get into psychoacoustics but that’s exactly why I don’t mind working with HK. It’s tuned for two seat listening. The last time I hit a home run with car audio…it made her sick getting into my car. It was tuned for the drivers seat and for some people would make them want to throw up

[toddwalton]

Originally Posted by elambo

Three possibilities here: 1) it's a hardware change/upgrade, 2) one of the HKs was modified and you prefer the setup of the 2024, 3) they're the same but giving the impression that they're different.

Anyone know if the hardware was changed between model years?

Hmm. Maybe this would explain why I am so gobsmacked by my 2024 G26 and others swear that it’s no good. ‘24 GC has the LCI interior.

[Montaver]

There is no doubt BMW has been changing something across models, I assume based on the universal criticism everywhere. DM sound are the offshoot of daily motor and just do sound systems. Here is there 3 series LCI HK review -

If you just jump to his conclusion at 16:50 - 'BMW should be embarrassed to put this in the car. This poor of a sound performance... its not good. Its a weak B- tempted to even give this a C'. Cant say I disagree.

The 4 series review (pre-LCI)

'Coming in at a really low B..'. Basically the same deal.

However look at some similar/refreshed models.

Here is the i4 -

'Really really great..' S tier.

Here is the X5 LCI -

'BMW finally got tired of being dumped on in tests. Starting with the i4, now this..broad improvements in the system'. A tier

This is one reviewer across all these cars. Reviews by nature are subjective, but this guy has tested basically every BMW system out there right now including the B&W. I'd be interested to know if hardware changed.

[I800C0LLECT]

I think it would be comical if it turns out the i4 and 3 series have the exact same hardware and wiring. Anything attached to emotion makes it hard to become objective.

Attached a how-to guide from Andy Wehmeyer at AudioFrog. But it starts with establishing a foundation. He made this as part of a course that he now offers. It's quite a bit more in depth in person

[StevenDS85]

BMW installed an amp with only 464 watt (g20) instead of the 600 watt (f30). That’s the main reason. To fix this you can upgrade to matchup 7 dsp for hifi and matchup 10 dsp for HK. It makes a big difference already. (No speaker upgrade needed)

[Aero7000]

Originally Posted by elambo

Three possibilities here: 1) it's a hardware change/upgrade, 2) one of the HKs was modified and you prefer the setup of the 2024, 3) they're the same but giving the impression that they're different.

Anyone know if the hardware was changed between model years?

I think it is option 1, definitely improved, especially surround sound effect and equalizer tuning ability.
My reference is Bang & Olufson in wife's 2021 SQ5.
Pre LCI it was close, better low range in HK, but crisper sound and surround effect in B&O.
Now it is hands down HK, not even close.

[I800C0LLECT]

Originally Posted by Aero7000

I think it is option 1, definitely improved, especially surround sound effect and equalizer tuning ability.
My reference is Bang & Olufson in wife's 2021 SQ5.
Pre LCI it was close, better low range in HK, but crisper sound and surround effect in B&O.
Now it is hands down HK, not even close.

I have a hunch that it's tuning. Maybe they swapped the speakers? The i4 and 3 series are stated at 464 watts and 16 speakers. I believe the difference would have to be time alignment, crossovers, and attenuation.

The signal coming from the amp has been identified as proper R, L and correlated center channel. Logic 7 can be steered differently as well.

[toddwalton]

Originally Posted by Montaver

There is no doubt BMW has been changing something across models, I assume based on the universal criticism everywhere. DM sound are the offshoot of daily motor and just do sound systems.

Here is the i4 -

'Really really great..' S tier.

This is one reviewer across all these cars. Reviews by nature are subjective, but this guy has tested basically every BMW system out there right now including the B&W. I'd be interested to know if hardware changed.

This explains it all. Thanks!

[I800C0LLECT]

Finally watched the video…the i4 is different. They added a subwoofer in the rear on the i4. I’m guessing the under seat woofers are in the way so it’s a traditional 3-way in the doors now.

Plus the subwoofer in the trunk. That is what dramatically changed my m340i. Adding the 10” subwoofer lets the underseat mid-bass operate in its optimal frequency range. I only play down to 80Hz so I’m not wasting excursion on lower frequencies. This means I can play it louder without running out of excursion. It also limits excursion at lower volumes and therefore distortion.

I have not received my microphone yet so I haven’t been able to get an RTA but I think using all-pass filters helped me with some cancellation issues I was having. After adding them I was able to flatten my EQ. Obviously, the vehicle still maintains the Harmon curve. Edit: I’m actually unsure what curve they try to match

I have had great success with woofers in a 3-way orientation using the doors or under seat area. I don’t think that contributes much to this unless there are cancellation issues…in a car everything contributes. Even your leg can create problems.

Anyways, good find. I do believe adding a subwoofer and powering the underseat woofers is the key to unlocking the factory potential

[JABCAT]

Fwiw - I used Bimmercode today to activate the B&W sound profiles in my M2, and it sounds significantly better. I will do the same in my wife's X3MC when she gets home.

[elambo]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

Fwiw - I used Bimmercode today to activate the B&W sound profiles in my M2, and it sounds significantly better. I will do the same in my wife's X3MC when she gets home.

Just to reiterate what we've discovered earlier in the thread: the sound profiles are only sound presets, they're not activating hidden functionality that's only available when the sound profiles are turned on. Not trying to dump on them, because they seem to be a good way to get good results quickly, I just wouldn't want someone who doesn't use bimmercode to think that there's a secret club that they're being left out of. Anyone could match those settings, it's just a matter of figuring out what they are.

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by elambo

Just to reiterate what we've discovered earlier in the thread: the sound profiles are only sound presets, they're not activating hidden functionality that's only available when the sound profiles are turned on. Not trying to dump on them, because they seem to be a good way to get good results quickly, I just wouldn't want someone who doesn't use bimmercode to think that there's a secret club that they're being left out of. Anyone could match those settings, it's just a matter of figuring out what they are.

Well, whatever the sound profiles are has nothing to do with the equalizer settings or standard bass/treble settings. My settings stayed exactly the same but activating the B&W profiles added a studio, concert, stage, and rear as well as more surround settings.