[Prsche]

My last statement

Members

The last 3 or 4 posts have stated what I’ve been trying to say

I just wanted a German product made in Germany. I should have left out all the other verbage.

I made comments in defense of hard working ppl who are in a locale where labor is inexpensive

To those of you who were offended by my post I ask that you read it more closely.

I am very offended at from the hip accusations about me and you don’t know anything about me

I am 73 years old and I am ill. My wife wanted to give me a present to lighten the load I am carrying. I don’t know how log I’ll be around.

I wanted a German car made in Germany..period

And today I canceled the bmw. We went to Porsche. They have 2 911s coming in to the dealer from the port in the next two weeks. She bought me one of them

So stop please with these hurtful and personal comments of me that are contained in some of this thread

JUST LEAVE ME ALONE!!!!!!

I’ve asked the administrator how I can have my membership removed and to also pull the post The link in the rules that u click to remove membership says go to the index. Where is the index




2nd Clarification:

What part of "I bought a German automobile and assumed, yes assumed it was manufactured in Germany.

I accept that you are all the experts having purchased multiple BMWs...so I accept your opinion as truth..

My post supports the workers on the Mexico assembly line and anyother auto assembly line where a corporation seeks a location abroad that in addition to a myriad of reasons...decides to locate where there labor costs will be lower. THERE IS A DISPARITY BETWEEN THE wages OF THE PPL ON THE GERMAN ASSEMBLY LINE AND THOSE ON THE MEXICO ASSEMBLY LINE....Therefore, why doesn't the price of the car reflect BMW's savings in labor costs.

Sir or Madam, this is not "hate speech". I am fighting wage discrimination based on location. I am advocating that the workers in the Assembly plant in Mexico should receive pay equal to their German counterparts if BMW insists on charging the same for vehicle models made in Mexico as those made in Germany.

So update: I canceled my order, forfeited my small deposit and I went to the area Porsche dealer and purchased a 911 Coupe. It will take a while to get it. It's my sunny weekend car anyway..so there is no urgency.

I would like to end my membership in this forum if someone would kindly tell me how to do that.

I should have known better to realize that the car would not be made in Germany, which the salesman clearly lead me to believe. And, I should have known better to post on an internet forum. The positive outcome is..the Porsche has always been my dream car. And it is nice to see how passionate the members here are about the brand they greatly admire.

End


Post Clarification:

Seems some member comments are not picking up on the purpose of this post. Most likely my post is confusing. Clarification:

Quality or lack of quality is not the major issue
The issue is the disparity of the cost of the M in M cars and those made in Germany. The 4Series Sport base model is close to the price of the 330i. So since labor is cheaper in Mexico, why aren't the BMW's out of this factory a lesser cost than those out of Germany. One response noted the cost of R & D...My response..R&D is factored into the German made 4 Series..the difference in cost is essentially the labor..not R&D.

Also, this was/is to be my retirement gift from my wife. I wanted another German made car...The salesman, when I ordered the build, described in detail the delivery process -- emphasizing the time it would take from the German port to the Port of Baltimore. when I discovered where the car is manufactured after finding this forum...it took the wind out of the sails of what was to be a very special gift.

What a fool I am!

As a retirement gift to myself, I've ordered a 330i sDrive. I upgraded to a metallic paint and put leather in it. The order was just before Xmas 2023. And although the car is now built and awaiting carrier assignment to the ship to POB.

AND TODAY, I'M SERIOUSLY CONSIDERING CANCELING THE ORDER and if I loose the small $1k deposit..at least I can sleep at night.

That Intro aside: Earlier this month, discovered that the German car I always wanted is manufactured in Mexico!!

21% of this car is made from parts from Mexico and 23% from Germany (based on a 330i sticker that I saw a week ago on a 330i in inventory. BMW's own promotion of their Mexico plant..addresses BMW quality...but then goes on to say that it "carefully" selects parts suppliers in Mexico -- get this -- based first on COST, and second on QUALITY

Quality: My fellow forum members say there is no quality difference that they notice between their German BMW and their Made in M BMWs. If you haven't leased the car. Wait until 2027 and beyond when leases are sold as used cars and owned bimmers are off of warrant -- Then look around and see if you see similar M in M BMWs (from 2022) driving around that are 7 to 10 or more years old. Point being the older bimmers you see are those 330i's made in Germany.

Labor Cost Differences
Why is the 330i price not significantly less than say the 4 series that is made in Germany and is a couple thousand more..but essentially the same car as the 330i.

TO Quote one Bimmerpost Forum member.."Made in Mexico, so I have a BMW Hyundai"

Why is the price not reflective of the labor and other operating costs of BMW;s Mexico factory labor force? As a retired Sr. Manger with one of the largest international construction firms..I know that a product's cost is determined by operating costs (labor, factory operations) and NOT by Capital Cost or Investment

The price of this BMW 330i that I've ordered should not be $56k..using the differential in labor costs..the car should be between $35 and 40k.
My rant is not only that I know I and others overpay for this model, it is that I and others want a German Made Car

BMW is laughing all the way to the bank! Using labor paid much less than what they pay, the German counterparts and USA BMW plant workers ,on the assembly line

BMW decided to build a plant in Mexico for an inordinate sum of money and partially because BMW could use "cheaper labor".

So BMW you eat your capital investment cost..not me or any other potential BMW purchaser.

But it's not only this cost of the car...its unfare to the consumer and certainly unfair to the BMW-Mexico assembly line worker -- it's an equity issue which ALL ADDs UP to CORPORATE GREED.

[bavarianride]

To OP, u may want to check your state's consumer protection law. E.g. in CA, any deposit is 100% refundable until the car is delivered, VA may have similar law.

In regard to San Luis Potosi plant's build quality, my SLP-built G20 330i is my 3rd BMW, and is better built than my previous 2 German-built E39 530i and F30 328i.

From my limited sample set, the BMW build quality usually is on newly introduced models, but G20 330i has been in production since 2019, and is now LCI, so there should be minimal build issue.

In regard to cost savings from Mexico factory, your estimate of $35k to $40k is about right, and in fact, I did pay $37k + tax + feeds for my 2021 330i base with minimal options.

Compared to my previous E39 and 30, this SLP-built G20 330i has lots of standard options that would have costed extra $$$$$ on E39 and F30, so I quickly bought one before BMW raised the price(and they did!).

BMW's pricing is such that the options and packages are the ones that make the most profits, so ticking many options and packages in the order definitely will hurt the value proposition.

I would say given the top-notch quality of the SLP-built 330i, the SLP staff has something to prove and is very proud of their work. Personally I won't hesitate to order my next BMW from SLP.

[JITH]

[QUOTE=Alanw330no;30850719]What a fool I am!

You said it, I agree.

[335aw]

���� Maybe head to your local Ford dealer or something. This is the most nuts post ive read in a long long time.

[madpistol]

It’s still a BMW. Most of what you’re paying for is the engineering. The R&D. That’s going to be the same no matter where the car is built. If that makes you angry, virtually every BMW SUV is built in America, not Germany. BMW has manufacturing plants all over the world. Just because it’s built in Mexico doesn’t make it any less of a BMW.

[tturedraider]

You’re a FULL?! What are you full of?

If you choose Go Advanced you can edit your title.


Apparently writing well was not a requirement for your senior manager position at this large international construction firm.

Are you aware roughly half of the pre-G20 3 Series cars you see driving around the United States were built in Rosslyn, South Africa? And about half of all X3s produced today are built in the former 3 Series plant in Rosslyn. With the exception of the X1 and X2 (and the additional X3 production recently started in Rosslyn) every single BMW SUV is built in Greer, South Carolina and has been for more than twenty years. In fact, BMW is the largest exporter of vehicles in the United States. They export 70% of the production from their South Carolina plant.

[Montaver]

What’s ironic about this post (outside of the not so subtle bigotry) is that the US has a history of producing cars that are poorly assembled and don’t last. There is a reason Detroit is a ghost town these days. I have had two cars built in Mexico, both have been faultless.

[TTG]

You got out of your way and registered on this forum to post this?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with cars produced in Mexico and for your information many of the 3 series in the past were produced in South Africa.

But the most important thing in here is:

fool1
/fo͞ol/
noun
noun: fool; plural noun: fools

a person who acts unwisely or imprudently; a silly person.
"what a fool I was to do this"
historical
a jester or clown, especially one retained in a noble household.
informal
a person devoted to a particular activity.
"he is a running fool"
archaic
a person who is duped.

verb
verb: fool; 3rd person present: fools; past tense: fooled; past participle: fooled; gerund or present participle: fooling

trick or deceive (someone); dupe.
"he fooled nightclub managers into believing he was a successful businessman"

adjective informal
adjective: fool

foolish; silly.
"that damn fool waiter"

[TurtleBoy]

Probably best not to address the fool part just to advise you to cancel your order and move on.

[j2dad5389]

Is this post a joke? Welcome to the world of automobile manufacturing. Even the brands that tote "made in America" *cough cough Ford* 99% of the parts are from China. Do you expect a vehicle that is made in its respective country to have all parts made, assembled, and built there? That would be a logistical nightmare as well as a terrible business model. Get a grip man

[G30M]

do you want to lose 1k or 65k. that is the question. i have cancelled my Tesla order twice. once for model 3 once for model Y. better to lose (not loose) 1k than 65k.

[DenHaag3er]

I wouldn’t want a Mexican bmw either. Why pay a premium for that?

[pdxtiger]

Just ban this idiot and lock this thread

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by pdxtiger

Just ban this idiot and lock this thread

I don't think being ignorant of a topic is against the forum rules and his post is just skirting possible bigotry.

What is really funny is that he thinks the labor cost difference in one vehicle is $16k - $21k less than its German counterparts. Evidently he has never heard of automation or how assembly lines work.

Hopefully he was much more informed as a senior manager of an international construction firm. Then again, he likely was in charge of their bridge/trestle department.

[RCtennis3811]

Ironically, I bet you typed this using a device made in China? 🧐

[cyam]

Look I get the OPs post here. You feel tricked when you think you are buying a German made car and the feeling (maybe even hype) that German built is better. Then find out they took a short cut and got it made elsewhere.

It's that feeling of being sold one idea and then tricked.

Regardless of whether there is any difference in quality. You feel like you are tricked. That's never nice.

Maybe if OP was aware of all this prior, he might still have bought it, if he didn't feel tricked. Maybe not. But I get how he feels.

[Pickle of the Turk]

Lmao, why not just go get a 430i if you're this concerned about where the car is built?

I also can only imagine the magnitude of the evil laughs the boys over at Munich are having daily over how they bamboozle American customers over a very, very small percentage of their global car sales because they "outsourced" some production to Mexico.

To your point of "My response..R&D is factored into the German made 4 Series..the difference in cost is essentially the labor..not R&D." LMAO - you think they only apply the R&D cost to the German built cars? Yet you were a "Sr. Manger" at a construction firm. How many times have you had to account for local labor unions etc when working outside your firm's main base (e.g., when my office is based out of Chicago and we had a job 150mi south of here, same state. I doubt you worked in a large construction firm since I'm at one now.

Lastly - credit where it's due, one of the salespeople I met a few years ago emphasized how a 3MW 330i was also German built, so I understand feeling a little cheated. But at spending $56k shouldn't you be more informed about your purchase?

Summary: To answer your question, yes, you are a full.

[tturedraider]

Just for a little clarity - it sounds like a few of you may have missed that he hasn’t spent all of his money yet and that he is, in fact, weighing the option of canceling his order and possibly losing his deposit.

For the OP, as has been mentioned, in the majority of states you can get your deposit back. In most states either state law or something specific in the order paperwork you signed, if you actually signed anything, would have to specify your deposit is non refundable. Many, if not most, BMW dealers today will order a new BMW for you with no deposit requirement at all.

[madpistol]

Bear in mind, the 4 series is made in Germany and is, unironically, more expensive. Again, most of what you're paying for is R&D, which is going to be the same no matter where the vehicle is manufactured. The shipping cost is also very expensive to move vehicles across the ocean... and then it has to get on a truck. Vehicles that are built in Mexico don't have to be put on a ship. I'm not talking about the R&D of only the 4 series. I'm talking about all BMWs; most of the money spent making each car is to help pay off the R&D expenses used in developing it. Engineering is not cheap. Labor is very cheap by comparison, no matter where they are being built. Remember, these cars are being built on an assembly line, and much of the process is already automated.

If you're expecting the 3 series to be $10k cheaper because it's made in Mexico, that's not going to happen. I'd even wager that the current 3 series would be more expensive if it was made in Germany. Nearly all of that extra expense would be down to shipping and port inspection/reconditioning after the boat ride.

Yes, a product's cost is determined by the cost of the labor and materials. The problem with comparing construction to a car is you're comparing a one-off product specially designed for a client to a mass produced product that moves, has it's own power source, and is supposed to be a luxury driving machine. These vehicles have an engine, tons of computers, software, etc. As complex as your building is, a car is even more complex, and the car costs a fraction of what a building does. Do you know why? Economies of scale. The parts and labor are NOT what cost the money. It's the development of the engine design, the computers, the software, the seats, etc. All of it works in perfect harmony to produce a machine that is a joy to drive.

You want to know why a Toyota Camry or Honda Accord costs less than a BMW 3 series? Go drive them back to back, and you will notice the difference immediately. The BMW drives so much better; it is refined, sporty, quiet, gets amazing fuel economy for the power it puts out, etc. The parts have something to do with it, but most of it... is engineering. Development. Quality control. You're paying for a BMW, no matter where it was made.

So I ask you... do you think the 3 series would be any different if it was built in Germany? It would be more expensive and there would be zero benefit to that expense.

If you're really that concerned about getting a german-made vehicle, buy a BMW 430i Gran Coupe. Problem solved.




Or, you can get deposit back and buy something else. Your choice. Vote with your wallet.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by Alanw330no

Post Clarification:

Seems some member comments are not picking up on the purpose of this post. Most likely my post is confusing. Clarification:

Quality or lack of quality is not the major issue
The issue is the disparity of the cost of the M in M cars and those made in Germany. The 4Series Sport base model is close to the price of the 330i. So since labor is cheaper in Mexico, why aren't the BMW's out of this factory a lesser cost than those out of Germany. One response noted the cost of R & D...My response..R&D is factored into the German made 4 Series..the difference in cost is essentially the labor..not R&D.

Also, this was/is to be my retirement gift from my wife. I wanted another German made car...The salesman, when I ordered the build, described in detail the delivery process -- emphasizing the time it would take from the German port to the Port of Baltimore. when I discovered where the car is manufactured after finding this forum...it took the wind out of the sails of what was to be a very special gift.

What a fool I am!

As a retirement gift to myself, I've ordered a 330i sDrive. I upgraded to a metallic paint and put leather in it. The order was just before Xmas 2023. And although the car is now built and awaiting carrier assignment to the ship to POB.

AND TODAY, I'M SERIOUSLY CONSIDERING CANCELING THE ORDER and if I loose the small $1k deposit..at least I can sleep at night.

That Intro aside: Earlier this month, discovered that the German car I always wanted is manufactured in Mexico!!

21% of this car is made from parts from Mexico and 23% from Germany (based on a 330i sticker that I saw a week ago on a 330i in inventory. BMW's own promotion of their Mexico plant..addresses BMW quality...but then goes on to say that it "carefully" selects parts suppliers in Mexico -- get this -- based first on COST, and second on QUALITY

Quality: My fellow forum members say there is no quality difference that they notice between their German BMW and their Made in M BMWs. If you haven't leased the car. Wait until 2027 and beyond when leases are sold as used cars and owned bimmers are off of warrant -- Then look around and see if you see similar M in M BMWs (from 2022) driving around that are 7 to 10 or more years old. Point being the older bimmers you see are those 330i's made in Germany.

Labor Cost Differences
Why is the 330i price not significantly less than say the 4 series that is made in Germany and is a couple thousand more..but essentially the same car as the 330i.

TO Quote one Bimmerpost Forum member.."Made in Mexico, so I have a BMW Hyundai"

Why is the price not reflective of the labor and other operating costs of BMW;s Mexico factory labor force? As a retired Sr. Manger with one of the largest international construction firms..I know that a product's cost is determined by operating costs (labor, factory operations) and NOT by Capital Cost or Investment

The price of this BMW 330i that I've ordered should not be $56k..using the differential in labor costs..the car should be between $35 and 40k.
My rant is not only that I know I and others overpay for this model, it is that I and others want a German Made Car

BMW is laughing all the way to the bank! Using labor paid much less than what they pay, the German counterparts and USA BMW plant workers ,on the assembly line

BMW decided to build a plant in Mexico for an inordinate sum of money and partially because BMW could use "cheaper labor".

So BMW you eat your capital investment cost..not me or any other potential BMW purchaser.

But it's not only this cost of the car...its unfare to the consumer and certainly unfair to the BMW-Mexico assembly line worker -- it's an equity issue which ALL ADDs UP to CORPORATE GREED.

@Alanw330no wants to retire with a made in Germany car

how much is a Audi RS3? get that one. it is basically half a Lamborghini Huracan

you're welcome

oh, yes WAG has corporate greed too.

[Sparch]

You should have upgraded to an Individual Color that they only paint in Germany ��

[NHung513]

You won’t miss out spending over 50K for a 4 cylinder.