[zx10guy]

I recently met with my financial advisor to catch up on things.

I initially wanted to retire in 3 years, but that got flushed down the toilet with the divorce. Not so much from the financial asset aspect but from the child support I'll have to pay for the next 10 years. I asked my attorney about retiring early and was a bit surprised with her surprise. She asked why I would retire early. I said because I've been through enough stress in my life and was thinking of being able to just enjoy life without the stress of work. My question to her was around child support being modified if I were to retire early. She consulted with other colleagues where they came up with the opinion that the court wouldn't look kindly on retiring early. It would probably be viewed as intentional self impoverishment and I would be stuck at paying what I'm paying now working in full capacity. I say this for others that may be in my situation.

The other thing I had to come to terms with on retiring early. A friend and I were discussing this a couple of months ago. He looked at me and asked what I would do with all my free time. I looked at him and thought....I don't know. I could just do whatever I want but then how long will that last before I end up just sitting around doing nothing. As I get older, I firmly believe those that stay engaged with something that exercises their mind and body tend to be those that stay healthy and physically mobile well into their old ages. Those that just sit around doing nothing tend to waste away. The trick with having money to retire is that it puts you into a category where you have F' you money. It allows you to pick and do things you normally don't have the option to. So you work at a place and things are not working out. You can say F' it and just quit. Then take your time to find the next best gig to work for. Wanting to work is very different than needing to work.

One of the posters mentioned cancer. I've also been affected by this. So health is that variable that no one can plan for. You can only do what you can to try to lower your risk of having a major illness. With that said, my financial planning has bee severely altered due to my cancer history. From having to think about health care costs in retirement to not being able to buy life insurance. I didn't have life insurance at the time I had cancer because I was single, somewhat young, and didn't do any risks/habits that would contribute to cancer. Now I can't get any reasonable coverage without paying an arm and a leg for it.

With my retirement planning, I've been pivoting to also consider taxes at retirement. Most of my retirement assets are in a IRA/401k type account. I've been contributing to a non qualified account to have the ability to pick and choose where my monthly income streams are coming from.

I've also subscribed to the ideology of not paying off my houses but to pour that money into stock investments. The idea is to leverage compounding and time in the market. But with that said, as I get closer to retirement, I will start to pivot and begin to accelerate my payments to hopefully get myself to the point of having both mortgages paid off.

But to the topic of this thread, I'm still trying to figure out where that number is for me to feel comfortable to retire.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by hubbahubba

I voted 3M. Gotta have enough for greens fees a couple times a week, and a decent sailboat to stay and sail in when visiting my son and future grandkids every summer in Seattle. Can't do the boat with 1M, and expect to have much left...

Not sure if you're saying this in jest or not. But you don't need $1M to have a sailboat. Having just crossed two years of owning my 28.5 footer, I can honestly say my overall costs of owning the boat has not been anymore than my motorcycle habit. I'll see how bad the costs will be when I haul my boat out next year for maintenance: cleaning/painting the hull bottom, inspection/replacement of the through hulls, inspection/replacement of the zincs, inspection of the prop/shaft, and inspection of the rudder bearing. If you are handy, much of the costs can be kept down by doing the work yourself. I just did some maintenance to my inboard diesel myself.

[hubbahubba]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Not sure if you're saying this in jest or not. But you don't need $1M to have a sailboat. Having just crossed two years of owning my 28.5 footer, I can honestly say my overall costs of owning the boat has not been anymore than my motorcycle habit. I'll see how bad the costs will be when I haul my boat out next year for maintenance: cleaning/painting the hull bottom, inspection/replacement of the through hulls, inspection/replacement of the zincs, inspection of the prop/shaft, and inspection of the rudder bearing. If you are handy, much of the costs can be kept down by doing the work yourself. I just did some maintenance to my inboard diesel myself.

I had a 36' sailboat for about 5 years. I figure that boat cost me about $1000/month, all in. The next one will be in the 43'-46' range. The bigger the boat, the bigger the slip fees, insurarance, slip taxes, boat tax, hull cleaning, general maintenance (which of course I can do some myself), and so on. By the time I get there, guessing $2000/month should cover it all. That said, it was partly said in jest, but I don't want to be boat poor, either.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by hubbahubba

I had a 36' sailboat for about 5 years. I figure that boat cost me about $1000/month, all in. The next one will be in the 43'-46' range. The bigger the boat, the bigger the slip fees, insurarance, slip taxes, boat tax, hull cleaning, general maintenance (which of course I can do some myself), and so on. By the time I get there, guessing $2000/month should cover it all. That said, it was partly said in jest, but I don't want to be boat poor, either.

Great to see another fellow sailor here.

I guess it's just context on as you mentioned size of boat along with the other things that go with it.

I bought mine used and felt I got a great boat for $16k. Had all the instrumentation I needed included. Slip fees for me are $2400 a year which includes water and electricity. Insurance is $240 a year. And bi yearly registration fee is $24. Would these numbers go up if I got into a bigger boat? Yes, of course. I don't see me getting into another boat anytime soon for the type of sailing I do. I have kicked around the idea of just selling everything and getting a nice catamaran to go island hopping when I retire; to bring this tangent back to the topic of this thread. I know nice catamarans go for $750k and up in the range I'm looking. But if I were to do this, the cat would be my home.

[hubbahubba]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Great to see another fellow sailor here.

I guess it's just context on as you mentioned size of boat along with the other things that go with it.

I bought mine used and felt I got a great boat for $16k. Had all the instrumentation I needed included. Slip fees for me are $2400 a year which includes water and electricity. Insurance is $240 a year. And bi yearly registration fee is $24. Would these numbers go up if I got into a bigger boat? Yes, of course. I don't see me getting into another boat anytime soon for the type of sailing I do. I have kicked around the idea of just selling everything and getting a nice catamaran to go island hopping when I retire; to bring this tangent back to the topic of this thread. I know nice catamarans go for $750k and up in the range I'm looking. But if I were to do this, the cat would be my home.

Agreed! Love chatting with others who know the feeling of freedom when you hoist the sails and head out. I think maybe it was Mark Twain that said something like "There is no better time spent than tinkering around on a boat". That has always rung true for me.

IF I ever found myself not married, (hoping that never is the case), your plan to sail off is exactly what I would do also. I could spend years just bouncing around in the Bahamas! Mrs Hubba enjoyed her time with me when she could go, but having the boat as the sole home is something to which she is adamently opposed. The day will come when it is time to do it again, and to have something in the PNW for summertime sailing and winter time visits is really intriguing.

[3.0L]

Originally Posted by WagonMaverick

$4m... At age 60 gives you and your spouse enough to live on comfortably to late 80's ..paying decent $4k/mo mortgage (I want a second home), car payments (I want new cars in retirement), plus home expenses and an extra $1,500/month. You can still layer SS payments on top of this. You have to think grandkid expenses plus family vacations, plus I want to do some cool shit in my 60's and not be burdened by "I wish I could" - I just had this call with my financial planner today.

$4 million conservatively invested in mutual funds would generate $160,000.00 a year (4%) without depleting the principal investment. So, one could live to be 100 years old and end up leaving $4 million to their heirs.

I've been pulling 4% a year out of my investments and my portfolio is worth more today than it was when I retired 11 years ago. It works, just as my investment counselor told me 30 years ago.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

It's pretty crazy (and a bit amusing) to read the huge numbers people are throwing around in this thread. $5M+? Really? On average, Americans have around $140K saved for retirement and ~10% of retirees right now have $1M or more in assets/savings. That means the vast majority of 40-60 y/o's in this country aren't even close to $1M in savings/investments/assets. You best be saving a mountain of money right now if you intend on retiring in the next 10-20 years with $5M+

I think you're forgetting we're in a BMW forum - we don't represent the majority of Americans to begin with.

I actually have plans (and contingencies) in place for retirement based on conservative - likely - ambitious goals. My "likely" goal has me with $5M by age 60 based on investments into 401k + individual investment accounts which I've been tracking and adjusting for since my 20s. I'm currently 37 and I've settled that by age 60, being completely debt free and with $5M in investments, we should be able to live off mostly interest/returns assuming low-risk index fund returns without much difference in our standard of living. This is all not including additional income from sources like social security, real estate investments, etc.

So yeah, I don't think the $5M figure is crazy just because it doesn't represent majority of Americans.

[G MONEY]

I'm looking for a nice older woman with money !! I will suck it up for a few years/ take care of her When she passes, grab a 25 year old and go crazy🤣😉

[2000cs]

It really isn’t as simple as “a number” because of pensions, social security, and part-time or consulting work. In other words, income streams offset expenses at least partially, thereby reducing the number.

For me, I retired with no pension (just 401(k)), and the assumption that SS would in some way be eliminated by my max benefit age, so effectively it is zero. Pretty conservative. I also used 3% (expenses, pre-tax, <= 3% of invested assets, excluding home, cars, etc). So for example expenses of $100k would require $3.3 million in invested funds. That is also conservative, but allows the market and income to dip in the early years of retirement with sufficient capital to recover.

My actual retirement was Jan 2021. Decent market that year but I consulted long enough to earn my expenses plus some extra, so a positive year. 2022 the market hurt me but I again consulted (different client) for more than my annual expenses. 2023 looks like I will again consult, this time for a couple of years worth of expenses. I don’t expect a full portfolio recovery in 2023 but I’m able to give the accounts time to come back as much as they can, and to reallocate a bit as well.

So far it has worked out for me financially. A conservative retirement approach but aggressive investing approach makes me happy (both because I don’t expect to die soon). I’ll take SS when I need to if it is still available, and start drawing down the 401(k) as soon as I stop consulting so I can minimize RMDs later (and the taxes on them).

As to time, I’ve had plenty to do even without the intervention of consulting work. So that worry disappeared.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

I think you're forgetting we're in a BMW forum - we don't represent the majority of Americans to begin with.....

I have a strong suspicion that many affluent 30 to 50 something y/o BMW owners spend much of what they earn on big homes, vacation homes, cars, boats, etc. and have little investments/retirement to account for their lavish lifestyles. Plus many of the things they have aren't even paid off. Why do I think this? Because most millionaires in this country live quite conservative lifestyles and most high earners ($250K+ salary) do not have remotely enough in retirement to sustain their lifestyles. Many assume/plan to dump a lot of money in towards the end of their work careers and sometimes that doesn't pan out because of health issues, divorce, job/business loss, etc.

All of my friends (45-50 age group) that bring in $200K+/yr have around $100-300K in investments. That is just bonkers to me. They lived big early on but now they're seeing that they'll need to work way into their 60s now. That's not for me, that's for sure.

[Joe T]

It's a moving target. I'd like to keep a standard of living that we enjoy today through retirement, but realistically know we wont/cant

I just turned 55, and if you asked me 20 years "could we" have what we have saved now, there was no way. I also never thought I'd live to 55. I'd prefer to retire sooner than later and think we have enough money now, and if we stopped spending like drunken sailors we probably could.

My wife, on the other hand is afraid we'll never have enough

Ironically we just met with my mother's attorney, she is the deed holder of 2.5 houses, all paid free and clear. Smaller ranches in the Boston suburbs (I think total is about $1.5mm in real estate and "maybe" $100k in other assets). I agreed to taking nothing in the estate. My siblings will get a home each (they currently live in those homes rent free) and the 1/2 owned home will be going for sale soon and go towards her care as she's in failing health as she soon turns 80. At $7K a month for home care, that's about 5 years of care

My mother's wish is to split 3 ways... but my siblings would have to sell to pay me 1/3 because they don't have a pot to piss in, and they'd become homeless in the process of buying me out

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

I have a strong suspicion that many affluent 30 to 50 something y/o BMW owners spend much of what they earn on big homes, vacation homes, cars, boats, etc. and have little investments/retirement to account for their lavish lifestyles. Plus many of the things they have aren't even paid off. Why do I think this? Because most millionaires in this country live quite conservative lifestyles and most high earners ($250K+ salary) do not have remotely enough in retirement to sustain their lifestyles. Many assume/plan to dump a lot of money in towards the end of their work careers and sometimes that doesn't pan out because of health issues, divorce, job/business loss, etc.

All of my friends (45-50 age group) that bring in $200K+/yr have around $100-300K in investments. That is just bonkers to me. They lived big early on but now they're seeing that they'll need to work way into their 60s now. That's not for me, that's for sure.

I'm in agreement... my point was that it's not so far fetched to hear people aim for $5M in retirement investments. It doesn't represent the majority, but neither does this forum.

[UncleWede]

Originally Posted by Joe T

I just turned 55, ... I also never thought I'd live to 55.

56, and because of the die-a-beetus, I didn't think I'd live to 55 either. I recently inherited 2 properties that are completely paid off, and generate almost enough to replace my wife's normal salary.
I recently also just got a significant salary increase, so I'm channeling all that new-found income into savings and corporate-sponsored investments. Still not the the $4m mark, but getting there faster now.

Plus, there's the 18 of us at work that are going to win Mega tonight

[F32Fleet]

Only thing worse than being poor is being young and rich-poor.

$10M+

[JP10]

I have about 35 years left work work lol. With that said our plan is pretty simple and half figured out. Max out 401k - luckily have been able to do this for the last few years now, another 10% of mine towards investments - typically voo or some other etf that’s lower risk. 50% of hers towards savings which I’ll soon partial divert to investments. Figure it’ll pan out just fine. Hope to have more than $5mil come retirement age if all goes well.

Idk what amount would be necessary for us to retire - things are just getting going so I feel the question is more difficult

[MyZ4Coupe]

Have any of you read the book Die With Zero? Interesting book and while I am not going to follow his proposed ideas to a T or even closely a lot of the book was very thought provoking and has made me look a retirement and savings differently.

[Bking60]

I already did it, retired at 58. Should have done it at 56.

[calvin07]

If there would be no inflation ever, I'd say 3M now to retire. But since we all know there will be inflation, I say 10M. I know I can still invest the 3M and let it make money for me in th future but if I have 10M I can also share it with my mom and sister to help them out. We can all retire together.

[Gugge72]

$1 million would be enough

[Humdizzle]

i'd probably need 5M.

most of my stuff is paid off. 5M / 40 years is about 125k per year take home. i could live with that. i'm assuming none of this is being invested or used to make more money.

[geko29]

In today's dollars, $2.5M and the house paid off, which will be done long before we retire. We could pay it off today, but at 2.5% why? That would give us $100k/yr plus whatever meager SS we get to live on, with minimal fixed expenses.

We're a little over 2/3 of the way there, and I project we'll actually be over $5M by the time we're both retired, so it's all good.

[wtwo3]

Looks like I already got my retirement plan all worked out