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2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) General G80 M3 / G82 M4 Forum (2019+) Concerned about the S58 after drag racing in an X3M/X4M

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      07-20-2019, 04:57 PM   #1
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Concerned about the S58 after drag racing in an X3M/X4M

At an event, we drag raced an X3M and X4M. Both of those cars had a huge delay after flooring before the boost kicked in. Basically, you floored it and then it was like “go slowly, go slowly, count to 5, then boom acceleration”. I was told that it’s a known design choice associated with the turbos on those SUVs to make them feel more like an “X” vehicle, and that the turbos in the M3/M4 will fix this problem.

Has anyone else experienced this, and do we know if the turbos in the M3/M4 will indeed resolve this issue?
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      07-20-2019, 05:18 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nirvanayoda View Post
At an event, we drag raced an X3M and X4M. Both of those cars had a huge delay after flooring before the boost kicked in. Basically, you floored it and then it was like "go slowly, go slowly, count to 5, then boom acceleration". I was told that it's a known design choice associated with the turbos on those SUVs to make them feel more like an "X" vehicle, and that the turbos in the M3/M4 will fix this problem.

Has anyone else experienced this, and do we know if the turbos in the M3/M4 will indeed resolve this issue?
Way worse than any other turbo car when you launch it without launch control? What are you comparing it to in your experience?
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      07-20-2019, 08:31 PM   #3
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Did they pass the 1st services at 1200mil?
If not you can't launch them yet.

Second it's a heavy car but, it should never take 5 sec. Something is wrong there!!!!

M3/4 should launch like this video below.
Mine F90 M5
I just hade full Eisenmann exhaust and intake and RC ( later I added DME full tune )

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      07-20-2019, 08:37 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miko M View Post
Did they pass the 1st services at 1200mil?
If not you can't launch them yet.

Second it's a heavy car but, it should never take 5 sec. Something is wrong there!!!!

M3/4 should launch like this video below.
Mine F90 M5
I just hade full Eisenmann exhaust and intake and RC ( later I added DME full tune )

Is this launch in RWD? More tire squeal than I'd expect in AWD
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      07-20-2019, 08:44 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evanescent03 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miko M View Post
Did they pass the 1st services at 1200mil?
If not you can't launch them yet.

Second it's a heavy car but, it should never take 5 sec. Something is wrong there!!!!

M3/4 should launch like this video below.
Mine F90 M5
I just hade full Eisenmann exhaust and intake and RC ( later I added DME full tune )

Is this launch in RWD? More tire squeal than I'd expect in AWD
It's AWD and had about 750HP

It got way worse after tune 850HP

Bought new wider rims and tires. I am talking really sticky tires like R888 for better grip.

The new G80 will be a beast after tuning but i only wish better front look.

If I decide to get one I will be heavily modify and take it to a track.
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      07-20-2019, 10:52 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nirvanayoda View Post
At an event, we drag raced an X3M and X4M. Both of those cars had a huge delay after flooring before the boost kicked in. Basically, you floored it and then it was like "go slowly, go slowly, count to 5, then boom acceleration". I was told that it's a known design choice associated with the turbos on those SUVs to make them feel more like an "X" vehicle, and that the turbos in the M3/M4 will fix this problem.

Has anyone else experienced this, and do we know if the turbos in the M3/M4 will indeed resolve this issue?
Launch control or just flooring it from standing?

I watched most of the x3m/x4M reviews and at least one specifically called out flooring it and launch control are two different worlds..... you don't want violent acceleration with your Costco/Home Depot/vacation cargo in the back
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      07-21-2019, 03:22 AM   #7
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Maybe the poster above is right — these are geared to make sure that the trip to Home Depot isn't violent (given that they are SUVs after all).

Last edited by isaywhateveryo; 07-23-2019 at 12:58 AM..
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      07-21-2019, 04:26 AM   #8
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Iím fairly sure that due to emissions concerns that the engines will be identical
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      07-21-2019, 10:10 AM   #9
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Sounds like the knuckle heads didn't throw traction control fully off lol
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      07-21-2019, 10:17 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isaywhateveryo View Post
We were not allowed to use launch control, so this was just flooring it. I did put the throttle setting in Sport+ or whatever the max was on the model (I think it was Sport+ like it is in my M4). And I'm probably exaggerating about the 5 seconds, but it was a long enough lag for everyone that I talked to take notice. Maybe more like 3? It just felt like eternity.

But as I noted, the guy in charge told me that the M3/M4 would be much different. Maybe the poster above is right — these are geared to make sure that the trip to Home Depot isn't violent (given that they are SUVs after all).
I think it has more to do with the turbos spooling and the transmission making sure it's in the right gear. NA cars have instant response when punching it, turbo cars don't. I remember one of the motor trend guys talking about how a Prius could beat a Nissan GTR off the line if launch control wasn't being used because you wait, wait, wait, and then light speed.... same thing here. Same thing in my M6, M3s, X1, S3, Jeep Wrangler (new turbo), and the list goes on... a more modest press on the pedal gets it rolling sooner but if you just jam it down, usually a weird delay.
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      07-21-2019, 10:30 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evanescent03 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by isaywhateveryo View Post
We were not allowed to use launch control, so this was just flooring it. I did put the throttle setting in Sport+ or whatever the max was on the model (I think it was Sport+ like it is in my M4). And I'm probably exaggerating about the 5 seconds, but it was a long enough lag for everyone that I talked to take notice. Maybe more like 3? It just felt like eternity.

But as I noted, the guy in charge told me that the M3/M4 would be much different. Maybe the poster above is right — these are geared to make sure that the trip to Home Depot isn't violent (given that they are SUVs after all).
I think it has more to do with the turbos spooling and the transmission making sure it's in the right gear. NA cars have instant response when punching it, turbo cars don't. I remember one of the motor trend guys talking about how a Prius could beat a Nissan GTR off the line if launch control wasn't being used because you wait, wait, wait, and then light speed.... same thing here. Same thing in my M6, M3s, X1, S3, Jeep Wrangler (new turbo), and the list goes on... a more modest press on the pedal gets it rolling sooner but if you just jam it down, usually a weird delay.
The majority of the x3m reviews at the launch event commented that there was minimal to no true turbo lag from this motor which leads me to lean towards what OP was told, the software programming around throttle tip in being "softer" for the suv than they would setup for an M3.

the previous gen S55 displayed very little if any lag and it's unlikely bmw would go backwards in this respect. The B58 was an improvement over the N55 so my expectation is all things being equal the S58 will be an improvement over the S55.
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      07-21-2019, 12:34 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xlover View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by evanescent03 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by isaywhateveryo View Post
We were not allowed to use launch control, so this was just flooring it. I did put the throttle setting in Sport+ or whatever the max was on the model (I think it was Sport+ like it is in my M4). And I'm probably exaggerating about the 5 seconds, but it was a long enough lag for everyone that I talked to take notice. Maybe more like 3? It just felt like eternity.

But as I noted, the guy in charge told me that the M3/M4 would be much different. Maybe the poster above is right — these are geared to make sure that the trip to Home Depot isn't violent (given that they are SUVs after all).
I think it has more to do with the turbos spooling and the transmission making sure it's in the right gear. NA cars have instant response when punching it, turbo cars don't. I remember one of the motor trend guys talking about how a Prius could beat a Nissan GTR off the line if launch control wasn't being used because you wait, wait, wait, and then light speed.... same thing here. Same thing in my M6, M3s, X1, S3, Jeep Wrangler (new turbo), and the list goes on... a more modest press on the pedal gets it rolling sooner but if you just jam it down, usually a weird delay.
The majority of the x3m reviews at the launch event commented that there was minimal to no true turbo lag from this motor which leads me to lean towards what OP was told, the software programming around throttle tip in being "softer" for the suv than they would setup for an M3.

the previous gen S55 displayed very little if any lag and it's unlikely bmw would go backwards in this respect. The B58 was an improvement over the N55 so my expectation is all things being equal the S58 will be an improvement over the S55.
It better be! Sounds similar or marginally better from spy videos.
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      07-21-2019, 01:42 PM   #13
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FWIW, this guy noticed the same thing:

https://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showp...3&postcount=74
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      07-21-2019, 02:45 PM   #14
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I'm assuming 5 seconds is a great exaggeration since the 0-60 on these cars is better than that.
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      07-21-2019, 03:11 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trey100 View Post
I'm assuming 5 seconds is a great exaggeration since the 0-60 on these cars is better than that.
Correct. I noted as much above. Itís probably much less than 5 seconds. I was just trying to get the point across that it feels like forever.
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      07-22-2019, 04:50 PM   #16
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There can be almost a 1 second difference 0-60 between a regular launch and launch control. Spooling up the turbos really makes all that difference.
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      07-22-2019, 10:01 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xlover View Post
The majority of the x3m reviews at the launch event commented that there was minimal to no true turbo lag from this motor which leads me to lean towards what OP was told, the software programming around throttle tip in being "softer" for the suv than they would setup for an M3.

the previous gen S55 displayed very little if any lag and it's unlikely bmw would go backwards in this respect. The B58 was an improvement over the N55 so my expectation is all things being equal the S58 will be an improvement over the S55.
B58 engine has 11.0:1 compression ratio which is one of the highest for turbo engines.

S58 compression ratio is down to 9.3:1 compared to 10.2:1 of S55. This will undoubtedly introduce more lag due to higher boost needed in S58 to achieve the same power.

The new S58 on paper sounds like a JZ engine where maximum torque band is very narrow around the mid-top range. I don't like it.
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      08-01-2019, 10:43 PM   #18
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Quote:
watched most of the x3m/x4M reviews and at least one specifically called out flooring it and launch control are two different worlds..... you don't want violent acceleration with your Costco/Home Depot/vacation cargo in the back
For sure; secure the blueberries...cleaning out the side rails is a bear. [IMG][/IMG]
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      08-06-2019, 02:57 PM   #19
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For sure; secure the blueberries...cleaning out the side rails is a bear. [IMG][/IMG]
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      08-08-2019, 02:00 PM   #20
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Just drove the x3M at an M Town event in the bay area
The s58 is a good engine
Throttle response in sport+ is very good
I can see the perception of lag if you were to be in comfort mode
Steering is vastly improved over the f8x cars
It should not behave this well for such a large vehicle
Impressed
....then I made the mistake of driving the M5
Stoooopid fast
Going to cry my self home in my pedestrian peasant f80
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      08-08-2019, 02:14 PM   #21
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I haven't had a chance to drive X4M Comp at a M Town event but look forward to the test drive.

About blueberries intentionally choosing to plant themselves in every unreachable crevice: this happens so often after every trip to Costco that a warning label on the box would be appreciated by all BMW M owners.
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      08-18-2019, 11:12 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pikkagtr View Post
Just drove the x3M at an M Town event in the bay area
The s58 is a good engine
Throttle response in sport+ is very good
I can see the perception of lag if you were to be in comfort mode
Steering is vastly improved over the f8x cars
It should not behave this well for such a large vehicle
Impressed
....then I made the mistake of driving the M5
Stoooopid fast
Going to cry my self home in my pedestrian peasant f80
Funny, I had almost the exact opposite experience of the X3MComp. And I certainly wasn't in comfort mode. I had all m-drive settings (including shift speed) maxed out, and was driving in 'manual' mode. The car felt numb, the gear shifts unresponsive. Steering feel minimal. Loads of turbo lag. Yes, it eventually accelerates quite well in a straight line if you keep the revs at the top of the range (almost impossible on the test-drive course they had set up for M Town). But I have to say that I didn't get that feeling of 'loads more power' and it really didn't feel like the 4WD helped put it down any faster.

Their M5Comp was broken unfortunately so I couldn't compare the steering feel of the selectable RWD/AWD.

In contrast, the M2 Comp was a delight to drive afterwards.

But I still prefer my M4Comp to both of the cars I drove.
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