[footie]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

Lucid develops the batteries and management system for Formula E.
They have veteran auto industry people. The quality looks good and time will tell.

This isn’t my concern, Tesla are sh1t hot when it comes to battery technology but build quality and I mean the quality of the materials and the execution isn’t that great and this is in part the fact they are new to this so why do you think Lucid will be any different.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by footie

This isn’t my concern, Tesla are sh1t hot when it comes to battery technology but build quality and I mean the quality of the materials and the execution isn’t that great and this is in part the fact they are new to this so why do you think Lucid will be any different.

I personally think Lucid is different because they aren't trying to please the masses.

They also have Tesla beat, hands down on battery management. They do batteries and management systems for Formula E racing.

[P1]

One of my co-workers is one of those hardcore Tesla fanbois. Has two of them, wears the hat, you know the type. He told me the other day he's ready to get rid of them for the i4 M50.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by P1

One of my co-workers is one of those hardcore Tesla fanbois. Has two of them, wears the hat, you know the type. He told me the other day he's ready to get rid of them for the i4 M50.

Wow.

Tell him to come on board.

[jkap27]

Originally Posted by gs6456

I hate the grills on the M3/M4 and 4 Series but for some reason it works here.

The I4 grill has a slightly different shape. Look at the space between the two sides at the very bottom. This makes a lot of difference.

Originally Posted by gs6456

I hate the grills on the M3/M4 and 4 Series but for some reason it works here.

The I4 grill has a slightly different shape. Look at the space between the two sides at the very bottom. This makes a lot of difference.

I like them both but I like the i4 grille less for that reason lol different strokes for different folks 😂

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by nosnoop

Is that so? I always had the impression that there are more Tesla fanatics than haters; and they are very active in comments section in various platforms as well. Anytime there were some negatives posted about Tesla, there would be droves of defenders posting countering views, and bashing other cars.

Haha. Absolutely not. There are far more Tesla bashers in the comments section. Just look through any EV review and wait for them to come out.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

I added FSD because I added all the ADAS on the BMW.

Tesla is asking luxury prices for a less than luxury vehicle

Go figure....

You can't figure FSD into the price, because it's a farce. It's feature set largely doesn't exist. You can get very good lane centering and active cruise included in the base price of the car. FSD will never be a viable feature and I feel bad for anyone who paid for it. Especially since the other features that do come with it that are now active, like auto lane change and navigate on autopilot don't work all that well. If at all. I had them for 30k plus miles and they weren't worth crap.

However your point still stands. At $60k a Model 3 performance is juuuuust reasonably priced. It's now $67k without FSD as you noted, and it's pretty much drifted out of it's lane.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by P1

One of my co-workers is one of those hardcore Tesla fanbois. Has two of them, wears the hat, you know the type. He told me the other day he's ready to get rid of them for the i4 M50.

Owning a Tesla will do one of two things: turn you into a cultist, or be ready to run screaming. Sounds like your buddy started off in the first camp but made his way to the latter.

They are brutal.

[KaptainKloss]

There are some holes in your review:
- For starters, you didn't specify which Model 3 you were coming from. If you were coming from one with a 4680, then your argument regarding parasitic battery loss is valid, otherwise, its not.
- An M50 is also overpriced. Paying a 10-15K premium for a car that has less battery range? No thank you.

The battle for the competitive EV doesn't depend on style and substance, its about range. You're comparing an automotive giant that has factories around the world to an 18 year old company that's only been profitable for two years and haven't even produced a total of 1 million cars in a year. Its David vs. Goliath. BMW can afford to make a stylish EV that may be more comfortable, they can also charge a premium for it. But will they win the race, not sure about that. Don't forget Tesla's mission.

[sor]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Owning a Tesla will do one of two things: turn you into a cultist, or be ready to run screaming. Sounds like your buddy started off in the first camp but made his way to the latter.

They are brutal.

I have a good friend who is a Tesla fanatic. Has a Cybertruck on order. However, he keeps it real, somehow.

He has never had a problem complaining to me when a supercharger doesn't work, or his Model X doesn't get the range it advertises, or his full self driving beta does stupid and dangerous things. And he has always supported me buying other EVs and can find the good in them. I've appreciated that level of candidness and I try to do the same.

Tesla does deserve a lot of credit, but sometimes the hyperbole gets to me. We all just need to keep things down a notch and try not to take offense.

[sor]

Originally Posted by KaptainKloss

But will they win the race, not sure about that.

But you imply that in the end there can only be one winner. When was the last time there was ever only one auto manufacturer? Why can't multiple manufacturers make worthwhile vehicles that different people buy for different reasons.

That's the rabbit hole we go down in these discussions, as though we can't ever admit that some other company has done something worthwhile, otherwise we lose. I wonder sometimes if the reason behind this is because Tesla's stock price depends on them being dominant in not just auto sales but robotaxis. People are invested in Tesla becoming the giant.

Range is not king, Elon said so himself in response to the Lucid Air range. You just need "enough".

[KaptainKloss]

Originally Posted by sor

But you imply that in the end there can only be one winner. When was the last time there was ever only one auto manufacturer? Why can't multiple manufacturers make worthwhile vehicles that different people buy for different reasons.

That's the rabbit hole we go down in these discussions, as though we can't ever admit that some other company has done something worthwhile, otherwise we lose. I wonder sometimes if the reason behind this is because Tesla's stock price depends on them being dominant in not just auto sales but robotaxis. People are invested in Tesla becoming the giant.

Range is not king, Elon said so himself in response to the Lucid Air range. You just need "enough".

There will never be only one automaker. But go look up how many EV's BMW sold in Q1 of this year compared to TSLA. Do the same for GM. And these are established OEM's compared to a manufacturer that is not even operating at full capacity given two new factories.

It's much harder to convert existing manufacturing processes over to electric, and this is exactly the hurdle that all OEM's are facing. Look at what Diess said about VW's conversion to scaled electric production. On top of that, BMW relies on brand loyalty, which millennials and gen Z don't really care about. Young people can't even buy property in the U.S given rising interest rates and record high prices and they will not pay that much for an electric car. If TSLA gives even an ounce of hope that they can produce a 25K car, younger folks will flock to that. BMW will never make a 25K car.

Capitalism doesn't reward effort, it rewards success. Apple took out Blackberry, Amazon took out brick and mortar retail. TSLA may not exactly do the same for auto, but the cost to scale and sell affordable EV's for traditional OEM's will be very painful.

[Raille]

Originally Posted by sor

But you imply that in the end there can only be one winner. When was the last time there was ever only one auto manufacturer? Why can't multiple manufacturers make worthwhile vehicles that different people buy for different reasons.

That's the rabbit hole we go down in these discussions, as though we can't ever admit that some other company has done something worthwhile, otherwise we lose. I wonder sometimes if the reason behind this is because Tesla's stock price depends on them being dominant in not just auto sales but robotaxis. People are invested in Tesla becoming the giant.

Range is not king, Elon said so himself in response to the Lucid Air range. You just need "enough".

This is pretty much how I view it. Any range over 200 suits our needs for a daily driver. The wife's PHEV can carry us for longer trips if we choose to roadtrip. Honestly, Tesla was never a consideration for us since we weren't Elon fans. The Polestar 2 was a close second before we put in our order for the i4.

I do see a lot of BMW or Tesla stans in all the videos comment sections and it makes for some amusing reading though.

[Alpine Wait]

What is the real-world range of the i4 M50? I see 227mi with the 20" wheels on the BMW site.

I realize range isn't everything, but if the M50 only specs 75% of the range vs. a comparable Tesla, that just feels annoying.

[spuntyb]

Thanks for the write up! I think these cars are ugly as sin, but it's still on my radar to replace the F90.

[Bimmerfun82]

I had a model 3 performance for over a year, and I will never buy one again. The biggest issue for us having 3 kids is space. The tesla rear seat is enormous. Otherwise, the tesla was a very odd experience…. Very novel in many ways, but I would buy this bmw instead without question. The tesla is not luxurious, the big screen without HUD is annoying, and the actual range was so much less than stated.

[sor]

Originally Posted by Alpine Wait

What is the real-world range of the i4 M50? I see 227mi with the 20" wheels on the BMW site.

I realize range isn't everything, but if the M50 only specs 75% of the range vs. a comparable Tesla, that just feels annoying.

Bjørn tested the i4 M50 in winter with 19" wheels and winter tires at 239 miles. That's a good number in those conditions.

The demo i4 I took out last week was showing 217 miles left at 82% battery, in spring like conditions and presumably driven aggressively. That would equate to about 264 miles in warm weather. I can imagine it would hit its EPA rating or better if driven conservatively on the highway.

The 227 is probably what you'd want to budget in good weather if you have to plan stops. Or maybe that's the 80% daily driving value? You don't want to totally run it out.

Edit: oh yeah I get you're pointing out a potential huge drop in range with the optional 20" wheels. That's a problem with all EVs, just need to see tests to know for sure what the real drop is. It varies a lot by wheel style, not just size.

[cruzer666]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Owning a Tesla will do one of two things: turn you into a cultist, or be ready to run screaming. Sounds like your buddy started off in the first camp but made his way to the latter.

They are brutal.

That has been my experience as well. At the "cultist" stage people also buy stock then naturally evangelize it since it impacts their bottom line. 🙂

[sor]

Originally Posted by KaptainKloss

There will never be only one automaker. But go look up how many EV's BMW sold in Q1 of this year compared to TSLA. Do the same for GM. And these are established OEM's compared to a manufacturer that is not even operating at full capacity given two new factories.

It's much harder to convert existing manufacturing processes over to electric, and this is exactly the hurdle that all OEM's are facing. Look at what Diess said about VW's conversion to scaled electric production. On top of that, BMW relies on brand loyalty, which millennials and gen Z don't really care about. Young people can't even buy property in the U.S given rising interest rates and record high prices and they will not pay that much for an electric car. If TSLA gives even an ounce of hope that they can produce a 25K car, younger folks will flock to that. BMW will never make a 25K car.

Capitalism doesn't reward effort, it rewards success. Apple took out Blackberry, Amazon took out brick and mortar retail. TSLA may not exactly do the same for auto, but the cost to scale and sell affordable EV's for traditional OEM's will be very painful.

Yeah, I understand that. Some of these companies are going to have rough transitions. Others are doing pretty well though, you mention GM and BMW, but VW group sold 450k last year and their bread and butter iD line is barely a year old. Ford sold 27k in its first year, that's not bad at all to go from zero to 27k. Polestar sold 29k in its first year.

I guess I'm just not sure what the point was about "who will win the race". I think there is a healthy demand for non-Tesla EVs, and obviously a healthy demand for Tesla EVs. There will be growing pains and not all car makers will do a good job, but I'm not sure that's exactly relevant if we can agree that there's room for multiple manufacturers and segments, and different things are important to different buyers.

There's very little evidence Tesla is actually making a $25k car, it's speculation at this point. Maybe they will, but so will Hyundai and others. BMW has never competed in that segment, so I don't know how it's relevant.

[leofuxing]

Originally Posted by vinny84

Not that anyone might care what a former Tesla owner might think, I still thought it would be nice to share my experience with the i4 M50 and how I think BMW has fared when comparing this to a Model 3

Finally had the opportunity to test drive one last night at my BMW dealer event. I have been eyeing this model for quite some time and I was curious to find out what BMWs answer might be to EVs and ultimately Tesla

First Look

- I have to admit, I think the front is really nice. I hate the grills on the M3/M4 and 4 Series but for some reason it works here.

- I like the rear maybe a bit more but I'm not sure why BMW decided to leave half the rear bumper in high gloss black trim. For that, I think this car looks best in black. I love the blue but that rear bumper bothers me with the black trim for some reason. If only the bottom rear was in high gloss black, I think the blue would be the color of my choice

Interior

- The interior is really nice and clean. I don't mind the buttons on the center console. I think BMW did a really nice job here. Everything is easy to use and access for the most part. I actually do wish it had physical buttons for the heated seats but I was told those can be set to come on automatically after an outside temp has been set.

- The curved display is awesome and really nice. Everything is easy to read and navigate. The steering wheel also doesn't intrude with the center console. The Porsche Taycan does slightly.

- The seats are very very comfortable. Comfort is worlds above the Model 3. I would like to have ventilated seats but I don't think it's worth upgrading to leather. The SensaTec interior is perfect in my mind.

- The rear seat area isn't that big. Tall people might have some issues in the back seat if going on long trips. For me and my fiance it's a non issue. The nod goes to the Model 3 for rear seating.

- Finally, HUD is an option. I really wish the Model 3 had this option.

Driving and Performance

- This is where the i4 M50 really shines. Performance feels similar to my Model 3 but I I feel it is definitely faster. In Sport Boost, the car really puts you back in your seat in the most fiercest way. Excellent I also enjoy the IonicSounds, I think it gives it character and emotion when driving it.

- Suspension feels really good. The adaptive suspension definitely helps here and ride quality is just about perfect. Sporty when you want it and comfortable enough for long trips. The Model 3 suspension is quite harsh compared to this i4. Also, even though the i4 is quite a heavy car, you wouldn't know it when having fun on the back roads with spirited driving

Battery

- I think the battery technology blows away the Tesla here. The i4 gives you real world range and doesn't have much, if any parasitic loss when driving. For example, I left the dealership at 99% battery and 242 miles of range. After about a 15 mile test drive mixed with sporty back road driving, flooring the accelerator most of the time and some highway cruising with some high speed bursts, we came back with 93% battery and 230 miles of range. My Tesla would of lost way more than that and that was my biggest gripe with it.

- Regenerative braking really works. I used to be able to do one pedal driving in the Tesla and I can do it here just as well but the i4 seems to charge the battery up a lot better when you have the regen braking on

Overall

In summary, BMW has hit it out of the park and into the next block here. They have successfully created probably the perfect EV to be able to compete with Tesla and other competition in this price point. I can see myself owning one in the near future

Thanks for taking the time to read my quick review

Thanks for the review. Model 3 owner myself. How is the steering feel compared to the model 3? I used to own an E90 3 series and steering feel on that car was excellent. I also owned an F10 5 series and the steering feel was almost non existent.

[adamkb26]

Lol, it doesn't take much to beat a Model 3… Just a poor quality PoS trying to act like it's a luxury car. The i4 definitely seems nice though.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

I added FSD because I added all the ADAS on the BMW.

Not the same tech. ADAS is closer to what comes standard on the Tesla.