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2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) General G80 M3 / G82 M4 Forum (2019+) Newest info updates: G80 M3 Pure, Base and Competition models (Updated May 20, 2019)

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      01-28-2019, 07:40 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheIceStormOf06 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer20 View Post
I doubt there will be an AWD + manual version. The complexity of the M-AWD system and control software probably relies a lot on having control of the transmission as well.

Developing the AWD system + manual for such a tiny percentage of sales wouldn't be worth it.
It has already been said that the higher HP versions W/ MT are not possible due to the higher HP and the fact that the current manual tranny cannot handle it.
It handles it just fine on tuned cars. It's a load of crap. Bean counters are in charge in Munich. I love how people say Dual clutch transmissions are dead. They're only dead at BMW. DCT (PDK) is alive and well at the last remaining German performance enthusiast brand. Porsche.

BMW is too busy making SUVs for soccer mommy's and Audis for everyone on here that wants AWD in their performance BMW. Sad!
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      01-28-2019, 07:43 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coni View Post
Do you think that the Pure model is going to be a lightweight version? Otherwise I don't understand why they'd have a model thats more "basic" than the base version.

As an aside - I hate that MB & BMW are now having these higher-end versions of the AMG & M cars that have more performance than standard AMG/M cars. It used to be that getting an M3 meant you were getting the best performance car BMW could make on the 3-series platform. Now it feels to me that M3 is being artificially restrained so that they can demand more money for the real best performance car they can make: the M3 Competition or whatever they call it. If they follow MB (and they will - BMW has shown that they will copy literally everyone this past decade) then the price difference between the M3 and the "actually this is really the M3" will be +$8k.
wow... you sure have missed the ///Mark(eting)....

There have been one or more special editions of EACH iteration of the M3 to date...

Quote:
Originally Posted by E39hijinks View Post
The E30 M3 EVO, a billion special versions of the E36 M3, and E46 M3 CSL (aside from ZCP), and the E90 M3 in various trims would like a word with you.
well stated.....

there were not one but about SIX special versions of the E30 M3

Evo 1 , Evo 2 , Ravaglia, Cecotto, Europa Meister , and Sport Evo..
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Last edited by M3 Adjuster; 01-28-2019 at 07:52 PM..
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      01-28-2019, 07:46 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by seis-speed View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3GymNut View Post
I'm in a bit of a bind. I only like to drive manual, but seeing how there are other versions that are better and more hp than the pure version it makes me feel BMW is almost pushing the base and comp for me to buy. And on top of all that the F80 I drive now has about the same HP as the G80 pure version...anybody feeling me or in the same boat mentally as me?
I order my cars as close to base as possible, so I am happy.
444hp on a lighter car with smaller wheels will feel quicker than more power on a heavier car with larger wheels.

The manual RWD car is supposed to drop weight, so the power to weight ratio is what you want to look for.

I will say a sedan/touring in AWD and 6MT is an empty space at the moment, so anyone looking for that combo should be disappointed if no 6MT is paired with AWD.
This!
Why worry about what the dang thing is called?
So what if the heavier AT AWD car has higher numbers. P/W ratio is where it's at and they're all gonna be amazing to drive. I'm lusting after an AWD M3.
The"base" is still ridiculous good hp.
Comp for you overachieving knuckleheads.
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      01-28-2019, 07:49 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PureModelsOnly View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suave View Post
Brilliant wordplay and marketing from BMW to appeal to the "purists" by giving them a stripped down car for what I bet will be somewhat close to Base model in terms of price. The toys given in the competition package are what will appeal to those that track the car that can afford to do so with a new car.
I got the competition package mostly for the holes in the seats
What about the fast and furious seatbelts?
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      01-28-2019, 07:52 PM   #93
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Thanks! Glad to hear that higher performance versions with MxDrive ant a 6MT might still be a possibility...
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      01-28-2019, 08:00 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LemonOne View Post
Interesting to see how many people will take Pure+Manual+RWD.
Me. And the S58 will get a nice tune and I'll have a 6 speed rwd proper m3. Not some flashy version of a 340i lol.
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      01-28-2019, 08:11 PM   #95
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Letís keep this discussion going so that we hope BMW will actually listen since they watch this forum closely! Bmw are you listening?
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      01-28-2019, 08:21 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eeyang92 View Post
I think the Pure version having less power (and by some rumors, a lesser engine) makes a hard sale, regardless if it came in MT or AT. People trying to frame this as "MT guys got what they asked for" are missing the point.

Like some other members have said, when you buy an M, you sort of expect to get 100% of BMWs effort at that moment in time (sans transmission choice, since that is a very personal choice). By dropping $70-80k on a car that BMW only put 90% into leaves a sour taste in your mouth, especially when there are so many great options out there for those who aren't stuck on getting a sedan.

I was originally thinking about upgrading to a MT M3, but I am really on the fence about this.
HP doesn't matter. The feel of the car matters. I'd take a 275hp car with a manual over a 450hp car with a terrible ZF gearbox any day of the week.
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      01-28-2019, 08:34 PM   #97
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M3 Pure will probably be at least 150 lbs lighter than Base or Comp. If it is a unique S58 for that model, makes me wonder if it is a lighter engine due to materials or something.
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      01-28-2019, 09:02 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10" View Post
Bmw M3 -1985-2019. R.I.P
I think they've been RIP'd long before 2019.

I bet the pure will be the closest feel to an original M3. I would gladly take the E46 M3 I had over current tuned M4.
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      01-28-2019, 09:04 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostriderf80 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by LemonOne View Post
Interesting to see how many people will take Pure+Manual+RWD.
The ones that think manual is still better performance than technology.
Nobody thinks manuals are better performance anymore. That ship sailed long ago. But the experience of driving a car is more fun to me with a manual transmission, and almost no amount of power will change that equation.
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      01-28-2019, 09:09 PM   #100
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No power dome on hood?
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      01-28-2019, 09:10 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheIceStormOf06 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer20 View Post
I doubt there will be an AWD + manual version. The complexity of the M-AWD system and control software probably relies a lot on having control of the transmission as well.

Developing the AWD system + manual for such a tiny percentage of sales wouldn't be worth it.
It has already been said that the higher HP versions W/ MT are not possible due to the higher HP and the fact that the current manual tranny cannot handle it.
It handles it just fine on tuned cars. It's a load of crap. Bean counters are in charge in Munich. I love how people say Dual clutch transmissions are dead. They're only dead at BMW. DCT (PDK) is alive and well at the last remaining German performance enthusiast brand. Porsche.

BMW is too busy making SUVs for soccer mommy's and Audis for everyone on here that wants AWD in their performance BMW. Sad!
Just because transmission aren't exploding as soon as a car is tuned doesn't mean "it handles the power fine."

A transmission is designed to withstand a certain amount of stress in order to be reliable under all conditions for some amount of miles.

Exceeding that stress reduces performance or increases the likelihood of failure. Period. Either BMW is willing to accept that increased risk of failure, or they will need to improve the design.

It's called a safety factor, and it's a basic tenant of engineering. You have no way of knowing what the design limits of this trans are or what it would take to handle the extra 46hp.
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      01-28-2019, 09:10 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer20 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostriderf80 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by LemonOne View Post
Interesting to see how many people will take Pure+Manual+RWD.
The ones that think manual is still better performance than technology.
Nobody thinks manuals are better performance anymore. That ship sailed long ago. But the experience of driving a car is more fun to me with a manual transmission, and almost no amount of power will change that equation.
Yup...I love my DCT for my driving situation but I did a road trip in a buddy's OG M2 6MT and drove a good bit of the way...far more fun!
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      01-28-2019, 09:20 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer20 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheIceStormOf06 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer20 View Post
I doubt there will be an AWD + manual version. The complexity of the M-AWD system and control software probably relies a lot on having control of the transmission as well.

Developing the AWD system + manual for such a tiny percentage of sales wouldn't be worth it.
It has already been said that the higher HP versions W/ MT are not possible due to the higher HP and the fact that the current manual tranny cannot handle it.
It handles it just fine on tuned cars. It's a load of crap. Bean counters are in charge in Munich. I love how people say Dual clutch transmissions are dead. They're only dead at BMW. DCT (PDK) is alive and well at the last remaining German performance enthusiast brand. Porsche.

BMW is too busy making SUVs for soccer mommy's and Audis for everyone on here that wants AWD in their performance BMW. Sad!
Just because transmission aren't exploding as soon as a car is tuned doesn't mean "it handles the power fine."

A transmission is designed to withstand a certain amount of stress in order to be reliable under all conditions for some amount of miles.

Exceeding that stress reduces performance or increases the likelihood of failure. Period. Either BMW is willing to accept that increased risk of failure, or they will need to improve the design.

It's called a safety factor, and it's a basic tenant of engineering. You have no way of knowing what the design limits of this trans are or what it would take to handle the extra 46hp.
FYI. There are many people with both manual and DCT F80/82s with a shit ton of tuned miles on the odometer. Say 20,000+ tuned miles.

Would you consider that "some amount of miles"? Ya. I would

So it's safe to say that extra 46hp ain't doing shit.
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      01-28-2019, 09:28 PM   #104
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The pure concept sounds good but odd that it will have a lot less power assuming these reports are true. It may as well be an F80.2 with the same power unless there are substantial improvements to weight reduction, chassis, suspension, etc.
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      01-28-2019, 09:29 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10" View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by eeyang92 View Post
I think the Pure version having less power (and by some rumors, a lesser engine) makes a hard sale, regardless if it came in MT or AT. People trying to frame this as "MT guys got what they asked for" are missing the point.

Like some other members have said, when you buy an M, you sort of expect to get 100% of BMWs effort at that moment in time (sans transmission choice, since that is a very personal choice). By dropping $70-80k on a car that BMW only put 90% into leaves a sour taste in your mouth, especially when there are so many great options out there for those who aren't stuck on getting a sedan.

I was originally thinking about upgrading to a MT M3, but I am really on the fence about this.
HP doesn't matter. The feel of the car matters. I'd take a 275hp car with a manual over a 450hp car with a terrible ZF gearbox any day of the week.
Pretty soon you're going to have to.
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      01-28-2019, 09:31 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jbravo33 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10" View Post
Bmw M3 -1985-2019. R.I.P
I think they've been RIP'd long before 2019.

I bet the pure will be the closest feel to an original M3. I would gladly take the E46 M3 I had over current tuned M4.
Look into an m2 instead.
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      01-28-2019, 09:33 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer20 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheIceStormOf06 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer20 View Post
I doubt there will be an AWD + manual version. The complexity of the M-AWD system and control software probably relies a lot on having control of the transmission as well.

Developing the AWD system + manual for such a tiny percentage of sales wouldn't be worth it.
It has already been said that the higher HP versions W/ MT are not possible due to the higher HP and the fact that the current manual tranny cannot handle it.
It handles it just fine on tuned cars. It's a load of crap. Bean counters are in charge in Munich. I love how people say Dual clutch transmissions are dead. They're only dead at BMW. DCT (PDK) is alive and well at the last remaining German performance enthusiast brand. Porsche.

BMW is too busy making SUVs for soccer mommy's and Audis for everyone on here that wants AWD in their performance BMW. Sad!
Just because transmission aren't exploding as soon as a car is tuned doesn't mean "it handles the power fine."

A transmission is designed to withstand a certain amount of stress in order to be reliable under all conditions for some amount of miles.

Exceeding that stress reduces performance or increases the likelihood of failure. Period. Either BMW is willing to accept that increased risk of failure, or they will need to improve the design.

It's called a safety factor, and it's a basic tenant of engineering. You have no way of knowing what the design limits of this trans are or what it would take to handle the extra 46hp.
FYI. There are many people with both manual and DCT F80/82s with a shit ton of tuned miles on the odometer. Say 20,000+ tuned miles.

Would you consider that "some amount of miles"? Ya. I would

So it's safe to say that extra 46hp ain't doing shit.
I'd hope it would be projected to last at least 150k miles.
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      01-28-2019, 09:36 PM   #108
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Base and Pure (manual option) should have the same power figures (and ~25hp higher than ZCP today). and released 1-2 years before the Competition.

The Competition (auto) would have more power as it does right now.

That may avoid Pure buyers to be swayed to wait for Competition.
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      01-28-2019, 09:36 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suave View Post
Brilliant wordplay and marketing from BMW to appeal to the "purists" by giving them a stripped down car for what I bet will be somewhat close to Base model in terms of price. The toys given in the competition package are what will appeal to those that track the car that can afford to do so with a new car.
Semantics 🙈 maybe it's organized confusion but I'm already forgetting the order.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.top...83461.amp.html
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      01-28-2019, 10:02 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
[*]Three performance levels: 444hp (Pure), 475hp ("base"), and 500hp (Competition).
Thanks for the update!

We may guess 510hp (CS), 555hp (GTS) based on the percentage gained from G80/G82 (Competition) over current F80/F82 models?

Would be interesting to see the torque figure for upcoming M models. We're probably not too far from seeing 0-62 in sub 2.75s.

Last edited by Mii; 01-28-2019 at 10:20 PM..
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