[Montaver]

Originally Posted by SLGrassoPA

GWIZ -- My feeling - it is not an alignment issue, it it is not a tire issue, it is not a balancing issue and it is not an electronic steering issue; instead it is inherent in the design and mechanics of the steering in the 340, and from what I read on this forum, to a lesser extent, the steering in the 330.

It is not the car pulling to one side at all. It's just that the car has a slight wander on center that becomes exhausting and intolerable on long trips. there is no other way to describe it.

I have never felt anything like it any other car, and the longer the drive, the more exhausting it becomes. (my opinion)

With my 340 I sometimes felt like I wanted to get out and hold the wheels straight because holding the steering wheel did not fix the constant need for micro corrections on center, especially at highway speeds.

and I will say - to echo a senior tech at my local BMW store, most people learn to live with it or just don't want to believe the problem exists. Some people, like you, can't live with it and will sell back the car.

yet some posts here "claim" to have no issue.

Your 'feelings' are not based on any evidence. You had a car that exhibited the problem, then never checked the alignment. You then tell everyone you got an X3 and the problem was magically fixed. Your posts don't actually inform or help anyone.

The X3's when misaligned also exhibit the same issue - https://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1937763

Which would make sense given they are the same platform.

[SLGrassoPA]

Yes, it is based on my own experience. That's the only evidence I have. But what GWIZ experienced, even after alignment, is what I experienced. My alignment was checked twice - and they said it's perfect. Maybe they were wrong; I don't know for sure. But there is this manifest dead spot on center that allows the car to drift - ever so slightly - requiring contact micro corrections. It really only took a toll me over long trips.

[BigKutta]

In my 2019 330xi, I have noticed that the return to center is not as "automatic" as it is in my other BMWs of the past 20 years. Something is certainly different. The steering wheel needs to be returned to center manually, more so than other BMWs

[SLGrassoPA]

Bigkutta, some people say it can be fixed with an alignment and have posted their alignment specs on this forum - so take a look at that.

My issue was exactly what this reviewer described starting at 22:35, and my dealership was never able to correct it.

https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1774603

[GWIZ]

Attached is the spec sheet for the alignment I had done prior to my recent trip. I first contacted two different BMW repair shops in Dallas (not dealers) and mentioned zeroing out the toe adjustment. Each shop's reply: "We align per BMW specs." End of conversation. There are five dealers in the DFW area. I spoke with three that weren't interested in making adjustments that weren't to BMW spec. The dealer where I purchased the car (at least the service tech that went on a drive with me) offered only justifications but no solutions. I had the alignment done at at the remaining dealer where I've received quality service/work over the years. We discussed the issue in detail. They said they'd look into the toe adjustment with additional scrutiny. What resulted is the spec sheet shown. Result: steering issue unchanged.

I'm willing to try an alignment once more.

My question: Given the specs shown, what specifically do I need to tell the next service tech/mechanic to do so that I arrive at the same solution as jg4c and Montaver?

[Montaver]

Originally Posted by GWIZ

Attached is the spec sheet for the alignment I had done prior to my recent trip. I first contacted two different BMW repair shops in Dallas (not dealers) and mentioned zeroing out the toe adjustment. Each shop's reply: "We align per BMW specs." End of conversation. There are five dealers in the DFW area. I spoke with three that weren't interested in making adjustments that weren't to BMW spec. The dealer where I purchased the car (at least the service tech that went on a drive with me) offered only justifications but no solutions. I had the alignment done at at the remaining dealer where I've received quality service/work over the years. We discussed the issue in detail. They said they'd look into the toe adjustment with additional scrutiny. What resulted is the spec sheet shown. Result: steering issue unchanged.

I'm willing to try an alignment once more.

My question: Given the specs shown, what specifically do I need to tell the next service tech/mechanic to do so that I arrive at the same solution as jg4c and Montaver?

That alignment looks OK to me. It's in 'minutes' rather than degrees but that's just the way it's measured. The car should be driving decently enough with that geo, you definitely do not want zero toe. Toe in is what will create stability.

[GWIZ]

Originally Posted by Montaver

That alignment looks OK to me. It's in 'minutes' rather than degrees but that's just the way it's measured. The car should be driving decently enough with that geo, you definitely do not want zero toe. Toe in is what will create stability.

I am truly a lay person when it comes to alignments... Do the current specs indicate the wheels are toe in?

[arentz07]

Originally Posted by GWIZ

I am truly a lay person when it comes to alignments... Do the current specs indicate the wheels are toe in?

Positive toe = toe in, negative toe = toe out. So, yes.

[GWIZ]

Originally Posted by arentz07

Positive toe = toe in, negative toe = toe out. So, yes.

Thanks. According to Montaver these specs should remedy the issue being discussed. Unfortunately, this is not the case with my car. Short of a different solution, I'll have to decide on a new course of action.

Per Montaver's poll, a growing percentage of owners (now 32%) have reported experiencing this steering issue, a 5% increase since I took the poll about a month ago.

I understand the difficulties in making reliable inferences from such informal research; nonetheless, a poll is a poll and I am intrigued by the number of those reporting this issue.

If, say, only 3% of respondents had confirmed a problem, I'd think that perhaps I bought a lemon or had a hardware/software malfunction. But at 32% (as of this writing), the percentage of forum members affected by this issue seems rather high to me.

If not caused by the tires or alignment, then the problem I'm experiencing with my car is, I assume, a design feature or some other yet undiagnosed part or process that is in need of redesign or recalibration.

[SLGrassoPA]

Good luck. I'd say discard the poll. If your brand new car is experiencing this kind of an issue that can't be easily fixed, then stop trying to fix it. Contact BMW NA and ask for a regional rep.

If you are willing to get into another new BMW they may very well accommodate you without much (if any) loss on your 3 series trade. (From what I've read the constant micro correction steering issue, is limited to the 3 series - 330 and 340.)

If you are not willing to get into another BMW, they probably won't be receptive and you may be left with having to pursue a lemon law claim which can take a long time.

Show or email the rep this video and focus on 22:35 forward.

https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1774603

[GWIZ]

Originally Posted by SLGrassoPA

Good luck. I'd say discard the poll. If your brand new car is experiencing this kind of an issue that can't be easily fixed, then stop trying to fix it. Contact BMW NA and ask for a regional rep.

If you are willing to get into another new BMW they may very well accommodate you without much (if any) loss on your 3 series trade. (From what I've read the constant micro correction steering issue, is limited to the 3 series - 330 and 340.)

If you are not willing to get into another BMW, they probably won't be receptive and you may be left with having to pursue a lemon law claim which can take a long time.

Show or email the rep this video and focus on 22:35 forward.

https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1774603

Thanks, SLGrassoPA. I appreciate hearing about your experience on this issue. Based on your success, I'd like to think this is a potential option to pursue. BMWs have fit me and my family's needs for some time now. I've always appreciated the versatility of a car that I could tear the track up with one day, dawdle in eco pro to the grocery store with my 90-year-old father-in-law the next, take care of some honey-dos like picking up a few hundred pounds of topsoil, and then go right on repeating this cycle without much concern about mechanical reliability. I've yet to find a maker that fits this bill as well.

It was unfortunate that at the time I purchased this 330ix, no dealers in the DFW area had one on the lot for a test drive, so I custom-ordered, the same with my 230i. Had a test drive revealed this issue, I am quite certain I would have looked at different models. At any rate, this is where I'm at now.

[Rux]

BLUF

BMW engineered the steering to lessen the "Numb" feel when you make a car that checks all of the boxes. Result: Artificially improved performance handling. Downside: Some people, a certain percentage of the population, have a hard time adjusting to it. Why? NFI. Why does cant my wife tell the difference between HD and 4K? Why are some people sensitive to fluorescent light while it does not bother others?

You can counter some of this with an alignment, better tires and drive mode adjustments but it will never 100% go away.

There is a common theme with the people experiencing this, why it occurs for some, not others. Perhaps some data scientist or someone really fucking bored can put together all of the common facts and data points, spelling out the problem.


Until that time, the only REAL solution is to Test Drive. Not 5 min around the block, real world your test drive. I certainly would not fork over 50-100k plus on ANYTHING that I did not 100% know I liked and fit my use case.

Don't think for a second I didn't fuck that rule up. I ordered a 2018 Infinti Q50 Red Sport AWD without testing all the options because I "had one before" . Steer By wire. You all think your steering sucks....you have no idea how bad it could really be.

vr

[GWIZ]

More common facts and data points would certainly help to understand this problem better. I see it is being discussed in the BMW X3 (G01) / X4 (G02) Forum as well https://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1937763. If you are aware of it being discussed elsewhere -- other car forums, car reviews, etc., please share.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by GWIZ

More common facts and data points would certainly help to understand this problem better. I see it is being discussed in the BMW X3 (G01) / X4 (G02) Forum as well https://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1937763. If you are aware of it being discussed elsewhere -- other car forums, car reviews, etc., please share.

I'm coming to the conclusion it is likely a build "tolerance stack" issue. Hence the good and bad examples. The fact it is not limited to the G20 and the G01 X3 appears to have exactly the same problem, tells me it is not a particular design issue with the G20.

What the cause and where the solution lay, BMW haven't got there yet. Alignments sort some examples, does this offload the rack? Taking away sensitivity, or add to it, to give a solution? Is it software? Steering torque sensor too wide a calibration, or over sensitive? Who knows?

We have an example of a user who has swapped from a bad G20 to a good G01. Now rid of the issue. With what we are reading, we could as easily move from a good G20 to a bad G01.

I've got a good 'steering' example of an F11. I did have to slightly adjust the steering wheel position to bring it altogether for optimum precision. Over the years we've had similar discussions from F10/11 users with poor steering, vague on-center, wandering and pull. Some users never got an acceptable solution, even with BMW involved. Other users did get improvements with alignments, component changes and/or adjustments.

[tzocu]

Originally Posted by GWIZ

Thanks. According to Montaver these specs should remedy the issue being discussed. Unfortunately, this is not the case with my car. Short of a different solution, I'll have to decide on a new course of action.

Per Montaver's poll, a growing percentage of owners (now 32%) have reported experiencing this steering issue, a 5% increase since I took the poll about a month ago.

I understand the difficulties in making reliable inferences from such informal research; nonetheless, a poll is a poll and I am intrigued by the number of those reporting this issue.

If, say, only 3% of respondents had confirmed a problem, I'd think that perhaps I bought a lemon or had a hardware/software malfunction. But at 32% (as of this writing), the percentage of forum members affected by this issue seems rather high to me.

If not caused by the tires or alignment, then the problem I'm experiencing with my car is, I assume, a design feature or some other yet undiagnosed part or process that is in need of redesign or recalibration.

G20, 320i, 225/40/R19, 255/35/R19 non RFT, the steering needs constant micro corrections.I did the alignment twice at independent shop but nothing changed.I went twice to BMW dealers in Romania but they didn't notice any problem.I will change the wheels with 225/45/R18, 255/40/R18 non rft winter tyres and try one more alignment at BMW dealer.

[Rawhide]

Just had mine on the highway for about 6 hours last week and didn't notice anything like this. Then again, my other vehicle is a lifted Jeep that floats so much it's terrifying over 70mph.

[alpinewhite3]

No issues- in fact over the course of the 3 years i had the car i had the opposite problem- That annoying dead spot on center where you move the wheel left and right and nothing happens.

[martinux]

Hello,

I have all these problems as mentioned above. So, maybe anyone have it solved? I also need do the micro adjustments at highways, also the steering wheel is quite heavy and it is difficult to change the lanes

[hellbivoy]

same problem, 330D, RWD, made 10/20, m sport not active suspension, 225+25519" bridgestone turanza rft, all steering intervention off all the time
wheel alignement did not help a lot, tried twice (bmw and workshop)
finally went for eibach springs, improvement +60 to 70%, but still scared to drive faster than 220kmh, before eibach bearable limit was 170kmh
before buing car i tested 320d xdrive from bmw dealership, extremely unstable, and 330ix with active m suspension, was ok

[SLGrassoPA]

Good luck!!!

FYI - these links:

This reviewer describes it best at 22:35 of the video

https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1774603
At 22:35 of the video

This thread:

https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1865372

And this thread.

https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1855230[/QUOTE]

[sshamim]

Hi, as I mentioned in another thread,

I recently got a certified 2020 330i but I feel like I'm driving "the ultimate driving boat" in the highway as it drifts, floats, wanders and never settles.

I took it to an independent shop for alignment. I'm not sure, but I feel it got better for a short period of time but it's bad again. Maybe going over a pot hole ruined the alignment or something.

Attached are my alignment specs. First time that they aligned the car, the steering wound't center so I had them to do it again.

I'm taking it to the BMW dealer that sold me the car to check, but I don't have high hopes for a fix.

[SLGrassoPA]

99.9% it has nothing at all to do with the alignment, tires, balancing or pressure.
It’s the way the steering was engineered.
Most get used to it.