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2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) General G80 M3 / G82 M4 Forum (2019+) Newest info updates: G80 M3 Pure, Base and Competition models (Updated May 20, 2019)

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      01-28-2019, 04:54 PM   #67
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Base means base to me. So it confused my logic for a sec.

But yeah... maybe semantics.

Lol

base:
noun //
the lowest part or edge of something.


pure:
adjective //
not mixed or adulterated with any other substance or material.

synonyms: unmixed,unadulterated, unblended, uncontaminated, sterling, solid, refined, one hundred percent, 100%; More
without any extraneous and unnecessary elements.

Competition: speaks for itself.

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      01-28-2019, 04:55 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer20 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3GymNut View Post
I'm in a bit of a bind. I only like to drive manual, but seeing how there are other versions that are better and more hp than the pure version it makes me feel BMW is almost pushing the base and comp for me to buy. And on top of all that the F80 I drive now has about the same HP as the G80 pure version...anybody feeling me or in the same boat mentally as me?
Yeah. Many people who would have previously bought the manual will be swayed by the extra 30-50hp of the other versions, which will reduce the take rate even more this generation. If this is how the configurations actually shake out, this is the nail in the coffin for the manual M3.

If you want this to change, buying whatever manual transmission M3 is available is the only way to help. Prove that there is still a business case for a manual version . . . "Protesting" by not buying an M3 won't help, as there won't be enough defectors to make a difference. If more people defect to RS or AMG, all that does is tell them that the DCT M3 has to be better.
The DCT is dead, the MT outlived it already.
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      01-28-2019, 04:58 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
January 2019 Update:
  • Build details for G80 M3 (not all of this is new, but I'm listing all info here for better readability)
    • Starts production in 2020 (more likely later in the year).
    • Three performance levels: 444hp (Pure), 475hp ("base"), and 500hp (Competition).
    • Some versions will have RWD, others xDrive; both manual and automatic transmissions will be available. The reports that it will be Pure+manual+RWD, base+auto+xDrive, and Competition+auto+xDrive seem plausible but I don't yet want to claim that no other combos will be available.
    • Pure and base will have 18" front and 19" rear wheels; Competition will have 19"/20" as standard (optional on the other models).
    • Standard equipment for all models will include M diff, adaptive suspension, M seats, Live dashboard.
    • Optional equipment will be pretty much the same as the regular G20, with the notable additions of carbon ceramic brakes (possibly M3 Competition only) and of course Merino leather.
See previous updates / main info thread: https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=901686
I see a 911 in my 3 year future of this is the case and the piece of the comp pushes 90-100
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      01-28-2019, 05:05 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eeyang92 View Post
I think the Pure version having less power (and by some rumors, a lesser engine) makes a hard sale, regardless if it came in MT or AT. People trying to frame this as "MT guys got what they asked for" are missing the point.

Like some other members have said, when you buy an M, you sort of expect to get 100% of BMWs effort at that moment in time (sans transmission choice, since that is a very personal choice). By dropping $70-80k on a car that BMW only put 90% into leaves a sour taste in your mouth, especially when there are so many great options out there for those who aren't stuck on getting a sedan.

I was originally thinking about upgrading to a MT M3, but I am really on the fence about this.
One thought is BMW doesn't want to pay the development costs to make the transmission handle the additional torque from the regularly tuned s58.

Or maybe they just don't want to sell any MT or rwd cars?

Hell they could charge more for the pure and reduce a little weight and give it exclusive styling. Sounds like that's not the plan though.

It would be bananas if the had the s55 in it though, hopefully not.
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      01-28-2019, 05:06 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer20 View Post
I doubt there will be an AWD + manual version. The complexity of the M-AWD system and control software probably relies a lot on having control of the transmission as well.

Developing the AWD system + manual for such a tiny percentage of sales wouldn't be worth it.
It has already been said that the higher HP versions W/ MT are not possible due to the higher HP and the fact that the current manual tranny cannot handle it.
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      01-28-2019, 05:07 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s4awd View Post
My guess is that if they're keeping the 444hp motor with the 6MT for the Pure only, and the take is small, it's over for MT M3/4 after two years. This engine/tran combo will be a carryover with no investment. They can further limit sales if they uglify the pure with non adaptive LED's, simple wheels and less avail options and colors. Then blame it on the consumer for giving up on the MT :P
It has already been said that the higher HP versions W/ MT are not possible due to the higher HP and the fact that the current manual tranny cannot handle it. They will not developing another MT tranny for the next version M3/4
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      01-28-2019, 05:15 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coni View Post
Do you think that the Pure model is going to be a lightweight version? Otherwise I don't understand why they'd have a model thats more "basic" than the base version.

As an aside - I hate that MB & BMW are now having these higher-end versions of the AMG & M cars that have more performance than standard AMG/M cars. It used to be that getting an M3 meant you were getting the best performance car BMW could make on the 3-series platform. Now it feels to me that M3 is being artificially restrained so that they can demand more money for the real best performance car they can make: the M3 Competition or whatever they call it. If they follow MB (and they will - BMW has shown that they will copy literally everyone this past decade) then the price difference between the M3 and the "actually this is really the M3" will be +$8k.
Pure is intended to be like a 'pure M car of old'. Mania and RWD. Base and competition are intended to be going the way of their competitors - Audi 4WD and Mercedes who's latest E63 is 4WD suggesting the new C63 will follow.

I think they've done the pure to ensure they don't lose the fans of the madness the current and old M3/4s. Something Mercedes are starting to do with the AMGs (lose their legacy fan base)
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      01-28-2019, 05:24 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommysains View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coni View Post
Do you think that the Pure model is going to be a lightweight version? Otherwise I don't understand why they'd have a model thats more "basic" than the base version.

As an aside - I hate that MB & BMW are now having these higher-end versions of the AMG & M cars that have more performance than standard AMG/M cars. It used to be that getting an M3 meant you were getting the best performance car BMW could make on the 3-series platform. Now it feels to me that M3 is being artificially restrained so that they can demand more money for the real best performance car they can make: the M3 Competition or whatever they call it. If they follow MB (and they will - BMW has shown that they will copy literally everyone this past decade) then the price difference between the M3 and the "actually this is really the M3" will be +$8k.
Pure is intended to be like a 'pure M car of old'. Mania and RWD. Base and competition are intended to be going the way of their competitors - Audi 4WD and Mercedes who's latest E63 is 4WD suggesting the new C63 will follow.

I think they've done the pure to ensure they don't lose the fans of the madness the current and old M3/4s. Something Mercedes are starting to do with the AMGs (lose their legacy fan base)
BMW still has console shifter along with paddle shifters so you can shift while turning with one handed steering vs trying to use paddles on a turn which is nearly impossible in an AMG or Lamborghini Hurrican.
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      01-28-2019, 05:31 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LemonOne View Post
Interesting to see how many people will take Pure+Manual+RWD.
The ones that think manual is still better performance than technology.
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      01-28-2019, 05:35 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer20 View Post
That's semantics. Don't think about it in terms of "base" being above or below "pure" or whatever.

BMW has defined what the next M3 will be, and that vision obviously includes an auto trans and M-AWD. Hence, it's the standard version.

They know that there is still a stubborn enthusiast market for 6MT+RWD, and they aren't quite ready abandon them yet. This is how they accomplish that while signaling with a wink and a nod that 6MT's are going the way of the dodo.

This helps limit the number of configurations they have to build and stock while still keeping a 6MT for those that want one.

The 6MT RWD will clearly have less capability than the AWD version, so it makes sense to market it at the low end of the range and tout its "purist" focus. The price will likely be a very marginal increase over today's M3, and I wouldn't be surprised if it had an S55 rather than and S58.
So if 500 is starting point. I wonder if the hardware will allow for software to boost to 640 hp which would be a nice point. That being said exhaust and aside from a drop in filter won't add much in HP figs.
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      01-28-2019, 05:46 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3GymNut View Post
I'm in a bit of a bind. I only like to drive manual, but seeing how there are other versions that are better and more hp than the pure version it makes me feel BMW is almost pushing the base and comp for me to buy. And on top of all that the F80 I drive now has about the same HP as the G80 pure version...anybody feeling me or in the same boat mentally as me?
I order my cars as close to base as possible, so I am happy.
444hp on a lighter car with smaller wheels will feel quicker than more power on a heavier car with larger wheels.

The manual RWD car is supposed to drop weight, so the power to weight ratio is what you want to look for.

I will say a sedan/touring in AWD and 6MT is an empty space at the moment, so anyone looking for that combo should be disappointed if no 6MT is paired with AWD.
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      01-28-2019, 05:49 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommysains View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coni View Post
Do you think that the Pure model is going to be a lightweight version? Otherwise I don't understand why they'd have a model thats more "basic" than the base version.

As an aside - I hate that MB & BMW are now having these higher-end versions of the AMG & M cars that have more performance than standard AMG/M cars. It used to be that getting an M3 meant you were getting the best performance car BMW could make on the 3-series platform. Now it feels to me that M3 is being artificially restrained so that they can demand more money for the real best performance car they can make: the M3 Competition or whatever they call it. If they follow MB (and they will - BMW has shown that they will copy literally everyone this past decade) then the price difference between the M3 and the "actually this is really the M3" will be +$8k.
Pure is intended to be like a 'pure M car of old'. Mania and RWD. Base and competition are intended to be going the way of their competitors - Audi 4WD and Mercedes who's latest E63 is 4WD suggesting the new C63 will follow.

I think they've done the pure to ensure they don't lose the fans of the madness the current and old M3/4s. Something Mercedes are starting to do with the AMGs (lose their legacy fan base)
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      01-28-2019, 06:08 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostriderf80 View Post
The ones that think manual is still better performance than technology.
Wrong. No one wanting a manual gives a shit if the autotragic one has better performance. MT has never been solely about performance in fact, that's secondary to the entire ethos of driving a MT car.
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      01-28-2019, 06:19 PM   #80
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I think the next generation M3 will be impressive. Waiting for next generation M4 Gran Coupe.
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      01-28-2019, 06:24 PM   #81
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Pure will get the Purists to sign

Brilliant wordplay and marketing from BMW to appeal to the "purists" by giving them a stripped down car for what I bet will be somewhat close to Base model in terms of price. The toys given in the competition package are what will appeal to those that track the car that can afford to do so with a new car.
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      01-28-2019, 06:28 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpdchicago View Post
How do they get from 444hp to 500 hp. Electric motors? Water injection?
The S55 is up to 454hp in the CS models.

Small refinements could take the S58 to 500hp without the need for water injection. While a 48V system could show up on the S58, I would not necessarily expect an electric turbo (like Mercedes' M256) just yet.

At some point in the future, there's a chance we'll see PHEV M products as well, but not this generation.
Never say never.... Anything is possible.
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      01-28-2019, 06:39 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post
but I'm hoping I'm wrong, and the competition "base" price will be closer to 70k than to 80k
Unlikely. If you spec the F80 with ZCP + DCT and nothing else, you get a $75k MSRP. A G80 ZCP will probably be $78-80k (given inflation, etc...).
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      01-28-2019, 06:46 PM   #84
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I'd be interested in seeing how expensive these are going to be as every new car seems to be getting more and more expensive now to the point where they are starting to become out of reach, e.g. an M5 that costs 100k!
I might try get an F82 M4 instead for now which will be a nice jump up from my 335i. If the G80 ends up being way more expensive then I'll at least have something to enjoy in the meantime.
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      01-28-2019, 07:05 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AD18 View Post
I'd be interested in seeing how expensive these are going to be as every new car seems to be getting more and more expensive now to the point where they are starting to become out of reach, e.g. an M5 that costs 100k!
I might try get an F82 M4 instead for now which will be a nice jump up from my 335i. If the G80 ends up being way more expensive then I'll at least have something to enjoy in the meantime.
it's called inflation
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      01-28-2019, 07:13 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by PureModelsOnly View Post
So we should all be driving Teslas?
Please be advised that the OP is a Tesla owner.
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      01-28-2019, 07:22 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PureModelsOnly View Post
I got the competition package mostly for the holes in the seats
So rear seat passenger can tickle you anytime?

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      01-28-2019, 07:35 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post
I'm not worried about manual vs auto (sorry manual lovers, that ship sailed long time ago for me after using DCT for some time).

I do wish, however, that they had a DCT option. I'm sure the auto will have a tiptronic/steptronic functionality where you can manually change gears and downshift, etc, but it won't be nearly as fast or as thrilling as the dual clutch. Surely it will have rev-matching as well, but again, just wished DCT would've been an option.

the key question will become price for me, between the base vs comp.

if the base (474hp) comes in around 70k, and they slap a 8-10k upcharge for the competition (closer to 80k for a base competition), i think I may have to seriously consider the possibility of a CPO 992 S for around $100k in a couple of years.

but I'm hoping I'm wrong, and the competition "base" price will be closer to 70k than to 80k

10AT will I am sure be *faster* than a 7 speed DCT.. which is all that matters for you.. as you stated, you already have set sail on the automatic ship (which INCLUDES DCT) in other words... you picked the ship (automatic) so stick with it..
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