BMW i4 M50 vs Model 3 Performance. 0-220 kmh

techwhiz1 · 11-17-2021, 06:34 PM

I made a mistake and fed a troll.

ZCD1 · 11-17-2021, 07:06 PM

You mean you showed your true colors.

bavarianride · 11-17-2021, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

Tesla might score high in customer ratings but they score at the bottom in reliability.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bus...r-2021-2%3famp

Pretty much dead last.
I'll stick with buying cars from companies that know how to build them.

Yes those reliability issues, and the lack of Tesla's support when they happened, made some friends to quietly ditch Tesla and return to other premium brands.

The best product of Tesla is still not its cars

techwhiz1 · 11-17-2021, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bavarianride

Quote:

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

Tesla might score high in customer ratings but they score at the bottom in reliability.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bus...r-2021-2%3famp

Pretty much dead last.
I'll stick with buying cars from companies that know how to build them.

Yes those reliability issues, and the lack of Tesla's support when they happened, made some friends to quietly ditch Tesla and return to other premium brands.

The best product of Tesla is still not its cars

I'll have to agree.
I do own Tesla solar and powerwall.
Now that's a great product. Not a car.

Tomorrow is order day.
There is a.cool promo video that I saw for the first time today.

https://www.bmwblog.com/2021/11/17/video-bmw-i4-m50/

bavarianride · 11-18-2021, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

I'll have to agree.
I do own Tesla solar and powerwall.
Now that's a great product. Not a car.

Tomorrow is order day.
There is a.cool promo video that I saw for the first time today.

https://www.bmwblog.com/2021/11/17/video-bmw-i4-m50/

I have owned Tesla product for a long while, it was bought for its hype attributes that reminisced similar products in SV.

As far as Tesla solar(not solar roof) and powerwall, solar alone is not bad while the powerwall is somewhat expensive with 7-8 yrs of useable lives.

Wow the video is spiffy!

hotrod182 · 11-18-2021, 12:02 PM

This video has similar acceleration, and note it is only at 57%. That's a good sign.

120-220km/h seems to be about 10.48 seconds

vs

about 13.8 seconds for the Tesla Model 3 Perf.

Sportstick · 11-18-2021, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

Also,.let's not forget that as far as tech (ADAS) Tesla is not the leader. BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Cruise and Ford are all ahead of Tesla. Tesla's camera only system cannot be L3 since there is no redundancy in the camera system.

Google Nvidia GTC to see where Mercedes is. They are partnered with Nvidia and are using the Orin platform.

BMW has full L3 that will be available in the EU. Not available in the US due to regulatory issues.
Audi has L3 but stopped selling it because the regulations had not caught up.

So Tesla doesn't lead in ADAS. That is a fact.
BMW and Lucid both have in house motor tech that is just as or more advanced. BMW puts all the DSC at the motor. Lucid has done some interesting things also.

Battery tech? LG and others have caught up and are doing forward research. They face the same physics as everyone else.

Tesla has been very good at marketing.

We shall see how they do with real alternatives in the market
Lucid, BMW, VW, Audi, Porsche, GM, Ford are all in one or more segments that Tesla plays in.

I'm betting on the traditional guys that know how to make cars and have partnered with others for tech.

I'm also betting on some of the new guys; Rivian, Lucid, Fisker (not new).

All of these folks know how to make cars. Ultimately cars are what will sell. Unique and novel tech is great, but that's not what the market is going to want long term.
Build quality does matter and Tesla gets at best a grade of D+ for consistency.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/business/...usiness-tesla/

techwhiz1 · 11-18-2021, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Quote:

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

Also,.let's not forget that as far as tech (ADAS) Tesla is not the leader. BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Cruise and Ford are all ahead of Tesla. Tesla's camera only system cannot be L3 since there is no redundancy in the camera system.

Google Nvidia GTC to see where Mercedes is. They are partnered with Nvidia and are using the Orin platform.

BMW has full L3 that will be available in the EU. Not available in the US due to regulatory issues.
Audi has L3 but stopped selling it because the regulations had not caught up.

So Tesla doesn't lead in ADAS. That is a fact.
BMW and Lucid both have in house motor tech that is just as or more advanced. BMW puts all the DSC at the motor. Lucid has done some interesting things also.

Battery tech? LG and others have caught up and are doing forward research. They face the same physics as everyone else.

Tesla has been very good at marketing.

We shall see how they do with real alternatives in the market
Lucid, BMW, VW, Audi, Porsche, GM, Ford are all in one or more segments that Tesla plays in.

I'm betting on the traditional guys that know how to make cars and have partnered with others for tech.

I'm also betting on some of the new guys; Rivian, Lucid, Fisker (not new).

All of these folks know how to make cars. Ultimately cars are what will sell. Unique and novel tech is great, but that's not what the market is going to want long term.
Build quality does matter and Tesla gets at best a grade of D+ for consistency.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/business/...usiness-tesla/

Not surprising.
Turns out BMW is using MobilEye EQ platform.

On a side note I was impressed by the Fisker Ocean. It's going to be initially built by Magna so the quality and consistency will be there.

I put down a $250 deposit.

Sportstick · 11-18-2021, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

Not surprising.
Turns out BMW is using MobilEye EQ platform.

On a side note I was impressed by the Fisker Ocean. It's going to be initially built by Magna so the quality and consistency will be there.

I put down a $250 deposit.

I am considering them as well, but want a configuration not now being offered. Longest range battery without AWD. Completely agree about a Magna-assembled vehicle.

techwhiz1 · 11-18-2021, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Quote:

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

Not surprising.
Turns out BMW is using MobilEye EQ platform.

On a side note I was impressed by the Fisker Ocean. It's going to be initially built by Magna so the quality and consistency will be there.

I put down a $250 deposit.

I am considering them as well, but want a configuration not now being offered. Longest range battery without AWD. Completely agree about a Magna-assembled vehicle.

I figured I can lose $25 if I change my mind. They announced a cool lease plan.

On a side note the lease option on the i4 M50 makes it a no brainer to buy. BMW is not offering attractive leases at this time. on a 36onth lease, you basically pay for the car.

Sportstick · 11-21-2021, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

Also,.let's not forget that as far as tech (ADAS) Tesla is not the leader. BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Cruise and Ford are all ahead of Tesla. Tesla's camera only system cannot be L3 since there is no redundancy in the camera system.

Interesting viewing and reading...

https://jalopnik.com/this-take-on-cn...ign=2021-11-20

techwhiz1 · 11-21-2021, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Quote:

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

Also,.let's not forget that as far as tech (ADAS) Tesla is not the leader. BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Cruise and Ford are all ahead of Tesla. Tesla's camera only system cannot be L3 since there is no redundancy in the camera system.

Interesting viewing and reading...

https://jalopnik.com/this-take-on-cn...ign=2021-11-20

Yep, blame the driver for crappy ADAS.. Sounds about right from religious fanatics.

BTW that's not the only critical article on Tesla FSD.

As the article says; other companies pay their ADAS training drivers to get real feedback.

ZCD1 · 11-21-2021, 05:13 PM

In other off-topic news, the most-reliable Tesla (Model 3 @ 59) is MORE reliable than the most-reliable BMW (58):

techwhiz1 · 11-21-2021, 07:26 PM

Consumer Reports
https://www.consumerreports.org/medi...-new-vehicles/

"Tesla, with four models in the survey, is unchanged at second from last. While Tesla's Model 3 has average reliability, the Model Y still has body hardware issues with the tailgate and door alignment, paint defects, and multiple other problems. The Model X and Model S both have body hardware, climate system, and in-car electronics problems."

ZCD1 · 11-21-2021, 07:42 PM

Consumer Reports:

"BMW’s...redesigned 4 Series has subpar reliability due to power equipment problems."

Also, "Cars most likely to blow a head gasket", 5 out of 9 cited models are BMWs:

http://"htwww.consumerreports.orgtps...buy-instead/"]

techwhiz1 · 11-21-2021, 07:45 PM

https://bgr.com/tech/watch-teslas-fu...-cnn-reporter/

CNN demo of self driving is a unreliable at best.

bavarianride · 11-22-2021, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

https://bgr.com/tech/watch-teslas-fu...-cnn-reporter/

CNN demo of self driving is a unreliable at best.

This comes at a time that Tesla is hiking prices. I am very interested to see if Tesla can hold their US prices next year.

techwhiz1 · 11-22-2021, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bavarianride

Quote:

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

https://bgr.com/tech/watch-teslas-fu...-cnn-reporter/

CNN demo of self driving is a unreliable at best.

This comes at a time that Tesla is hiking prices. I am very interested to see if Tesla can hold their US prices next year.

Lots of competition.

Fisker if delivered will eat up the X.

They have Magna building it on a modified Magna skateboard. FYI, Magna builds the Z4 and GR Supra

Lucid going after the S and winning Cat Of The Year.

I think Tesla is.going to have a.rough time in the next two years. I'm not willing to short them yet, but end.of 2022 or 2023 I am.

spool twice · 11-22-2021, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotrod182

This video has similar acceleration, and note it is only at 57%. That's a good sign.

120-220km/h seems to be about 10.48 seconds

vs

about 13.8 seconds for the Tesla Model 3 Perf.

Based on how well it pulls up top, any guesses to real world trap speeds? I'd say 121-122mph ish fully charged since it appears to have the same or slightly better high speed acceleration as a Taycan 4s with the Performance Battery Plus option.

Seems like BMW chose a power curve more suited for autobahn acceleration. I am curious why BMW chose to limit the car to 140mph though.

ZCD1 · 11-22-2021, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spool twice

…I am curious why BMW chose to limit the car to 140mph though.

Hmmm…maybe a maximum motor RPM limitation?

Reduction gear ratio choice would have been impacted by the car’s weight, so maybe a shorter ratio was needed to enable competitive acceleration, which could lead to a lower maximum speed?

finn123 · 11-22-2021, 11:13 AM

Really how many of you will be able to drive the car with the speed higher than 130kmh (not counting Germans). It’s funny to hear these complains that the max speed of the car is 225kmh. Every new Volvo car now comes with a limited top speed of 180km/h. Of course, those are not performance cars, but still.

If you get the car on a track, which is not a Nurburgring, I doubt you’ll be able to drive that fast anyway.

techwhiz1 · 11-22-2021, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by electric2021

Really how many of you will be able to drive the car with the speed higher than 130kmh (not counting Germans). It’s funny to hear these complains that the max speed of the car is 225kmh. Every new Volvo car now comes with a limited top speed of 180km/h. Of course, those are not performance cars, but still.

If you get the car on a track, which is not a Nurburgring, I doubt you’ll be able to drive that fast anyway.

You run out of road.long before you run out of car.

11-17-2021, 06:34 PM	#221
techwhiz1 Lieutenant Colonel 1864 Rep 1,973 Posts Drives: 2023 i4 M50 Join Date: Aug 2021 Location: Ca, Bay Area iTrader: (0)	I made a mistake and fed a troll. __________________ 2023 i4 M50 - Tanzanite II, Individual Full Tartufo, 20" wheels, all options, PPF, ceramic coating, tinted, lowered (Eibach)
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11-17-2021, 07:06 PM	#222
ZCD1 Lieutenant 204 Rep 406 Posts Drives: 2018 Tesla Model 3 Performance Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: MI/CA iTrader: (0)	You mean you showed your true colors.
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11-18-2021, 12:02 PM	#226
hotrod182 . 829 Rep 3,982 Posts Drives: 2023 i4 M50 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: California iTrader: (0)	Another i4 M50 acceleration video This video has similar acceleration, and note it is only at 57%. That's a good sign. 120-220km/h seems to be about 10.48 seconds vs about 13.8 seconds for the Tesla Model 3 Perf. __________________ 2011 Alpine 335d M-Sport 12.34 @ 110.48mph 2019 i3s Terra, 2008 Black 335i Sedan. 11.11@ 129.47 mph 2008 Monaco Blue JB3 2.0 335i Coupe. 11.33 @ 132.77 mph, 60-130mph: 6.95 seconds 2023 i4 M50 11.48 @ 121.56mph, 3.43 0-60 (dragy)
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11-21-2021, 05:13 PM	#233
ZCD1 Lieutenant 204 Rep 406 Posts Drives: 2018 Tesla Model 3 Performance Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: MI/CA iTrader: (0)	In other off-topic news, the most-reliable Tesla (Model 3 @ 59) is *MORE* reliable than the most-reliable BMW (58):
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11-21-2021, 07:26 PM	#234
techwhiz1 Lieutenant Colonel 1864 Rep 1,973 Posts Drives: 2023 i4 M50 Join Date: Aug 2021 Location: Ca, Bay Area iTrader: (0)	Consumer Reports https://www.consumerreports.org/medi...-new-vehicles/ "Tesla, with four models in the survey, is unchanged at second from last. While Tesla's Model 3 has average reliability, the Model Y still has body hardware issues with the tailgate and door alignment, paint defects, and multiple other problems. The Model X and Model S both have body hardware, climate system, and in-car electronics problems." __________________ 2023 i4 M50 - Tanzanite II, Individual Full Tartufo, 20" wheels, all options, PPF, ceramic coating, tinted, lowered (Eibach)
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11-21-2021, 07:42 PM	#235
ZCD1 Lieutenant 204 Rep 406 Posts Drives: 2018 Tesla Model 3 Performance Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: MI/CA iTrader: (0)	Consumer Reports: "BMW’s...redesigned 4 Series has subpar reliability due to power equipment problems." Also, "Cars most likely to blow a head gasket", 5 out of 9 cited models are BMWs: http://"htwww.consumerreports.orgtps...buy-instead/"] Last edited by ZCD1; 11-21-2021 at 07:49 PM..
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11-21-2021, 07:45 PM	#236
techwhiz1 Lieutenant Colonel 1864 Rep 1,973 Posts Drives: 2023 i4 M50 Join Date: Aug 2021 Location: Ca, Bay Area iTrader: (0)	https://bgr.com/tech/watch-teslas-fu...-cnn-reporter/ CNN demo of self driving is a unreliable at best. __________________ 2023 i4 M50 - Tanzanite II, Individual Full Tartufo, 20" wheels, all options, PPF, ceramic coating, tinted, lowered (Eibach)
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11-22-2021, 11:13 AM	#241
finn123 Second Lieutenant 159 Rep 272 Posts Drives: - Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: - iTrader: (0)	Really how many of you will be able to drive the car with the speed higher than 130kmh (not counting Germans). It’s funny to hear these complains that the max speed of the car is 225kmh. Every new Volvo car now comes with a limited top speed of 180km/h. Of course, those are not performance cars, but still. If you get the car on a track, which is not a Nurburgring, I doubt you’ll be able to drive that fast anyway.
	Appreciate 0 Quote