[Calamari]

I did some more fine tuning of the MATCH-UP 7BMW integrated DSP after two days of listening.

I've followed the instructions in the Audio-Fischer Sound Tuning magazine for fine adjustments of phase/delay hoping to get ideal front sound stage. Once I got familiar with the process, I must say that it's fairly easy to do it by ear.

The end result is Fantastic!

Finally the stage is right in front of me. Not below, not to the middle of the car, but directly in front in the eye line. Adjusting the time aligment of left and right woofers with mids further improved the midbass and lower bass precision. All in all, this is now a great system. Even with factory woofers, I am very impressed with it. I don't think I'll upgrade the OEM under-seat woofers as i really don't see the need for that.

I am sharing my sound setup file in the attachment. Just remove the .pdf extension after downloading. Beware that my car is left-hand drive. So for RHD cars, you can just load this configuration, then navigate to TIME, and switch the time alignment/distances of left channels to right, and vice versa for fronts, rears and woofers. Center channel distance should remain as it is. This will set the stage to RHD directly in front of the driver.

Here is the link to Audiotec-Fischer Sound Tuning magazine:
http://audiotec-fischer.de.dedivirt2...70d008e6b1.pdf

I am attaching my sound setup file.(BMW G20 LHD, OEM woofers, ETON components for L,R and Center channel)
You can find it at the bottom of this post. Just remove .pdf extension and then load the .afpx file into the DSP tool.

Below is the screenshot of time-aligments for LHD. For RHD, just switch the distances of left to right, and vice versa.

Feel free to use this DSP setup file, and let me know how it sounds with your setup.

[AustraliaG20]

Awesome! Thanks very much.

Just checked what I actually have. Looks like it's the RAM:

View post on imgur.com

EDIT.

After a bit of ringing around I've bitten the bullet and getting the Match UP7DSP with module and RAM harness professionally installed and tuned on Tuesday. Hopefully with the full Bavsound setup, it'll be much better than the HiFi. Hoping it'll be even better than the HK in the X5 (albeit with less speakers).

[Calamari]

Originally Posted by AustraliaG20

Awesome! Thanks very much.

Just checked what I actually have. Looks like it's the RAM:

EDIT.

After a bit of ringing around I've bitten the bullet and getting the Match UP7DSP with module and RAM harness professionally installed and tuned on Tuesday. Hopefully with the full Bavsound setup, it'll be much better than the HiFi. Hoping it'll be even better than the HK in the X5 (albeit with less speakers).

You're welcome. The unit on your picture looks like RAM.

I expect it to be much better than HiFi and even better than HK.

I'm saying this because I remember my impressions with HK in one of the G20 test cars I drove last year. HK sounds good and is louder than HiFi. But I would never call it great. It's not clear and precise as my current system. The soundstage is not even close to a well tuned match up system.

There is a member of X3 forum from Malaysia that has F10 with HK and G01 with HiFi that he upgraded with MatchUp 7 amp and aftermarket speakers. He claims that sound in the X3 is much better than HK in his wifes F10. He said that he would never order HK again, because HiFi with matchUp amp and upgraded speakers is much better system.

Here is the link to his whole thread. It's a great read:
https://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1559784

[ETan]

Originally Posted by Calamari

I am curious about the adjustments you made to generic SUV sound configuration.

Did you do time-aligment? Equalizer or gain levels for individual speakers?

Did you play around with processing options like RealCenter and stageXpander?

I did some tweaks on the adjustments. I had setup AMP-G for the Front Center Full, which is a combination of FR-L-F, FR-R-F, Rear-L-F and Rear-R-F. But I discovered the ASD is amplified a little more. Also I noticed the chimes for my turn-signals is also amplified. I think I have to turn down the Gain on the DSP, as when I turn down the channel gain for Front Center, the ASD and turn-signal chimes is still amplified.

I'm still figuring out what the best configuration is.

[pneumodoc]

Originally Posted by AustraliaG20

Awesome! Thanks very much.

Just checked what I actually have. Looks like it's the RAM:

View post on imgur.com

EDIT.

After a bit of ringing around I've bitten the bullet and getting the Match UP7DSP with module and RAM harness professionally installed and tuned on Tuesday. Hopefully with the full Bavsound setup, it'll be much better than the HiFi. Hoping it'll be even better than the HK in the X5 (albeit with less speakers).

Really looking forward to hearing your thoughts once it's in. Will consider this at the end of the year, although seems like it's a bit difficult to find a place that sells the Up7DSP online in the US.

[Calamari]

Originally Posted by ETan

I did some tweaks on the adjustments. I had setup AMP-G for the Front Center Full, which is a combination of FR-L-F, FR-R-F, Rear-L-F and Rear-R-F. But I discovered the ASD is amplified a little more. Also I noticed the chimes for my turn-signals is also amplified. I think I have to turn down the Gain on the DSP, as when I turn down the channel gain for Front Center, the ASD and turn-signal chimes is still amplified.

I'm still figuring out what the best configuration is.

I've left the gain physical knob at the minimum position. It comes from the factory set to minimum, and it also says in the manual that for direct replacement in BMW HiFi system gain should be left at the lowest value.

Why did you put front and rear input into front center full? As I've read in the docs, It should be only a.combination of the front L and R. Especially because RealCenter algorithm relies only on the front channels.

[ETan]

Originally Posted by Calamari

I've left the gain physical knob at the minimum position. It comes from the factory set to minimum, and it also says in the manual that for direct replacement in BMW HiFi system gain should be left at the lowest value.

Why did you put front and rear input into front center full? As I've read in the docs, It should be only a.combination of the front L and R. Especially because RealCenter algorithm relies only on the front channels.

Did some research in the car with the 7DSP. The turn-signal is only in the Front-Left channel. Yes I turned the System gain on the 7DSP to minimum. But since the signal is only in the F-L channel, I need to figure out how minimize that sound, but keeping the music audio as optimal as possible.

The original config-file from Audio-Tec has the Front-Center-Full on the AMP Out E, while my G21 has the center on AMP Out G. Do I have to change this AMP-out channel or stick on the config Audio-Tec provided?

[Calamari]

Originally Posted by ETan

Did some research in the car with the 7DSP. The turn-signal is only in the Front-Left channel. Yes I turned the System gain on the 7DSP to minimum. But since the signal is only in the F-L channel, I need to figure out how minimize that sound, but keeping the music audio as optimal as possible.

I would guess that the only way to turn down the indicator sound level is through coding.

Originally Posted by ETan

The original config-file from Audio-Tec has the Front-Center-Full on the AMP Out E, while my G21 has the center on AMP Out G. Do I have to change this AMP-out channel or stick on the config Audio-Tec provided?

That is strange. For me G channel is Subwoofer 2 (a.k.a right sub). Subwoofer output channels can push 160W @2ohm per channel , while mid/high channels are only pushing 65W @4ohm per channel.

You can do a quicj test. Just load the Audiotec-fischer's Limousine setup and check if it sounds good. If you have LHD car, you can use my setup which is basically standard limousine config with fine time-alignments (for driver-centered front stage.)

[ETan]

Originally Posted by Calamari

I would guess that the only way to turn down the indicator sound level is through coding.



That is strange. For me G channel is Subwoofer 2 (a.k.a right sub). Subwoofer output channels can push 160W @2ohm per channel , while mid/high channels are only pushing 65W @4ohm per channel.

You can do a quicj test. Just load the Audiotec-fischer's Limousine setup and check if it sounds good. If you have LHD car, you can use my setup which is basically standard limousine config with fine time-alignments (for driver-centered front stage.)

Hi Calamari, first of all to prevent misunderstanding. I had ordered the Match Up 7BMW, but after trying to install into my car I discovered I have the HIFI RAM, which is not compatible with the 7BMW. After contacting the distributor/reseller in the Netherlands, they changed the 7BMW with the 7DSP including the MEC-Analog. I also received the PP-BMW 1.7RAM harness.

According to the 7DSP installation manual (fig. 1 page 22), I read the subwoofer out is on E and F, while the center output is on G. I did check this using the DSP tool and identify each channel with the speaker connected.

I will try to use your settings to see if it makes a difference.

[Encanto]

Originally Posted by ETan

According to the 7DSP installation manual (fig. 1 page 22), I read the subwoofer out is on E and F, while the center output is on G. I did check this using the DSP tool and identify each channel with the speaker connected.

I will try to use your settings to see if it makes a difference.

Subwoofer output is channel H (RCA line out), woofer outputs are channels F and G, center is channel E.

[Calamari]

Originally Posted by ETan

Hi Calamari, first of all to prevent misunderstanding. I had ordered the Match Up 7BMW, but after trying to install into my car I discovered I have the HIFI RAM, which is not compatible with the 7BMW. After contacting the distributor/reseller in the Netherlands, they changed the 7BMW with the 7DSP including the MEC-Analog. I also received the PP-BMW 1.7RAM harness.

According to the 7DSP installation manual (fig. 1 page 22), I read the subwoofer out is on E and F, while the center output is on G. I did check this using the DSP tool and identify each channel with the speaker connected.

I will try to use your settings to see if it makes a difference.

Hi ETan.
This different layout of output channels is probably the difference between MatchUP 7BMW and 7DSP unit.

Regardless of the difference in the output channel letters, you can set the corresponding channels with the delays/distance values from my setup and see if it works for you. The best test tracks to determine the center of the stage are the ones with pronounced vocals and not much instruments.

My configuration file is from MatchUp 7BMW amp(with integrated DSP). BRAX, HELIX and MATCH are just different brands under the Audiotec-Fischer group. If you see BRAX DSP in my config file, then 7BMW has BRAX DSP inside.

If my file doesn't work with 7DSP amp, you can just pull standard BMW touring setup (or limousine, cause some people said that limo setup works better in a touring) for 7DSP, and then set time delays/distances for all channels manually. It's pretty much what I did (along with a few more options like "light" effect of pronounced treble to give a little brightness to my ETON tweeters. I think I also enabled StageXtender effect).

This should enough to hear a noticeably improved sound from your system.

Let us know how it goes.

[Encanto]

Originally Posted by Calamari

Hi ETan.
This different layout of output channels is probably the difference between MatchUP 7BMW and 7DSP unit.

The UP channel assignments are fixed to the harness pin assignments:

-Channel A/B = Front speakers
-Channel C/D = Rear speakers
-Channel F/G = Woofers
-Channel E = Center

The UP 7BMW and the UP 7DSP are the same units, the difference is the 7BMW has its 12+ and ground connections in the same Molex 20-pin connector as its inputs and outputs, the 7DSP has its 12V and ground in a separate connector and not in the Molex. The 7BMW can also be powered by the 12V and ground in the separate connector.

If you got a 7BMW for your F30 HiFi and now you get a G20 HiFi then you can install the 7BMW in the G20 HiFi as long as you use the new G20 RAM harness and the 2ch add-on module.

[Calamari]

Originally Posted by Encanto

The UP channel assignments are fixed to the harness pin assignments:

-Channel A/B = Front speakers
-Channel C/D = Rear speakers
-Channel E/F = Woofers
-Channel G = Center

The UP 7BMW and the UP 7DSP are the same units, the difference is the 7BMW has its 12+ and ground connections in the same Molex 20-pin connector as its inputs and outputs, the 7DSP has its 12V and ground in a separate connector and not in the Molex. The 7BMW can also be powered by the 12V and ground in the separate connector.

This was my understanding too, but when I connect my 7BMW amp to the DSP tool I see channel E running the center, and F/G running the woofers. I've confirmed this by manually turning the channels on and off. Apparently there might be small differences between different units or within the DSP software.

[ETan]

Originally Posted by Calamari

This was my understanding too, but when I connect my 7BMW amp to the DSP tool I see channel E running the center, and F/G running the woofers. I've confirmed this by manually turning the channels on and off. Apparently there might be small differences between different units or within the DSP software.

That's odd. Which version of the DSP-tool are you using? I have used version 4.65a.

[Calamari]

Originally Posted by ETan

That's odd. Which version of the DSP-tool are you using? I have used version 4.65a.

The same as you: v4.65a.

[Encanto]

Originally Posted by Calamari

This was my understanding too, but when I connect my 7BMW amp to the DSP tool I see channel E running the center, and F/G running the woofers. I've confirmed this by manually turning the channels on and off. Apparently there might be small differences between different units or within the DSP software.

You are correct (pins 24 and 28 are the center, channel E):

[ETan]

Originally Posted by Encanto

You are correct (pins 24 and 28 are the center, channel E):

Looking at both documentations (7BMW and 7DSP) they have add the channel letter to the Pin-assignments.
I also had checked each channel, by muting all other channels within the DSP tool except the one to check, which speaker gave sound.



I had to reconfigure the channel routing. This is how I have configured the IO Main routing.

[Encanto]

Originally Posted by ETan

Looking at both documentations (7BMW and 7DSP) they have add the channel letter to the Pin-assignments.
I also had checked each channel, by muting all other channels within the DSP tool except the one to check, which speaker gave sound.

Attachment 2391013

I had to reconfigure the channel routing. This is how I have configured the IO Main routing.
Attachment 2391022

Notice that the physical pin assignments for the center speaker are the same on both units, however it seems that Match changed the DSP PC-Tool assignments of the center channels in the 7DSP - it assigned channel G to pins 24/28 on the 7DSP, and channel E on the same 24/28 pins on the 7BMW.

Somehow it only makes sense to Match.

[ETan]

Originally Posted by Encanto

Notice that the physical pin assignments for the center speaker are the same on both units, however it seems that Match changed the DSP PC-Tool assignments of the center channels in the 7DSP - it assigned channel G to pins 24/28 on the 7DSP, and channel E on the same 24/28 pins on the 7BMW.

Somehow it only makes sense to Match.

I think I have it set up right. I need other audience to verify my settings.

Maybe a personal preference, but I had to tweak the low frequencies for getting more bass from the front and rears to fill up some gaps between the subwoofers.

[Calamari]

Originally Posted by ETan

I think I have it set up right. I need other audience to verify my settings.

Maybe a personal preference, but I had to tweak the low frequencies for getting more bass from the front and rears to fill up some gaps between the subwoofers.

Interesting. I find the lower end range slightly more pronounced with OEM woofers and Eton mid/tweeters. This is exoected since OEM speakers are a few decibels more sensitive than ETONs.

Did you enable bass enhancement effects?

Also, is.there a reason why you combined all channels with 25% instead of mixing only 2 left channels to the left woofer, and 2 right channels to the right woofer. Despite the fact that low frequencies are not very directional, it still doesn't make sense that left woofer gets half of the lower end from the right side and vice versa.

I just double checked the standard DSP setup file from Audiotec-Fischer, and they are mixing only two left channels (50% each) for left woofer, and right channels to right woofer.

What are your first impressions after initial setup?

[ETan]

Originally Posted by Calamari

Interesting. I find the lower end range slightly more pronounced with OEM woofers and Eton mid/tweeters. This is exoected since OEM speakers are a few decibels more sensitive than ETONs.

Did you enable bass enhancement effects?

Also, is.there a reason why you combined all channels with 25% instead of mixing only 2 left channels to the left woofer, and 2 right channels to the right woofer. Despite the fact that low frequencies are not very directional, it still doesn't make sense that left woofer gets half of the lower end from the right side and vice versa.

I just double checked the standard DSP setup file from Audiotec-Fischer, and they are mixing only two left channels (50% each) for left woofer, and right channels to right woofer.

What are your first impressions after initial setup?

I have enabled all enhancements within the FX tab. But I'm still not happy with the setup. As the rears are not so loud in respect with the front.

I was just playing around with the Bass and I thought to mix both lef and right for the Subs. The bass sounds great, but using the time alignments, it looks like its comes from front.

I bought a DaytonAudio UMM-6 Calibrated USB Measurement Microphone, to measure the dynamics within the car. Currently I used the default equalizer settings from AudioTec.

[ETan]

Originally Posted by ETan

I have enabled all enhancements within the FX tab. But I'm still not happy with the setup. As the rears are not so loud in respect with the front.

I was just playing around with the Bass and I thought to mix both lef and right for the Subs. The bass sounds great, but using the time alignments, it looks like its comes from front.

I bought a DaytonAudio UMM-6 Calibrated USB Measurement Microphone, to measure the dynamics within the car. Currently I used the default equalizer settings from AudioTec.

I have changed the IO input for Main routing. Removed FR, FL, RL, RR for subwoofer 1 and 2 (channel E & F) and replaced with Aux L and Aux R. Creating a big difference in the positive way. More massive bass appears. I’m happy with the new setting.