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2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) General G80 M3 / G82 M4 Forum (2019+) Newest info updates: G80 M3 Pure, Base and Competition models (Updated May 20, 2019)

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      01-28-2019, 03:29 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer20 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3GymNut View Post
I'm in a bit of a bind. I only like to drive manual, but seeing how there are other versions that are better and more hp than the pure version it makes me feel BMW is almost pushing the base and comp for me to buy. And on top of all that the F80 I drive now has about the same HP as the G80 pure version...anybody feeling me or in the same boat mentally as me?
Yeah. Many people who would have previously bought the manual will be swayed by the extra 30-50hp of the other versions, which will reduce the take rate even more this generation. If this is how the configurations actually shake out, this is the nail in the coffin for the manual M3.

If you want this to change, buying whatever manual transmission M3 is available is the only way to help. Prove that there is still a business case for a manual version . . . "Protesting" by not buying an M3 won't help, as there won't be enough defectors to make a difference. If more people defect to RS or AMG, all that does is tell them that the DCT M3 has to be better.
There won't be a DCT M3 next generation. Automatic or Manual.
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      01-28-2019, 03:35 PM   #46
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      01-28-2019, 03:36 PM   #47
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They should give the M3 Pure a 444hp V8 or I6 naturally aspirated engine. That would make it truly "Pure"
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      01-28-2019, 03:37 PM   #48
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      01-28-2019, 03:42 PM   #49
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I'm not worried about manual vs auto (sorry manual lovers, that ship sailed long time ago for me after using DCT for some time).

I do wish, however, that they had a DCT option. I'm sure the auto will have a tiptronic/steptronic functionality where you can manually change gears and downshift, etc, but it won't be nearly as fast or as thrilling as the dual clutch. Surely it will have rev-matching as well, but again, just wished DCT would've been an option.

the key question will become price for me, between the base vs comp.

if the base (474hp) comes in around 70k, and they slap a 8-10k upcharge for the competition (closer to 80k for a base competition), i think I may have to seriously consider the possibility of a CPO 992 S for around $100k in a couple of years.

but I'm hoping I'm wrong, and the competition "base" price will be closer to 70k than to 80k
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      01-28-2019, 03:48 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankiebones View Post
i am not concerned about HP, i think once the platform evolves and tuners do their thing we will be able to tune a "pure" m3 to the same output and obviously higher than the comp pack.

This assumes its the same engine of course.
Don't bet the house yet on the tuners bumping up the HP. BMW AG is onto the DME flash tuning (too many warranty claims), the S58 hasn't even seen the light of day yet, maybe the DME has been locked down— similar to Apple iOS Secure Enclave.
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      01-28-2019, 03:52 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post
I'm not worried about manual vs auto (sorry manual lovers, that ship sailed long time ago for me after using DCT for some time).

I do wish, however, that they had a DCT option. I'm sure the auto will have a tiptronic/steptronic functionality where you can manually change gears and downshift, etc, but it won't be nearly as fast or as thrilling as the dual clutch. Surely it will have rev-matching as well, but again, just wished DCT would've been an option.

the key question will become price for me, between the base vs comp.

if the base (474hp) comes in around 70k, and they slap a 8-10k upcharge for the competition (closer to 80k for a base competition), i think I may have to seriously consider the possibility of a CPO 992 S for around $100k in a couple of years.

but I'm hoping I'm wrong, and the competition "base" price will be closer to 70k than to 80k
The automatic for the F85 is smother than the DCT— I can still feel the transmission drop when M drivelogic is set to 3 bars and WOT. The M developed AT is not the same as the series production AT. I have the luxury of comparing the DCT and M AT on a daily basis when I switch between my F83 & F85.
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      01-28-2019, 03:52 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post
I'm not worried about manual vs auto (sorry manual lovers, that ship sailed long time ago for me after using DCT for some time).

I do wish, however, that they had a DCT option. I'm sure the auto will have a tiptronic/steptronic functionality where you can manually change gears and downshift, etc, but it won't be nearly as fast or as thrilling as the dual clutch. Surely it will have rev-matching as well, but again, just wished DCT would've been an option.

the key question will become price for me, between the base vs comp.

if the base (474hp) comes in around 70k, and they slap a 8-10k upcharge for the competition (closer to 80k for a base competition), i think I may have to seriously consider the possibility of a CPO 992 S for around $100k in a couple of years.

but I'm hoping I'm wrong, and the competition "base" price will be closer to 70k than to 80k
You'd be surprised how good the ZF 8 speed auto is.

It doesn't punch as hard as the DCT on upshift but it's not slow by any means.

I went through 3 of the ZF 8's in my ISF and RCFs

I'm extremely tempted by an AWD M3, but a P-Car or '18 GTR would be in the mix
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      01-28-2019, 03:54 PM   #53
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some nice info there. smaller front wheels, hmm prob be switching that up when I get mine
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      01-28-2019, 04:04 PM   #54
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This seems like a cousin of the Porsche model. If dealerships start marking up certain models, I will absolutely be mildly upset.
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      01-28-2019, 04:05 PM   #55
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500 HP competition will be faster than F10 M5 with x drive AT.
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      01-28-2019, 04:06 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coni View Post
Do you think that the Pure model is going to be a lightweight version? Otherwise I don't understand why they'd have a model thats more "basic" than the base version.

As an aside - I hate that MB & BMW are now having these higher-end versions of the AMG & M cars that have more performance than standard AMG/M cars. It used to be that getting an M3 meant you were getting the best performance car BMW could make on the 3-series platform. Now it feels to me that M3 is being artificially restrained so that they can demand more money for the real best performance car they can make: the M3 Competition or whatever they call it. If they follow MB (and they will - BMW has shown that they will copy literally everyone this past decade) then the price difference between the M3 and the "actually this is really the M3" will be +$8k.
Amen dude. The E92 marketing method feels so long ago, which was the last time you had an M3 with one engine tune.
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      01-28-2019, 04:14 PM   #57
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M4 GTS 19F 20R I think?
Yes...but I see a GTS maybe once or twice a year. I see an M3/4, excluding mine, several times a day!
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      01-28-2019, 04:16 PM   #58
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So a 2020 M3 CS AWD with a ZF 8 , 500HP, can you say 0-60 hmm say 2.5 seconds or so.
The M5C albeit with 617HP has been clocked at 2.8 -2.9 sec. The M3 will be lighter , hopefully significantly so. Price ~$90k loaded with all the tech and full leather and CSB's .Sound reasonable? Just a guess.
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      01-28-2019, 04:17 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmer456 View Post
500 HP competition will be faster than F10 M5 with x drive AT.
It's getting tricky for them because you don't want to step on M5 toes but when you have $80k SUVs putting down 3.2 second 0-60 times you need to compete.
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      01-28-2019, 04:19 PM   #60
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Seems illogical ( to me ) that pure is below base.

Shouldnt it be
base 444hp, ( stripper ? )
pure with 475hp, ( nice starting point )
and comp with 500hp ?

Just curious if that's correct is all. No big
Cool post OP

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No she's not a stripper , Yes she's a manual.
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      01-28-2019, 04:24 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coni View Post
It used to be that getting an M3 meant you were getting the best performance car BMW could make on the 3-series platform. Now it feels to me that M3 is being artificially restrained so that they can demand more money for the real best performance car they can make: the M3 Competition or whatever they call it.
The E30 M3 EVO, a billion special versions of the E36 M3, and E46 M3 CSL (aside from ZCP), and the E90 M3 in various trims would like a word with you.
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      01-28-2019, 04:26 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibiza View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post
I'm not worried about manual vs auto (sorry manual lovers, that ship sailed long time ago for me after using DCT for some time).

I do wish, however, that they had a DCT option. I'm sure the auto will have a tiptronic/steptronic functionality where you can manually change gears and downshift, etc, but it won't be nearly as fast or as thrilling as the dual clutch. Surely it will have rev-matching as well, but again, just wished DCT would've been an option.

the key question will become price for me, between the base vs comp.

if the base (474hp) comes in around 70k, and they slap a 8-10k upcharge for the competition (closer to 80k for a base competition), i think I may have to seriously consider the possibility of a CPO 992 S for around $100k in a couple of years.

but I'm hoping I'm wrong, and the competition "base" price will be closer to 70k than to 80k
The automatic for the F85 is smother than the DCT— I can still feel the transmission drop when M drivelogic is set to 3 bars and WOT. The M developed AT is not the same as the series production AT. I have the luxury of comparing the DCT and M AT on a daily basis when I switch between my F83 & F85.
Which do you prefer?
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      01-28-2019, 04:31 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer20 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3GymNut View Post
I'm in a bit of a bind. I only like to drive manual, but seeing how there are other versions that are better and more hp than the pure version it makes me feel BMW is almost pushing the base and comp for me to buy. And on top of all that the F80 I drive now has about the same HP as the G80 pure version...anybody feeling me or in the same boat mentally as me?
Yeah. Many people who would have previously bought the manual will be swayed by the extra 30-50hp of the other versions, which will reduce the take rate even more this generation. If this is how the configurations actually shake out, this is the nail in the coffin for the manual M3.

If you want this to change, buying whatever manual transmission M3 is available is the only way to help. Prove that there is still a business case for a manual version . . . "Protesting" by not buying an M3 won't help, as there won't be enough defectors to make a difference. If more people defect to RS or AMG, all that does is tell them that the DCT M3 has to be better.
There won't be a DCT M3 next generation. Automatic or Manual.
Ok, my point still stands.
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      01-28-2019, 04:31 PM   #64
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I think the Pure version having less power (and by some rumors, a lesser engine) makes a hard sale, regardless if it came in MT or AT. People trying to frame this as "MT guys got what they asked for" are missing the point.

Like some other members have said, when you buy an M, you sort of expect to get 100% of BMWs effort at that moment in time (sans transmission choice, since that is a very personal choice). By dropping $70-80k on a car that BMW only put 90% into leaves a sour taste in your mouth, especially when there are so many great options out there for those who aren't stuck on getting a sedan.

I was originally thinking about upgrading to a MT M3, but I am really on the fence about this.
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      01-28-2019, 04:41 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brake_Late View Post
Seems illogical ( to me ) that pure is below base.

Shouldnt it be
base 444hp, ( stripper ? )
pure with 475hp, ( nice starting point )
and comp with 500hp ?

Just curious if that's correct is all. No big
Cool post OP

Stay lit 🔥
That's semantics. Don't think about it in terms of "base" being above or below "pure" or whatever.

BMW has defined what the next M3 will be, and that vision obviously includes an auto trans and M-AWD. Hence, it's the standard version.

They know that there is still a stubborn enthusiast market for 6MT+RWD, and they aren't quite ready abandon them yet. This is how they accomplish that while signaling with a wink and a nod that 6MT's are going the way of the dodo.

This helps limit the number of configurations they have to build and stock while still keeping a 6MT for those that want one.

The 6MT RWD will clearly have less capability than the AWD version, so it makes sense to market it at the low end of the range and tout its "purist" focus. The price will likely be a very marginal increase over today's M3, and I wouldn't be surprised if it had an S55 rather than and S58.
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      01-28-2019, 04:51 PM   #66
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Quote:
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My F80 was lightly equipped. Stock 18" and 6-speed. With G80 I'll go with the least expensive all wheel drive available with ZMT.
OR, you'll get the least expensive RWD with MT as option 1, or the more expensive AWD with AT as option 2. I'm hoping this is not the case as my bank account is crying out for a AWD 6MT sedan.

But I fear that the only manual option will be RWD only. I really hope to be wrong.

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