[ASAP]

I don't own one but I've driven one hard and smoothly around local roads... it's an incredibly capable car (especially when pushed) but somewhat boring at slower speeds... it almost seems that bmw made it too capable (if that even makes sense) that it resulted in somewhat of a numb experience. Watch Matt Farah's review on the G80x awd vs the F80... he says similar things.

[turbojg]

Going from an automatic to a manual like going from a electronic calculator to a slide-rule.

Nostalgia and connected experience with the slide-rule but the calculator will outperform it everyday when it comes to getting the job done.

A friend of mine had a hill climb car (Sunbeam Tiger). Everyone was running standard shifts. He went from a stick to an automatic and started cleaning up. The stick was more more connected to drive but the automatic took the money home.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by ASAP

I don't own one but I've driven one hard and smoothly around local roads... it's an incredibly capable car (especially when pushed) but somewhat boring at slower speeds... it almost seems that bmw made it too capable (if that even makes sense) that it resulted in somewhat of a numb experience. Watch Matt Farah's review on the G80x awd vs the F80... he says similar things.

It makes complete sense. The comp x wants to go all the time and deserves a racetrack. The manual brings you back in touch with some feeling and engagement, even though it’s slower it’s a better driver’s car imo. Enjoying the comp x on the daily comes with a regular flow of speeding tickets unless you have immense self control.

[Alpine300zhp]

Originally Posted by 'Cane

My $.02 - I was a dyed in the wool manual trans guy my whole life until I bought an E92 M3 with DCT. After having it about a month and only really using it in auto mode, I thought I made a mistake. At that point I made the decision to only shift with the paddles as much as possible (~95+%) and it made it into a much better experience. Since then, I have had 4 other M cars and have kept the same philosophy - only use the paddles, and I don't think I will ever own another manual transmission car again as a result.

Yep. My E92 M3 DCT transformed my view of automatics too even though it wasn’t a real automatic transmission. With the exception of an E90 335i (and I hated that car’s transmission) it was my first automatic transmission car and I loved it in manual mode. Auto mode left a bit to be desired and it was much improved in my F82 and F80 comp.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by Alpine300zhp

Yep. My E92 M3 DCT transformed my view of automatics too even though it wasn’t a real automatic transmission. With the exception of an E90 335i (and I hated that car’s transmission) it was my first automatic transmission car and I loved it in manual mode. Auto mode left a bit to be desired ans was much improved in my F82 and F80 comp.

Same. My e93 DCT was glorious. Reverting to a standard automatic - well, it’s not a standard issue but it’s not dual clutch - in the ZF8 is one of the best reasons to keep or to buy the 6MT.

[AG23]

OP- Not sure if you are into modding but maybe adding an exhaust or some other subtle changes would spice things up.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by ASAP

I don't own one but I've driven one hard and smoothly around local roads... it's an incredibly capable car (especially when pushed) but somewhat boring at slower speeds... it almost seems that bmw made it too capable (if that even makes sense) that it resulted in somewhat of a numb experience. Watch Matt Farah's review on the G80x awd vs the F80... he says similar things.

Meh, people rave about the 997 generation 911 being the holy grail of "engagement" of the water cooled 911. Perfect hydraulic steering and all that. I owned one for 3 years and switched to the G80. let me tell you that after a while all that "engagement" can become tiring. That "feelsome" steering was actually quite heavy and not all that full of actual useful information. Comparitively speaking the G80's steering has useful feel but the stock software robs it of the self centering needed to provide useful feedback. The CS tune unlocks that and I'd say they are within maybe 10% of each other. But while that 997 steering might have 10% more feedback it has about 50% more effort and on a 3-4 hour, 200 mile backroad blast with your buddies, you come home arms aching and ears ringing from the tire noise. Meanwhile, when you loaded up the car at about .8g in the corner and you hit a bump on those back country roads your on and the ass-end decides to do things you weren't expecting to do, what are you going to do then? You back off and play it safe rather than ending up in a farm field (like one of our group did in a drive I wasn't on, he ended up on the roof of his Cayman because he was pushing it too hard).

Problem with journalists like Farah is that they sample cars for short time periods and also live in the land of canyon carving. Ask Matt what he would pick if he only had one car to both commute in the canyons AND deal with traffic.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Meh, people rave about the 997 generation 911 being the holy grail of "engagement" of the water cooled 911. Perfect hydraulic steering and all that. I owned one for 3 years and switched to the G80. let me tell you that after a while all that "engagement" can become tiring. That "feelsome" steering was actually quite heavy and not all that full of actual useful information. Comparitively speaking the G80's steering has useful feel but the stock software robs it of the self centering needed to provide useful feedback. The CS tune unlocks that and I'd say they are within maybe 10% of each other. But while that 997 steering might have 10% more feedback it has about 50% more effort and on a 3-4 hour, 200 mile backroad blast with your buddies, you come home arms aching and ears ringing from the tire noise. Meanwhile, when you loaded up the car at about .8g in the corner and you hit a bump on those back country roads your on and the ass-end decides to do things you weren't expecting to do, what are you going to do then? You back off and play it safe rather than ending up in a farm field (like one of our group did in a drive I wasn't on, he ended up on the roof of his Cayman because he was pushing it too hard).

Problem with journalists like Farah is that they sample cars for short time periods and also live in the land of canyon carving. Ask Matt what he would pick if he only had one car to both commute in the canyons AND deal with traffic.

Spot on here. Try doing a GT car - the connected feeling is great but when you’re in a highway and having to correct steering because it follows every rut and groove, yes, it becomes a task to drive, not to mention when it’s not dry out.
The comments about the car being too capable, well that’s every performance car now. I remember my first time driving even a 992 Turbo S and left unimpressed with how mundane the experience was when you factor in how it felt when you weren’t going full throttle. Same to be said of most cars. They lack excitement when you’re not full engaged and pushing them. I actually find M cars do a good job of being fun at most speeds. The G80 Xdrive has such short gears paired with the ZF8 and CS software it is incredibly fun to accelerate and drive on highway ramps or back roads. It’s also incredibly capable on track which we all know too.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Meh, people rave about the 997 generation 911 being the holy grail of "engagement" of the water cooled 911. Perfect hydraulic steering and all that. I owned one for 3 years and switched to the G80. let me tell you that after a while all that "engagement" can become tiring. That "feelsome" steering was actually quite heavy and not all that full of actual useful information. Comparitively speaking the G80's steering has useful feel but the stock software robs it of the self centering needed to provide useful feedback. The CS tune unlocks that and I'd say they are within maybe 10% of each other. But while that 997 steering might have 10% more feedback it has about 50% more effort and on a 3-4 hour, 200 mile backroad blast with your buddies, you come home arms aching and ears ringing from the tire noise. Meanwhile, when you loaded up the car at about .8g in the corner and you hit a bump on those back country roads your on and the ass-end decides to do things you weren't expecting to do, what are you going to do then? You back off and play it safe rather than ending up in a farm field (like one of our group did in a drive I wasn't on, he ended up on the roof of his Cayman because he was pushing it too hard).

Problem with journalists like Farah is that they sample cars for short time periods and also live in the land of canyon carving. Ask Matt what he would pick if he only had one car to both commute in the canyons AND deal with traffic.

i agree with you 100%... thats why i sold my f87c... it had so much engagement that it actually didn't make it a very good performance car...

i think the longer f80 chassis hits the golden spot of being involving, fun and capable at all speeds... the g80 is FAR more capable but its a level I couldn't see myself having fun w everyday... so when I drove it hard, it felt far more like a super capable luxo gt... oh and that weight is immediately noticeable

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by ASAP

i agree with you 100%... thats why i sold my f87c... it had so much engagement that it actually didn't make it a very good performance car...

i think the longer f80 chassis hits the golden spot of being involving, fun and capable at all speeds... the g80 is FAR more capable but its a level I couldn't see myself having fun w everyday... so when I drove it hard, it felt far more like a super capable luxo gt... oh and that weight is immediately noticeable

The f80 is a better size and each part is refined and engineered optimally in an isolated fashion, but the car is not better than the sum of its parts relative to the e90 or g80. Definitely better than the f87c you are comparing it to.

I liked the f80 comp manual. But I love the g80 manual. I’m not sure what it is - maybe the fit and finish or the exceptional bucket seats or the improved torque curve traction.

The weight of the g80 manual with the carbon roof and seats is fine by me. I drive it hard in the mountains and haven’t felt the weight to be an issue. The comp x on the other hand was a problem. Yes, the f80 was more nimble. But the g80 manual’s weight is not a deal breaker for me.

[Shinkaze]

Originally Posted by 'Cane

My $.02 - I was a dyed in the wool manual trans guy my whole life until I bought an E92 M3 with DCT. After having it about a month and only really using it in auto mode, I thought I made a mistake. At that point I made the decision to only shift with the paddles as much as possible (~95+%) and it made it into a much better experience. Since then, I have had 4 other M cars and have kept the same philosophy - only use the paddles, and I don't think I will ever own another manual transmission car again as a result.

I went e46 M36MT -to-> R35 GTR DCT
In the Nissan the DCT was sort of the worst of both worlds, as smooth as a manual and as fun as an automatic. But I couldn't deny the car was faster for it.

Fast forward 15 years and the G80 M3 xDrive is basically a super refined 4-door GTR. Similar size weight and performance, with 3-Series practicality and luxury the Nissan will never know.

People that test drive the M3 looking for an e46 will be disappointed because it's a huge car, easily the size of an e39 M5 which was an amazing manual (with crappy reticular ball steering, a foible of an otherwise perfect car)...but the smooth torquey V8 fit that manual. I haven't driven a G80 6mt, but perhaps it has some of that e39 `tude which would be nice.

on that point the car that got me back into modern BMW as the M340i RWD which is a spec per spec identical car to the e39 M5 (same weight, width, height, length, track, interior room, seating position, and power on paper....thought the M340 is MUCH quicker off the line). That car introed me to modern turbo i6 BMW and I have to say I REALLY fell in love with that automatic B58. But overall despite being on paper the same car as an e39 M5, you could tell it was tuned a little dull, less lively, etc. So then I made the mistake of researching suspension differences between the G20 and G80 and a week later I have an xDrive Comp.

This is the best Automatic car I've ever owned, and I dare say I would take it over a DCT.

As stated above shifting in manual mode the car really comes alive and feels super playful, and I really love the differences between the 3 shift modes.

I wouldn't mind another manual, but To be honest I would prefer something Naturally aspirated....which is no longer an option. For lack of that, I do admire the G87 6MT, but feel sort of am intrigued with what the base 230 turbo 4 would be like with a G87 Chassis tune and a manual trans. Obviously thy don't make that car, but I'm a slow car fast sort of guy when I'm getting something for smiles.

Right now my fantasy garage is the M3 xD (which I have) and the Z4 M40i 6Mt Which I am sorely tempted by. I'd probably like the car more with a 100bs of turbo charging removed from the nose and an old fashioned naturally aspirated and tuned S54 under the hood.....damn I miss those old Z3M cars ;-)

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by Shinkaze

I went e46 M36MT -to-> R35 GTR DCT
In the Nissan the DCT was sort of the worst of both worlds, as smooth as a manual and as fun as an automatic. But I couldn't deny the car was faster for it.

Fast forward 15 years and the G80 M3 xDrive is basically a super refined 4-door GTR. Similar size weight and performance, with 3-Series practicality and luxury the Nissan will never know.

People that test drive the M3 looking for an e46 will be disappointed because it's a huge car, easily the size of an e39 M5 which was an amazing manual (with crappy reticular ball steering, a foible of an otherwise perfect car)...but the smooth torquey V8 fit that manual. I haven't driven a G80 6mt, but perhaps it has some of that e39 `tude which would be nice.

on that point the car that got me back into modern BMW as the M340i RWD which is a spec per spec identical car to the e39 M5 (same weight, width, height, length, track, interior room, seating position, and power on paper....thought the M340 is MUCH quicker off the line). That car introed me to modern turbo i6 BMW and I have to say I REALLY fell in love with that automatic B58. But overall despite being on paper the same car as an e39 M5, you could tell it was tuned a little dull, less lively, etc. So then I made the mistake of researching suspension differences between the G20 and G80 and a week later I have an xDrive Comp.

This is the best Automatic car I've ever owned, and I dare say I would take it over a DCT.

As stated above shifting in manual mode the car really comes alive and feels super playful, [...]

Here’s a list for you - luxury, NA manuals:

Z4 handschalter (as mentioned) $$ - this would be my pick.

Used
Audi v10 gated manual $$$$
991.1 $$
718 GTS4.0 $$$
New
Cadi BW $$$ (supercharged)
992 GT3 $$$$
Lotus emira $$$ (supercharged)

[jmg]

Originally Posted by Mike02z

I’ve owned both a ‘24 M4C and a ‘24 M4 Manual.

The M4C felt faster but I found it boring after 6 months. I wanted the more engaging feel of the Manual. I also find I like RWD better than the XDrive. I can toss the rear around with the RWD Manual.

I work from home and my wife does all the shopping so my car is mostly used for long drives in the foothills of the Blue Ridge Mountains. I do not currently track my cars but if I did I would want the Competition with the CF buckets but for my use case, the manual is a better fit.

I've owned and tracked and dailed manual, DCT and now the ZF8. Here is my take:

If daily driving is the primary source of driving enjoyment an owner gets out of the car and they enjoy a manual, then I can see how they can get bored. When on a public road, you aren't worried about late/trail braking, apexing, grip management, throttle steering, counter-steering and driving lines etc like you would on a track or autocross. The primary source of engagement is the gas pedal, the shifter, and relatively minor steering inputs. Street driving is an exponentially less engaging experience overall, so the manual plays a much larger role compared to the on the track where it's one of dozens of factors of engagement. That doesn't mean it's not rewarding and enjoyable on the track, quite the contrary. It's just that you have many other things to draw engagement from.

As far as RWD vs X-Drive, you initiate oversteer just as easily in X-Drive with traction control completely off or in MDM. It's recovery were X-Drive has the edge. It's still primarily a RWD vehicle full time until you need front traction and you can still throttle steer just like in a RWD vehicle. Throttle dynamics when the rear is loose are not flipped like in a symmetrical AWD or FWD vehicle.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by ASAP

I don't own one but I've driven one hard and smoothly around local roads... it's an incredibly capable car (especially when pushed) but somewhat boring at slower speeds... it almost seems that bmw made it too capable (if that even makes sense) that it resulted in somewhat of a numb experience. Watch Matt Farah's review on the G80x awd vs the F80... he says similar things.

There is truth to this. The car wants to go fast. However, I have found that I am starting to enjoy slower circuits/autocrosses that are more technical where you barely reach 80mph but are constantly snaking the car through corner after corner, over the ones where you are WOT at 150mph sweating as you approach a hard turn and praying your brakes aren't overheated.

In other words, 35mph in traffic is very different than taking a downhill hairpin at 35mph with the rear end trying to get in front of you.

[testing02hwr]

Originally Posted by jmg

I've owned and tracked and dailed manual, DCT and now the ZF8. Here is my take:

If daily driving is the primary source of driving enjoyment an owner gets out of the car and they enjoy a manual, then I can see how they can get bored. When on a public road, you aren't worried about late/trail braking, apexing, grip management, throttle steering, counter-steering and driving lines etc like you would on a track or autocross. The primary source of engagement is the gas pedal, the shifter, and relatively minor steering inputs. Street driving is an exponentially less engaging experience overall, so the manual plays a much larger role compared to the on the track where it's one of dozens of factors of engagement. That doesn't mean it's not rewarding and enjoyable on the track, quite the contrary. It's just that you have many other things to draw engagement from.

As far as RWD vs X-Drive, you initiate oversteer just as easily in X-Drive with traction control completely off or in MDM. It's recovery were X-Drive has the edge.

My conclusions are the same as this. It is all personal preference but it boils down to manual if it is a daily, auto if I want to track.

The auto frees up a lot of mental/physical load when driving which is awesome for the track when there are other things you want to feel/pay attention to. However, on the street, there is nothing to fill that void (unless you break the law) so it gets boring pretty fast. I came from an M340i to the G80 manual and I was so excited to go back to a manual because the M340i just felt like any other automatic during normal commutes.

I am also considering keeping the G80 long term because, if you ever feel like the manual is "too slow", it is guaranteed that there will always be a faster car in the future but there is no guarantee there will be a manual in the future. There will be a day where a Kia EV will be faster than any ICE manual car.

[bri1042]

Originally Posted by testing02hwr

My conclusions are the same as this. It is all personal preference but it boils down to manual if it is a daily, auto if I want to track.

The auto frees up a lot of mental/physical load when driving which is awesome for the track when there are other things you want to feel/pay attention to. However, on the street, there is nothing to fill that void (unless you break the law) so it gets boring pretty fast. I came from an M340i to the G80 manual and I was so excited to go back to a manual because the M340i just felt like any other automatic during normal commutes.

I am also considering keeping the G80 long term because, if you ever feel like the manual is "too slow", it is guaranteed that there will always be a faster car in the future but there is no guarantee there will be a manual in the future. There will be a day where a Kia EV will be faster than any ICE manual car.

I think we're already there, for MT cars if not AWD autos. Depending on how we define "faster", of course. Outside of the GT3 MT, I'm not sure many manuals can beat a EV6 GT to 60. There may be other metrics where a Dark Horse MT, a CT5V BW MT, or a G8x MT can keep up or beat the the EV6 GT, but not all of them. If we aren't already at the "the Kia is faster", we're one generation off. And the Ionic 5 performs better than the Kia GT.

The recent track test of the Ionic 5 N on Throttle House certainly makes it clear that there are MT cars that will beat the N on TH's chosen track, at least.

I would hope that other G8x MT drivers knew this when they bought their car, I certainly did.

[mcsquared]

Tough choice. If I didn’t have another car that is auto, I’d get the comp. xd. If BMW made an awd manual, I’d get that. Give me that combo in a wagon, no contest.

Alas, I have a boring auto dd, and the g80 is my car therapy car with a stick. Love driving manuals! Shifting with precision day in, day out is something I aspire to continue pursuing/achieving until I can no longer.

I’ve been driving manuals for years, so, that’s what I chose for my fun car.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by mcsquared

Tough choice. If I didn’t have another car that is auto, I’d get the comp. xd. If BMW made an awd manual, I’d get that. Give me that combo in a wagon, no contest.

Alas, I have a boring auto dd, and the g80 is my car therapy car with a stick. Love driving manuals! Shifting with precision day in, day out is something I aspire to continue pursuing/achieving until I can no longer.

I’ve been driving manuals for years, so, that’s what I chose for my fun car.

💯

[Shaneartistry]

If I were to get back into a manual, I think I’d go with the Z4. B58 + manual + top down roadster. Sounds like a fun time.

[mcsquared]

Originally Posted by Shaneartistry

If I were to get back into a manual, I think I’d go with the Z4. B58 + manual + top down roadster. Sounds like a fun time.

Off topic, sorry:
Odd you should mention it. One of my neighbors traded his vert mustang for a z4. Looks slick!

As for the g80 debate, if I could have an auto g80 xd and an m4 with a stick in the stable, or a wagon with one, that’d be it.

Need a wagon for utility…nor am I super wealthy either. Haha.

[Mike02z]

Originally Posted by nosbocaj

She hates driving stick. She never once drove my M2….

Sounds to me like one of the reasons I went with a manual 😉

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by Mike02z

Sounds to me like one of the reasons I went with a manual 😉