[Kennethjk]

If we are lucky EA and others will hire all these people and get their systems up to teslas level and make everyone more competitive.

[Pictor]

Ionna will likely pick up a few of them for their new network.

[MAMOHT]

There is a new MB commercial on TV and they clearly show a NACS commector. I know, it does not mean that they will be able to use the SC network right away.

[FultonMDUSA]

I would say these actions by Tesla are a confirmation that the Supercharger division was never a money maker for Tesla. I'll bet that polling noted a shift that potential Tesla buyers were no longer considering the SC network as a significant enough factor to drive additional sales.

I don't think isolated EV charging locations themselves will ever be profitable, any more than isolated gas stations are profitable. Gas stations always really made their profits from the convenience store or the repair shop. And of course, the landowner always gets a big cut.

[LuisBoston]

Originally Posted by FultonMDUSA

I would say these actions by Tesla are a confirmation that the Supercharger division was never a money maker for Tesla. I'll bet that polling noted a shift that potential Tesla buyers were no longer considering the SC network as a significant enough factor to drive additional sales.

I don't think isolated EV charging locations themselves will ever be profitable, any more than isolated gas stations are profitable. Gas stations always really made their profits from the convenience store or the repair shop. And of course, the landowner always gets a big cut.

Not yet because they’re not open fully to non-Teslas.

Every time I look at Tesla sc’s online or drive by, they’re empty. Maybe not in California, but I suspect most are like this.

Demand needs to catch up, and it will in late 2024 and 2025.

[ggalanis]

Originally Posted by Windshieldfarmer

People here are vastly underestimating Mr. Musk. While his EQ (emotional intelligence) is very low, he is intellectually way ahead of most people. He knows what he is doing. Everything he does is based on first principles…based on truth. Feelings, public relations, or opinion doesn’t matter.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by LuisBoston

Not yet because they’re not open fully to non-Teslas.

Every time I look at Tesla sc’s online or drive by, they’re empty. Maybe not in California, but I suspect most are like this.

Demand needs to catch up, and it will in late 2024 and 2025.

Demand is location specific. There’s a charger by me that is always packed, so they doubled the amount of chargers to 24. Others lay mostly empty on any given day, but the time of day also matters significantly. Friday afternoons for example are slammed.

[LuisBoston]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

Demand is location specific. There’s a charger by me that is always packed, so they doubled the amount of chargers to 24. Others lay mostly empty on any given day, but the time of day also matters significantly. Friday afternoons for example are slammed.

But if 90% are empty 90% of the day, they may not be profitable.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by LuisBoston

But if 90% are empty 90% of the day, they may not be profitable.

They lease the SC areas - but I wonder how much those leases cost since they’re in parking lots, and the local businesses benefit. They also received government funds. On the other hand, Tesla offered free miles during promotional periods. Who knows

[NomoTesla]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

Isn’t Elon chairman of the board? He’s stuffed it with yes people.

No, he has not been Chairman of the Board since 2018. Remember that little debacle known as the "funding secured" tweet? The SEC went after him for that. Part of the settlement was barring Elon from being Chairman of the Board.

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

How he runs Tesla and SpaceX and X at the same time … it’s not humanly possible

Elon does not run SpaceX and that's why it is so successful. SpaceX day-to-day operations are handled by Gwynne Shotwell. She is the reason for SpaceX's ongoing success. If Elon ran things over there it would be a shit show like the new Twitter, and now, Tesla.

Originally Posted by Windshieldfarmer

People here are vastly underestimating Mr. Musk. While his EQ (emotional intelligence) is very low, he is intellectually way ahead of most people. He knows what he is doing. Everything he does is based on first principles…based on truth. Feelings, public relations, or opinion doesn’t matter.

They may not matter to Musk but they matter to consumers. Emotional appeal is a big part of why people buy cars. Voting with their dollars is very important to people who are into causes like the environment. PR is super important because companies need to add context to their actions and present a narrative to the media and consumers that will help the company.

In the absence of context, others will happily write the narrative. First principles are nothing if people think you're an a-hole and don't want to give you money. That's what is happening right now.

Originally Posted by FultonMDUSA

I would say these actions by Tesla are a confirmation that the Supercharger division was never a money maker for Tesla. I'll bet that polling noted a shift that potential Tesla buyers were no longer considering the SC network as a significant enough factor to drive additional sales.

Tesla doesn't do polling and doesn't engage in focus group testing like every other sane and rational company. At Tesla they do what Elon Musk thinks is cool, like adding something called "Joe Mode". Who the F* is Joe? But Elon thought it was cool! The calendar function was added because his supermodel girlfriend thought it would be nice to have. That one happened to have worked out. Where do you think the yoke came from? Not from polls or focus groups, but Elon's terminally ill brain.

[ggalanis]

Originally Posted by NomoTesla

Elon does not run SpaceX and that's why it is so successful. SpaceX day-to-day operations are handled by Gwynne Shotwell. She is the reason for SpaceX's ongoing success. If Elon ran things over there it would be a shit show like the new Twitter, and now, Tesla.

Sorry but SpaceX's biggest success is finding ways to burn government money.

They do a few thinks ok but have failed to deliver on many promises (sound familiar?) and lie about how much their launch costs are cheaper than other solutions used before.

Their last starship tests resulted in their starship exploding yet again (3/3) . Of course Phony Stark had said back in 2019 that he thought they'd be carrying passengers in their starship before the end of 2020... And 5 years ago Gwynn said they were 10 years away from offering cheap long distance flights on it (saying they could reuse the rocket something like 10x a day)... I don't know about you, but I don't think the halfway point of a plan to get that done is where you literally can't keep them from blowing up once they are in the sky.

[exxxviii]

Originally Posted by ggalanis

Sorry but SpaceX's biggest success is finding ways to burn government money.

You might want to spend a minute to research the impact that Space X had on space launch costs. They effectively ended the ULA pricing monopoly that stood for years. They transformed a market that was thought to have an impossible barrier to entry.

And they are bringing internet to people where it was previously unavailable.

It is pretty freakin' remarkable when you step back and look at objectively.

[NomoTesla]

Originally Posted by exxxviii

You might want to spend a minute to research the impact that Space X had on space launch costs. They effectively ended the ULA pricing monopoly that stood for years. They transformed a market that was thought to have an impossible barrier to entry.

And they are bringing internet to people where it was previously unavailable.

It is pretty freakin' remarkable when you step back and look at objectively.

SpaceX has basically relegated Blue Origin to the "nobody cares" pile. It's all Gwynne at SpaceX and very little Elon. Thank goodness!

[ggalanis]

Originally Posted by exxxviii

You might want to spend a minute to research the impact that Space X had on space launch costs. They effectively ended the ULA pricing monopoly that stood for years. They transformed a market that was thought to have an impossible barrier to entry.

And they are bringing internet to people where it was previously unavailable.

It is pretty freakin' remarkable when you step back and look at objectively.

I am looking at it objectively.
I did say they did somethings ok. I meant it.

Starlink internet is probably better than previously available satellite based internet solutions (at lease the ones I had looked into for my Dad in the past few years). For those unable to get normal residential broadband internet and are outside 4G/5G cellular range, it is likely a night and day difference but anyone within cell range has better options. Starlink's service is not consistent (available data transfer speeds fluctuate a lot during the day) and many clients often have short blackout periods due to the satellites moving around in the sky relative to their position and they lose line of sight with them. Still for many, a marked improvement.

They do launch satellites into space.

They did do that demo where they landed two rockets back on the ground. Surely a great technical achievement for the engineers actually involved, but was nothing more than a publicity stunt in the grand scheme of things. Just like I can write a program to calculate the trillionth digit of pi after the period (it's a 2 btw). A nice technical achievement (handling very large numbers or very precise small numbers is not the easiest thing to do), but who cares if there is no practical use for it.

They lie about how their their launch costs compare to others. You cannot take numbers they present at face value. They misrepresent (when you do this on purpose, it's called lying) the numbers making you think it is a direct comparison when it isn't (similar to how Tesla misrepresents autopilot safety data by comparing it with regular miles driven as opposed to correcting for the bias of when autopilot tends to be used and other things like that or comparing it to equivalent systems like radar cruise control with lane centering). For instance comparing launching unmanned rockets/vessels with manned vessels like the NASA Shuttle. Going through the details of this stuff is very time consuming... I'm not Thunderf00t. I don't have the time to go through it all.

[LuisBoston]

I have to say I’m so glad Tesla / Elon finally got their own thread on here. Keep it here and off the Bimmer threads

Let it all out everyone!!

[exxxviii]

Originally Posted by ggalanis

I am looking at it objectively.
I did say they did somethings ok. I meant it.

Starlink internet is probably better than previously available satellite based internet solutions (at lease the ones I had looked into for my Dad in the past few years). For those unable to get normal residential broadband internet and are outside 4G/5G cellular range, it is likely a night and day difference but anyone within cell range has better options. Starlink's service is not consistent (available data transfer speeds fluctuate a lot during the day) and many clients often have short blackout periods due to the satellites moving around in the sky relative to their position and they lose line of sight with them. Still for many, a marked improvement.

They do launch satellites into space.

They did do that demo where they landed two rockets back on the ground. Surely a great technical achievement for the engineers actually involved, but was nothing more than a publicity stunt in the grand scheme of things. Just like I can write a program to calculate the trillionth digit of pi after the period (it's a 2 btw). A nice technical achievement (handling very large numbers or very precise small numbers is not the easiest thing to do), but who cares if there is no practical use for it.

They lie about how their their launch costs compare to others. You cannot take numbers they present at face value. They misrepresent (when you do this on purpose, it's called lying) the numbers making you think it is a direct comparison when it isn't (similar to how Tesla misrepresents autopilot safety data by comparing it with regular miles driven as opposed to correcting for the bias of when autopilot tends to be used and other things like that or comparing it to equivalent systems like radar cruise control with lane centering). For instance comparing launching unmanned rockets/vessels with manned vessels like the NASA Shuttle. Going through the details of this stuff is very time consuming... I'm not Thunderf00t. I don't have the time to go through it all.

I think you are missing some key stuff. They dramatically cut the prices that corporations are spending to put satellites in space and that the government is paying to launch stuff. This is public and night and day.

I think the self-landing rockets are pretty cool, and I kinda equate them to FSD. But, if they get it right, it will further lower launch costs to their customers.

SpaceX's Dragon 2 is the only US-rated thing that can put people in space, so in that regard, it does compare to NASA's old programs. They have flown a crapton of people to the ISS for NASA.

Starlink is not perfect, but you are considering a narrow part of the whole. There are lots of places in the US that do not have anything, so Starlink is a game changer. My coworkers stuck in The Ukraine can work and communicate with their families because of it. There are impoverished nations where people gain access to the Internet because of it.

Their current big rocket that they are testing and is blowing up will be a game changer when it gets sorted. There is nothing else like it. ULA is way behind.

Originally Posted by NomoTesla

SpaceX has basically relegated Blue Origin to the "nobody cares" pile. It's all Gwynne at SpaceX and very little Elon.

I don't follow SpaceX closely enough to know the why. But I am amazed at its remarkable success. They completely crushed the crony capitalism space launch monopoly and price fixing.

[MAMOHT]

The saga continues

https://electrek.co/2024/05/03/read-...charger-chaos/

Looks like Elon is hitting the breaks real hard on all new sites and SC network expansion.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by MAMOHT

The saga continues

https://electrek.co/2024/05/03/read-...charger-chaos/

Looks like Elon is hitting the breaks real hard on all new sites and SC network expansion.

Wonder if BMW will delay or abandon NACS implementation on its vehicles.

This excerpt summarizes the situation well:

“Whatever mechanism led to the firing, it does fit into a pattern of increasingly erratic behavior that Musk has been showing lately. Many possible explanations have been advanced to explain this behavior, and most of them don’t increase my personal faith that Musk will make the right decisions with Tesla.”

[NomoTesla]

TSLA shareholders should VOTE NO on Elon's illegal compensation package and everything else the board wants. Clearly the board of directors are no longer a safety and the shareholders need to draw a red line in the sand for Musk. I believe he did all of this in order to make himself more valuable and make the board more dependent on him. The shareholders need to kick him out and also kick out the board.

They want Kimbal Musk on the board of directors for godsakes! This is turning into a nightmare scenario where Elon sees Tesla as nothing more than a piggybank to bankroll his delusional ketamine-induced fantasies about Mars.

If ever there was a poster child for the word "lunatic"...

[NomoTesla]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

Wonder if BMW will delay or abandon NACS implementation on its vehicles.

This excerpt summarizes the situation well:

“Whatever mechanism led to the firing, it does fit into a pattern of increasingly erratic behavior that Musk has been showing lately. Many possible explanations have been advanced to explain this behavior, and most of them don’t increase my personal faith that Musk will make the right decisions with Tesla.”

Kyle from Out of Spec Reviews indicated his contacts inside a certain German automaker said they are having emergency board-level discussions about dumping NACS/Tesla and going back to CCS. At this point I would recommend everyone withdraw support for NACS/Tesla. I'm fine with CCS.

Now is the moment all other manufacturers should get together to dump NACS and deprive Tesla of much-needed profits. The only way to humble a man like Musk is to kick him in the balls where it hurts the most.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by NomoTesla

Kyle from Out of Spec Reviews indicated his contacts inside a certain German automaker said they are having emergency board-level discussions about dumping NACS/Tesla and going back to CCS. At this point I would recommend everyone withdraw support for NACS/Tesla. I'm fine with CCS.

Now is the moment all other manufacturers should get together to dump NACS and deprive Tesla of much-needed profits. The only way to humble a man like Musk is to kick him in the balls where it hurts the most.

[Pictor]

Originally Posted by NomoTesla

Now is the moment all other manufacturers should get together to dump NACS and deprive Tesla of much-needed profits. The only way to humble a man like Musk is to kick him in the balls where it hurts the most.

Or as the man himself said, “punch them very hard in the nose.”