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      08-01-2019, 12:16 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
Long live the 2er Convertible.

Agreed! I plan on keeping my 2-Series convertible for a really long time.
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      08-01-2019, 12:53 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
Long live the 2er Convertible.

Agreed! I plan on keeping my 2-Series convertible for a really long time.
I owned a 1er Convertible for almost 7/ years.

The 2 Series Convertible was the nature progression.

I would've bought a 2er Vert, but unfortunately a M2 Convertible was never made.
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      08-01-2019, 02:34 AM   #157
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Yes but people expect and demand 5 star crash ratings. Soo, take your pick!
Is there no getting around that, wt proportionate to safety? What's the lightest safest vehicle?
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      08-01-2019, 03:11 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by Glazonyoursix View Post
8 series should of been a Gran Coupe from the get go of this gen. It's sad but it's understandable as they need to be profitable for future projects such as the I models.
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Originally Posted by Glazonyoursix View Post
8 series should of been a Gran Coupe from the get go of this gen.
Really? You think the bmw 8 series coupe should've just been the 4 door? I don't understand how. I think it deserves the coupe body more
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      08-01-2019, 03:17 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by ChrisK View Post
I disagree. The M2/M2C are the best M cars since the e46 imho.

The auto market is complete flux because of electrics and the fact that everyone wants to drive a crossover or SUV.

Time will tell.
I didn't say all the cars were bad. I agree on m2. But personally it's the only car I'd buy from them right now.
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      08-01-2019, 03:45 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by B777flyboy View Post
I agree on m2. But personally it's the only car I'd buy from them right now.
Totally agree with you.
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      08-01-2019, 06:00 AM   #161
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He also designed the E39 (often thought of as pre-Bangle) and the timeless Z4/Z4M coupe (I"m biased of course).
That was Joji Nagashima who did the E39 (and the E36, E90 and Z3).
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      08-01-2019, 06:03 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Same for the strategy of not producing a sub-3er sedan for the US market for a decade or more and instead rolling out an expanded 3er lineup including the F20 320i and 3 Series GT.
No doubt they seriously dropped the ball not having a 2 Series sedan.
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      08-01-2019, 06:46 AM   #163
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I sat in an M850i a few months ago.

For a flagship model, it didn't feel special in any kind of way. The old 8 really was something else.

The new one just a bloated big coupe, but nothing to set it apart.
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      08-01-2019, 08:08 AM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinM View Post
Maybe, but after all, it's auto journalism, which has no shortage of opinions that are often presented as facts.

That said, I've been a stout BMW fan since 1998, when I ordered my first BMW (a 528i MT). And I haven't strayed, although I've been tempted. But even I, a huge fan, look at some of these new "design" elements and wonder what is going on. I realize BMW has to make a profit and I also realize the Chinese market is a growing one and that base may have different tastes; but really, I look at some of the new overwrought front fascias and wonder WTF.

As for Bangle, his BMW designs are actually getting more respect now than when the cars were released. His designs were certainly polarizing, but at least they were not boring and adhered to an underlying design principle. And some of his most contested styling elements (e.g. the E65 7 series trunk) influenced other car manufacturers. He also designed the E39 (often thought of as pre-Bangle) and the timeless Z4/Z4M coupe (I"m biased of course).


THIS !!! It's almost like I wrote this, I'm in total agreement...the Bangle designs were and still are very polarizing, but indeed timeless and have the 'right' design ethos of BMW..
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      08-01-2019, 08:41 AM   #165
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really, I still do not like E60 or E65..., thought only thing good in that era was E90
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      08-01-2019, 08:45 AM   #166
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Here’s an idea: make the 8 series prettier than a pig and with an interior fitting for such an expensive car and maybe you’ll sell more of them. Also decide whether you want to make a sporty coupe to rival the 911 or a big GT to rival the S class coupe. Jesus Christ they took the awesome 8 concept car and ruined it on the way to production. I am a bmw fan through and through but Mercedes’ fluid and elegant designs lately have been on the spot (even if I hate how all their cars look identical).
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      08-01-2019, 08:46 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by clee1982 View Post
really, I still do not like E60 or E65..., thought only thing good in that era was E90
The more I see the E60 the more I love it, although I find that only certain colors suit it. But a Black E60 w/ an M Sport pack looks real good. Not as masculine or understated as the E39, but it was one of the first revolutionary model changes in design for the 5 and Bangle's design elements can be still found on current BMW's as well as other brand's vehicles.

The pre-LCI E65 is plain ugly til this day, frumpy in the front and rear, although the side profile is nice and sleek. The LCI I think cleaned up a bunch of the design problems it had, but I honestly find the E38 and pre-LCI G11/12 to be the best looking 7 series.
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      08-01-2019, 08:48 AM   #168
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Also can someone explain to me the point of the 3 and 6 GT cars? I do think that the new 6 GT has the best kidney grill and lights than any current Bmw but I don’t see the need for these cars when you have the proper sedan and the Touring versions. They should have used the 6 GT’s design for the proper 5 which looks so BLAND now.
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      08-01-2019, 08:53 AM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinM View Post
Maybe, but after all, it's auto journalism, which has no shortage of opinions that are often presented as facts.

That said, I've been a stout BMW fan since 1998, when I ordered my first BMW (a 528i MT). And I haven't strayed, although I've been tempted. But even I, a huge fan, look at some of these new "design" elements and wonder what is going on. I realize BMW has to make a profit and I also realize the Chinese market is a growing one and that base may have different tastes; but really, I look at some of the new overwrought front fascias and wonder WTF.

As for Bangle, his BMW designs are actually getting more respect now than when the cars were released. His designs were certainly polarizing, but at least they were not boring and adhered to an underlying design principle. And some of his most contested styling elements (e.g. the E65 7 series trunk) influenced other car manufacturers. He also designed the E39 (often thought of as pre-Bangle) and the timeless Z4/Z4M coupe (I"m biased of course).
About Bangle: Preach it brother! He was polarizing but even if you hated his cars you’d have to agree that there was a logic to his designs. Other than the 4 series (which I own) and maybe the new 3, I’ve hated every car that this Van Helsing guy (whatever his name is) has designed and I am convinced that he’s trolling with the iNext cars. I mean he HAS to be. Nobody is this tasteless.
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      08-01-2019, 09:18 AM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clee1982 View Post
really, I still do not like E60 or E65..., thought only thing good in that era was E90
Agreed never warmed up to the E60 then and not will I now.
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      08-01-2019, 10:10 AM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin_83 View Post
THIS !!! It's almost like I wrote this, I'm in total agreement...the Bangle designs were and still are very polarizing, but indeed timeless and have the 'right' design ethos of BMW..
Agreed too! I have said loads of times that his designs still look fresh today (other than the E65 pre LCI), one of the many reasons why I am not interested in getting one of the current crop of BMWs.
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      08-01-2019, 11:20 AM   #172
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well, I guess bangel really succeed in capturing new audience, for the record I would say Mercedes's pivot to round headlight was the best pivot (then they come back again), the first round light E class were bad, but everything afterwards looks good (the round lights) on C/E/S/SL
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      08-01-2019, 02:07 PM   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
You can understand why BMW would want to get a piece of this market because even though margins are smaller it's solid volume that the current 2 series does not fill. Funny thing is that the outgoing CLA45 is a very mediocre car as the interior in particular is embarrassing at the price point but it's the cheapest way to get the badge which whether you agree with it or not matters to a lot of people. I can't speak for Americans but the new A-Class is going to be a hit up here in Canada where we have less disposable income.
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      08-01-2019, 08:33 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by SportySpice View Post
BMW could choose to become a niche player, building a limited set of heavy steering, manual cars with stiff suspensions that appeal to enthusiasts (only). Or they can try to figure out the right mix of models to remain a volume manufacturer. Regardless of what the end state will be, I applaud the willingness to make tough decisions to build a profitable portfolio.
Can't they do both?
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      08-01-2019, 09:22 PM   #175
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FWIW, BMW has always had a much more diversified portfolio than Porsche. Porsche only sells about 18% of the cars BMW does in the US every year, and nearly 75% of Porsche’s sales have four doors.
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      08-02-2019, 02:41 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by Lucky1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SportySpice View Post
BMW could choose to become a niche player, building a limited set of heavy steering, manual cars with stiff suspensions that appeal to enthusiasts (only). Or they can try to figure out the right mix of models to remain a volume manufacturer. Regardless of what the end state will be, I applaud the willingness to make tough decisions to build a profitable portfolio.
Can't they do both?
Apparently they didn't think they can, was there any manufacture able to?

I suppose Caddlic tried, and look at it, almost all of its sedan is getting shut down..., auto journalist loved CTS driving experience, the market outside enthusiasts didn't cared...

Had Caddy done with better interior then who knows, though that would probably make it more expensive and stop being "value" proposition and just have to be better than the German equivalent everywhere.
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