02-09-2021, 11:20 AM | #67 |
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I love old BMWs as much as the next guy but I don’t agree with the “BMW is lost” hysteria. If you enjoy the smaller, lighter, and louder BMWs of the past, that’s great and they are all still available to be had and enjoyed. You can buy one and love it to death, as I and many others do as well. The new models are pretty darn good too. Of course they are different than the cars 20 years ago, just as those cars were different from what they put out in the 80’s. I genuinely enjoy our modern toys just as much though. This ugly little i3s man I tell you, it’s a hoot and every time I open the door and spy the CFRP in the door jamb, I get a little of that fizz a la James May. They still know what they’re doing imo. Very much looking forward to a 6MT G82 in the driveway.
Ignore the advertising if you must. I don’t listen to the pop music in Google commercials, but I’m not out here using Bing over it, just saying
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02-09-2021, 10:47 PM | #68 | |||
Leave the gun. Take the Canoli.
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When the Prius started the electric revolution and then a few other companies including BMW with the I3 followed it seemed like the required design language for an electric vehicle was that it was not at all allowed to be sporty or even attractive. You could pick them all out by their similar ugly styling. At least that is starting to subside.
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02-10-2021, 12:58 AM | #69 |
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Funny how everybody is hating on BMW for focusing on SUV’s and comfort when every single luxury brand is doing the same. That is what sells, it is a business at the end of the day.
No other brand still builds manual sports coupes and sedans. BMW does. |
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02-10-2021, 01:14 AM | #70 | |
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I'm a manual enthusiast and that's what keeps me at BMW. Just look at my avatar. But, I would like to point out that as of later this year, besides the M2, M3, and M4, BMW doesn't make manuals anymore. |
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02-10-2021, 01:16 AM | #71 |
Leave the gun. Take the Canoli.
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Yes, everyone is doing it. It seems like the world is becoming less interested in cool sporty cars and more just in comfort and utility vehicles. It's getting darn near impossible to find a coupe from car makers these days.
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02-10-2021, 07:04 AM | #72 | |
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Cars are appliances to 99% of people, and the remaining 1% complain are more than likely car people, and would rather buy used cars that has a soul Why design for a market that is pretty much turned away from the product they can make money on.
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02-10-2021, 07:57 AM | #73 | |
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02-10-2021, 01:35 PM | #74 | |
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Porsche is also diluting if you look at it that way. The Boxster (which is supposed to be their purest sports car) comes with a uninspiring 4 cylinder. I think one huge problem is turbocharging, as N/A engines are MUCH more engaging and raw. BMW's M division is as good as ever with their products and I'm certain the new M3 will be a hoot to drive. As far as sticking M on most of the products, that's something that Audi started with their S4 being moved down to 335i category in 2010, this forced BMW and MB to use M and AMG on their regular cars in order to keep up with "S" lineup cars. MB, BMW and Audi are all guilty of "diluting" those names but in reality, the people who know, know the difference between the proper M/AMG cars. |
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02-10-2021, 01:41 PM | #75 | |
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02-10-2021, 01:49 PM | #76 |
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Doug has a new list of what he considers the 5 best BMWs.
Have you guys checked it out? |
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02-10-2021, 01:54 PM | #77 |
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02-10-2021, 03:38 PM | #78 | |
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We are also something like 250% more productive than we were 20 years ago (hooray laptops and smartphones and 4G/Wifi) but we're actually working longer hours. SO buying a new car becomes a joint effort with your partner. Doesn't really make sense to drop $40k on a Miata RF if you're thinking about having a kid or your partner has no interest in driving stick. Doesn't make sense to spend $20k on a 160hp/3000lbs Golf. You end up buying a Tiguan or a Mini Countryman S AWD for $30k instead and then you get AWD and a taller ride height so your wife feels safer. The Crossover is basically a minivan without a sliding door. And it's pretty rare for a single adult to be able to afford both rent/mortgage in an urban area (that is, not in the middle of nowhere) AND $40k on a car. You probably have other priorities like your $1000/mo student loan payment. I think I know maybe 3 people my age who live alone? The cost of rent is too damn high. So car manufacturers are leaning on two things: Crossover SUVs and lower monthly payments (yay 6 year loans - more debt!). (Margins are also a huge reason why we're seeing gauge clusters turning into TFT screens. Fewer moving parts are cheaper to produce and maintain.) So when an entry level 4 banger hatchback costs $20k or 128i with no cargo room costs $30k, why bother? Team up with your spouse and then you can afford a $40k car with premium sound and "sport tuned" handling and a big cargo area and you both are fine with putting the kid seat in the back. If you are a tip earner you're fucked even harder, their minimum wage is $2.13/hr and you are more likely to be a tip earner if you're a woman or minority (who are also the majority of folks that exited the work force in 2020). I know one single person who bought a new 128i, but she is a bartender and also sells drugs under the table. So, I think of it this way. Buy an SUV from a car company who supports motorsports. Think of it like a $40k donation to their racing dept and you get a free SUV. I've heard some Ferrari fans spin it this way. $300k donation to their F1 division gets you a free base model 2 seater. People are shitting on BMW for "catering" to the chinese market, but you know what, they're buying new cars. We aren't. Last edited by Motorradist; 02-10-2021 at 03:43 PM.. |
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02-10-2021, 05:44 PM | #79 |
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Back in 1999, 2000+, it was. They were hitting on all 6 cylinders, no pun intended.
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02-10-2021, 06:00 PM | #81 | |
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02-10-2021, 06:08 PM | #82 |
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I was speaking of the line up that was available during those years, ie the 6 cylinders and the feel of the drive. My first one came in 1999, it hooked me into the brand, to date my newest and last one I’ll ever buy which is a 2018 F80CP. Fast as hell but not even close to what I felt with my past BMWs. The 1999 E46 M54 ZF. Then to an E92 ZF which I never should have sold. All went kind down hill for me after that but still pick up the F80CP with its killer looks as they say and I could forgive the less road feel. But now the G80 is so far off the reservation it just makes me sick to see it, knowing where it all started for me. Just my opinions, others are free to think otherwise.
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02-10-2021, 10:28 PM | #83 |
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For what it’s worth, whacky designs are nothing new to the company, and certainly not a sign of them struggling or trying to please one region. There is a well established history of strange looking BMWs, some more beloved than others...
I should add that in the late 90’s, an X5 was probably pretty goddamn strange to see too.
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02-10-2021, 10:59 PM | #84 |
Leave the gun. Take the Canoli.
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Now they have listened too much. That one has NO grilles! Some grilles on that one could at least keep your legs cool.
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02-11-2021, 12:35 AM | #85 | |
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Problem is, not everyone can afford/will be willing to spend $90k+ on a weekend toy. |
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02-11-2021, 01:46 AM | #86 |
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The world was more interesting for automotive enthusiasts when BMW was on their game. The lineup from 2001 was probably the pinnacle, but several amazing cars have come since. Not to mention the S85, S65 and other incredible engines.
But over the last 5-10 years... Ugh. Aside from the occasional driver's car (i.e. M2)... it's just sad. Makes me want to cry. |
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02-11-2021, 06:30 AM | #87 |
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He did point out that the decline began in earnest in 2015. Doug makes some good points, and walking around the dealer last service I have to admit my e92 is probably the last BMW I'll buy after driving them for 20+ years - nothing appeals. I'll just keep driving the 320d (and keep my warmed over e30 as the fun car) until either electric cars become affordable, or hydrogen ends up winning - hydrogen may happen yet in Australia given our proximity to Japan / South Korea, and their commitment to hydrogen to hit their emissions targets.
The "M-car" argument is bit moot - the entire range used to be entertaining to drive. BMW began pimping out the 'M' brand in the early 1980s when you could buy an e21 "Motorsport" from the dealer, with M badges, Recaros and a couple of stripes - basically the forerunner to the M-Performance packages you get now. You could also get e36 318i coupes kitted out with full M3 body kits from the factory etc. It's nothing new. They're not necessarily done - they've seemed 'lost' before. The Bangle cars were slammed back in the day, but they've dated better than a lot of other cars of the early 2000s and are now seen as 'peak BMW', go figure! |
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02-11-2021, 06:48 AM | #88 | |
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