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2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) General G20 Sedan / G22 Coupe / G26 Gran Coupe Discussions 330i xDrive Car and Driver Review (Not Positive)

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      05-03-2019, 02:10 PM   #221
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Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
BMW have been making cars that require options to make it drive and handle in a sporty way, add creature comforts than base, for generations. Not sure where the idea comes from that this is a new or recent thing.
Yes since the Fxx generation.
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      05-04-2019, 04:14 AM   #222
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Yes since the Fxx generation.
Perhaps we look at in different ways, but my memory goes back to the first 3 and 5 series. I recall the 'E30' was so different, according to specification. That takes us back a few years and generations.

In more current generations, E9x models required the right specification. Examples could be chalk and cheese, due to setups.
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      05-05-2019, 06:24 PM   #223
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Coming from a 2008 335xi I hope I won't be bored of the G20 330xi. Reading some comments people make it seem 330 is boring and waste of time.
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      05-05-2019, 06:30 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by ar2020 View Post
Coming from a 2008 335xi I hope I won't be bored of the G20 330xi. Reading some comments people make it seem 330 is boring and waste of time.
Who cares about what other people say? Form your own opinion about the car.
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      05-07-2019, 06:59 AM   #225
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Coming from a 2008 335xi I hope I won't be bored of the G20 330xi. Reading some comments people make it seem 330 is boring and waste of time.
Most of their opinions are based on a half-assed article that they read. Take a 330i for a test drive and see how you like it.

As for getting bored with it over time, the majority of cars can get boring to own after a while. It's why being into cars can be a curse.
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      05-11-2019, 03:47 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by Fuller View Post
...
As for getting bored with it over time, the majority of cars can get boring to own after a while. It's why being into cars can be a curse.
Main reason why I lease....
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      05-12-2019, 02:38 AM   #227
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Originally Posted by Fuller View Post
As for getting bored with it over time, the majority of cars can get boring to own after a while. It's why being into cars can be a curse.
That’s probably why BMW took away the 6mt on the G20. Automatics are boring so people lease them knowing they’ll quickly tire of the car. Lets BMW constantly churn people into new vehicles.
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      05-12-2019, 07:15 AM   #228
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Main reason why I lease....
Stop. It’s the monthly payment
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      05-12-2019, 07:17 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by ssquared View Post
That’s probably why BMW took away the 6mt on the G20. Automatics are boring so people lease them knowing they’ll quickly tire of the car. Lets BMW constantly churn people into new vehicles.
Also to sell those x1 x2 x3
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      05-12-2019, 08:09 AM   #230
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Stop. It’s the monthly payment
LOL, yea that too!
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      05-12-2019, 01:34 PM   #231
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Yes I checked and it had the sport diff option.
the M340i has a locking rear diff as well.
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      06-08-2019, 09:36 PM   #232
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Originally Posted by trey100 View Post
Yes I checked and it had the sport diff option.
Seems like a lot of people are comparing the M340 to the B9 S4. I assume that this is because they are in the same price range and have similar specs.

Unfortunately, it’s not a great comparison. First of all, the Audi Sport Diff blows every other sport diff away because it has too... the car would be a nightmare to drive without it.

That said, I wouldn’t advise anyone to buy the B9 S4. I bought mine for stupid reasons. It has a nice interior and looks really aggressive lowered with a honey comb grill. https://tagmotorsports.com/gallery/a...-2-wheels.html

So it looks great like the one in the link, and it seems ok driving wise during a test drive, but it’s a different animal once it’s warmed up.

For starters, you don’t realize this during a test drive but all of the settings for drive mode only change chassis parameters. The car really only has two drive modes which are drive and sport. If that weren’t bad enough, the drive mode controls both the engine map and transmission sift points.

Dynamic only makes the suspension stiffer, sport diff more aggressive, exhaust louder, and changes steering feedback.

The drive mode is ok until the car is good and warm: Once the car is warm and you scooting around town it turns into a dangerously laggy POS in drive mode. You step on it and it does nothing. Unless you are content to feel like you are always on a Sunday drive this mode is unusable.

In sport mode, it’s exciting for a few minutes, but it quickly becomes exhausting to drive, and it burns so much fuel. I get maybe 18 mpg in sport mode taking it easy in mixed driving in stock trim.

With my current modifications utilizing a few gallons of E85 as a octane boost, I routinely get about 12 mpg. I can empty a whole tank on the track in 25 minutes.

Unless you are content to feel like your always on a race track sport mode is not usable.

Bottom line, don’t buy the new S4. I drove a 335i N54 car that belongs to a friend and 340i rented from Turo for a few days. I like the fact BMWs have numerous drive mode controls and that you can change the engine MAP without changing the transmission and vice versa.

I also test drove an M340: I agree with some of the ppl here that it’s chassis is not as nimble as the S4. It does feel big and heavy to me.

IMO, if you have an F30 particularly one with CarPlay keep it.

If you have a e90 335 it might be getting costly to maintain at this point, but if it’s not costing you an arm and a leg, I’d keep that too.

If you have to buy a car now. I’d say don’t get the S4. The M340 is a-little too heavy IMO but it’s better than the S4 as a daily.

If your looking at a 330, I’d say the A4 is a real contender with its DCT. The DCT in Audi’s is perfection. If they had put it in the S4, I bet I wouldn’t be complaining about my car so much. That said, if you’re look at the A4 you better watch that price tag. It’s best options may but you in the same price range as a base S4.

In summary, the B9 S4 is undrivable. The A4 is pretty awesome, but will probably cost you more than a 330 with the options that I’d recommend. The M340 and 330 are both too heavy, but it’s better than buying a car that’s undrivable and possibly better than paying an arm and a leg to Audi to option out the A4 (it’s not out of the question for a properly optioned A4 to cost over 55k).

I hope this gives some people a bit of perspective on the Offerings from Audi.
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      06-08-2019, 10:15 PM   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B9S4Sedan View Post
Seems like a lot of people are comparing the M340 to the B9 S4. I assume that this is because they are in the same price range and have similar specs.

Unfortunately, it’s not a great comparison. First of all, the Audi Sport Diff blows every other sport diff away because it has too... the car would be a nightmare to drive without it.

That said, I wouldn’t advise anyone to buy the B9 S4. I bought mine for stupid reasons. It has a nice interior and looks really aggressive lowered with a honey comb grill. https://tagmotorsports.com/gallery/a...-2-wheels.html

So it looks great like the one in the link, and it seems ok driving wise during a test drive, but it’s a different animal once it’s warmed up.

For starters, you don’t realize this during a test drive but all of the settings for drive mode only change chassis parameters. The car really only has two drive modes which are drive and sport. If that weren’t bad enough, the drive mode controls both the engine map and transmission sift points.

Dynamic only makes the suspension stiffer, sport diff more aggressive, exhaust louder, and changes steering feedback.

The drive mode is ok until the car is good and warm: Once the car is warm and you scooting around town it turns into a dangerously laggy POS in drive mode. You step on it and it does nothing. Unless you are content to feel like you are always on a Sunday drive this mode is unusable.

In sport mode, it’s exciting for a few minutes, but it quickly becomes exhausting to drive, and it burns so much fuel. I get maybe 18 mpg in sport mode taking it easy in mixed driving in stock trim.

With my current modifications utilizing a few gallons of E85 as a octane boost, I routinely get about 12 mpg. I can empty a whole tank on the track in 25 minutes.

Unless you are content to feel like your always on a race track sport mode is not usable.

Bottom line, don’t buy the new S4. I drove a 335i N54 car that belongs to a friend and 340i rented from Turo for a few days. I like the fact BMWs have numerous drive mode controls and that you can change the engine MAP without changing the transmission and vice versa.

I also test drove an M340: I agree with some of the ppl here that it’s chassis is not as nimble as the S4. It does feel big and heavy to me.

IMO, if you have an F30 particularly one with CarPlay keep it.

If you have a e90 335 it might be getting costly to maintain at this point, but if it’s not costing you an arm and a leg, I’d keep that too.

If you have to buy a car now. I’d say don’t get the S4. The M340 is a-little too heavy IMO but it’s better than the S4 as a daily.

If your looking at a 330, I’d say the A4 is a real contender with its DCT. The DCT in Audi’s is perfection. If they had put it in the S4, I bet I wouldn’t be complaining about my car so much. That said, if you’re look at the A4 you better watch that price tag. It’s best options may but you in the same price range as a base S4.

In summary, the B9 S4 is undrivable. The A4 is pretty awesome, but will probably cost you more than a 330 with the options that I’d recommend. The M340 and 330 are both too heavy, but it’s better than buying a car that’s undrivable and possibly better than paying an arm and a leg to Audi to option out the A4 (it’s not out of the question for a properly optioned A4 to cost over 55k).

I hope this gives some people a bit of perspective on the Offerings from Audi.
Damn, Audi really ruined the S4 after the B8/8.5 generation. The B8/B8.5 was one hell of a car, the supercharged engine had a lot of character, the 6mt/dsg were excellent transmissions, and it didn't have any of the throttle lag I see people posting about on the Audi forums.

I do agree w/ u on the 3 series' weight, honestly, all of BMW's latest cars could go on a diet, I swear they kept making a big deal about the G20 losing 120lbs, but apparently, from what I've been reading, many of the models actually weigh more than the F30? So I'm confused about that. The 3 series does not need to get any longer, wider, or heavier.
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      06-08-2019, 10:49 PM   #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by B9S4Sedan View Post
Seems like a lot of people are comparing the M340 to the B9 S4. I assume that this is because they are in the same price range and have similar specs.

Unfortunately, it’s not a great comparison. First of all, the Audi Sport Diff blows every other sport diff away because it has too... the car would be a nightmare to drive without it.

That said, I wouldn’t advise anyone to buy the B9 S4. I bought mine for stupid reasons. It has a nice interior and looks really aggressive lowered with a honey comb grill. https://tagmotorsports.com/gallery/a...-2-wheels.html

So it looks great like the one in the link, and it seems ok driving wise during a test drive, but it’s a different animal once it’s warmed up.

For starters, you don’t realize this during a test drive but all of the settings for drive mode only change chassis parameters. The car really only has two drive modes which are drive and sport. If that weren’t bad enough, the drive mode controls both the engine map and transmission sift points.

Dynamic only makes the suspension stiffer, sport diff more aggressive, exhaust louder, and changes steering feedback.

The drive mode is ok until the car is good and warm: Once the car is warm and you scooting around town it turns into a dangerously laggy POS in drive mode. You step on it and it does nothing. Unless you are content to feel like you are always on a Sunday drive this mode is unusable.

In sport mode, it’s exciting for a few minutes, but it quickly becomes exhausting to drive, and it burns so much fuel. I get maybe 18 mpg in sport mode taking it easy in mixed driving in stock trim.

With my current modifications utilizing a few gallons of E85 as a octane boost, I routinely get about 12 mpg. I can empty a whole tank on the track in 25 minutes.

Unless you are content to feel like your always on a race track sport mode is not usable.

Bottom line, don’t buy the new S4. I drove a 335i N54 car that belongs to a friend and 340i rented from Turo for a few days. I like the fact BMWs have numerous drive mode controls and that you can change the engine MAP without changing the transmission and vice versa.

I also test drove an M340: I agree with some of the ppl here that it’s chassis is not as nimble as the S4. It does feel big and heavy to me.

IMO, if you have an F30 particularly one with CarPlay keep it.

If you have a e90 335 it might be getting costly to maintain at this point, but if it’s not costing you an arm and a leg, I’d keep that too.

If you have to buy a car now. I’d say don’t get the S4. The M340 is a-little too heavy IMO but it’s better than the S4 as a daily.

If your looking at a 330, I’d say the A4 is a real contender with its DCT. The DCT in Audi’s is perfection. If they had put it in the S4, I bet I wouldn’t be complaining about my car so much. That said, if you’re look at the A4 you better watch that price tag. It’s best options may but you in the same price range as a base S4.

In summary, the B9 S4 is undrivable. The A4 is pretty awesome, but will probably cost you more than a 330 with the options that I’d recommend. The M340 and 330 are both too heavy, but it’s better than buying a car that’s undrivable and possibly better than paying an arm and a leg to Audi to option out the A4 (it’s not out of the question for a properly optioned A4 to cost over 55k).

I hope this gives some people a bit of perspective on the Offerings from Audi.
Damn, Audi really ruined the S4 after the B8/8.5 generation. The B8/B8.5 was one hell of a car, the supercharged engine had a lot of character, the 6mt/dsg were excellent transmissions, and it didn't have any of the throttle lag I see people posting about on the Audi forums.

I do agree w/ u on the 3 series' weight, honestly, all of BMW's latest cars could go on a diet, I swear they kept making a big deal about the G20 losing 120lbs, but apparently, from what I've been reading, many of the models actually weigh more than the F30? So I'm confused about that. The 3 series does not need to get any longer, wider, or heavier.
So, firstly, I don't think the M340i is any heavier than the Audi S4 in reality. As for the 120lbs weight reduction that BMW is claiming, that is real but relates to the structure of the car. But the new car has so much more tech on it than the F30 that if you buy a fully optioned version it will end up being heavier. The technology is nice, but it can negate those weight savings on the structure of the car.
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      06-08-2019, 11:05 PM   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
Damn, Audi really ruined the S4 after the B8/8.5 generation. The B8/B8.5 was one hell of a car, the supercharged engine had a lot of character, the 6mt/dsg were excellent transmissions, and it didn't have any of the throttle lag I see people posting about on the Audi forums.

I do agree w/ u on the 3 series' weight, honestly, all of BMW's latest cars could go on a diet, I swear they kept making a big deal about the G20 losing 120lbs, but apparently, from what I've been reading, many of the models actually weigh more than the F30? So I'm confused about that. The 3 series does not need to get any longer, wider, or heavier.
Yeah, the lag is crazy. It’s all the transmission programming. I’ve seen it shift as high as 6th gear at 35 mph in Drive mode. It’s great for fuel economy, but terrible for throttle response. So Audi’s claim of more power and better mpg comes with a huge caveat. You can choose either fuel economy or more power not both, and there is no in between. The car is either Jekyll or Hyde.

The B8.5s interior wasn’t my favorite, but IMO, the supercharged V6 was their best engine since the 5 banger 20 valve. Unfortunately, they decided to do away with it for whatever reason (maybe because the ECU was designed to cheat on emissions... there is a current lawsuit about that engine similar to but separate from Dieselgate).

That said, their 4 cylinder isn’t bad, but there’s a lot of competition in the realm of turboed 4 pots.

This new V6 with ZF 8 could have been great if they had only allowed you to change transmission shift patterns independent of the MAP.

The “drive” map makes plenty of power; the transmission is just too eager to upshift. Their drive mode should have only been included with this car as like an Eco mode IMO. The sport mode should have been like a sport plus type mode. It should have had at least two other modes in the middle.

As far as the G20 weight is concerned, the chassis may actually be lighter, but cars these days have so many additional systems for safety and emissions, I bet that it just added up, and they underestimated the end result.

I’m just hoping the new M3 is the new GOAT. I’m tired of feeling like we’ve taken back steps from the E46. Otherwise, I’m just gonna wait until an M5 comp depreciates a bit.

FWIW if I absolutely had to buy a brand new 4 door today, I’d probably get an M340. If I were a smaller guy and could tolerate a smaller car, I’d get the RS3 (Haladex blows, but that engine and DCT are amazing).

Last edited by B9S4Sedan; 06-08-2019 at 11:26 PM..
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      06-08-2019, 11:15 PM   #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcjohnsonsg View Post
So, firstly, I don't think the M340i is any heavier than the Audi S4 in reality. As for the 120lbs weight reduction that BMW is claiming, that is real but relates to the structure of the car. But the new car has so much more tech on it than the F30 that if you buy a fully optioned version it will end up being heavier. The technology is nice, but it can negate those weight savings on the structure of the car.
It actually is 100 pounds heavier than a similarly equipped Audi S4 meaning Xdrive. What’s more important is that it feels heavy. I had a 65 mustang that was over a thousand pounds lighter than my Audi but it felt heavier.

Either way, I strongly agree with you. The chassis may actually be lighter, but all the cars are getting so much tech that it’s probably adding up.

FWIW if I were forced to buy a new sedan today I’d get the M340. If I were a smaller guy I’d get the RS3.

I’m really hoping the G series M3 is a stunner and the new GOAT. If it’s even just a little better than the F80, I’ll probably take the depreciation hit and part with my S4.

Last edited by B9S4Sedan; 06-08-2019 at 11:26 PM..
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      06-09-2019, 07:44 AM   #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssquared View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuller View Post
As for getting bored with it over time, the majority of cars can get boring to own after a while. It's why being into cars can be a curse.
That’s probably why BMW took away the 6mt on the G20. Automatics are boring so people lease them knowing they’ll quickly tire of the car. Lets BMW constantly churn people into new vehicles.
So speaking for the immense minority of people that you claim like manuals.
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      06-09-2019, 07:47 AM   #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by B9S4Sedan View Post
Seems like a lot of people are comparing the M340 to the B9 S4. I assume that this is because they are in the same price range and have similar specs.

Unfortunately, it’s not a great comparison. First of all, the Audi Sport Diff blows every other sport diff away because it has too... the car would be a nightmare to drive without it.

That said, I wouldn’t advise anyone to buy the B9 S4. I bought mine for stupid reasons. It has a nice interior and looks really aggressive lowered with a honey comb grill. https://tagmotorsports.com/gallery/a...-2-wheels.html

So it looks great like the one in the link, and it seems ok driving wise during a test drive, but it’s a different animal once it’s warmed up.

For starters, you don’t realize this during a test drive but all of the settings for drive mode only change chassis parameters. The car really only has two drive modes which are drive and sport. If that weren’t bad enough, the drive mode controls both the engine map and transmission sift points.

Dynamic only makes the suspension stiffer, sport diff more aggressive, exhaust louder, and changes steering feedback.

The drive mode is ok until the car is good and warm: Once the car is warm and you scooting around town it turns into a dangerously laggy POS in drive mode. You step on it and it does nothing. Unless you are content to feel like you are always on a Sunday drive this mode is unusable.

In sport mode, it’s exciting for a few minutes, but it quickly becomes exhausting to drive, and it burns so much fuel. I get maybe 18 mpg in sport mode taking it easy in mixed driving in stock trim.

With my current modifications utilizing a few gallons of E85 as a octane boost, I routinely get about 12 mpg. I can empty a whole tank on the track in 25 minutes.

Unless you are content to feel like your always on a race track sport mode is not usable.

Bottom line, don’t buy the new S4. I drove a 335i N54 car that belongs to a friend and 340i rented from Turo for a few days. I like the fact BMWs have numerous drive mode controls and that you can change the engine MAP without changing the transmission and vice versa.

I also test drove an M340: I agree with some of the ppl here that it’s chassis is not as nimble as the S4. It does feel big and heavy to me.

IMO, if you have an F30 particularly one with CarPlay keep it.

If you have a e90 335 it might be getting costly to maintain at this point, but if it’s not costing you an arm and a leg, I’d keep that too.

If you have to buy a car now. I’d say don’t get the S4. The M340 is a-little too heavy IMO but it’s better than the S4 as a daily.

If your looking at a 330, I’d say the A4 is a real contender with its DCT. The DCT in Audi’s is perfection. If they had put it in the S4, I bet I wouldn’t be complaining about my car so much. That said, if you’re look at the A4 you better watch that price tag. It’s best options may but you in the same price range as a base S4.

In summary, the B9 S4 is undrivable. The A4 is pretty awesome, but will probably cost you more than a 330 with the options that I’d recommend. The M340 and 330 are both too heavy, but it’s better than buying a car that’s undrivable and possibly better than paying an arm and a leg to Audi to option out the A4 (it’s not out of the question for a properly optioned A4 to cost over 55k).

I hope this gives some people a bit of perspective on the Offerings from Audi.
Damn, Audi really ruined the S4 after the B8/8.5 generation. The B8/B8.5 was one hell of a car, the supercharged engine had a lot of character, the 6mt/dsg were excellent transmissions, and it didn't have any of the throttle lag I see people posting about on the Audi forums.

I do agree w/ u on the 3 series' weight, honestly, all of BMW's latest cars could go on a diet, I swear they kept making a big deal about the G20 losing 120lbs, but apparently, from what I've been reading, many of the models actually weigh more than the F30? So I'm confused about that. The 3 series does not need to get any longer, wider, or heavier.
Ahhhh but you want airbags, crumple zones, 5+ Star crash ratings, gizmos, infotainment and latest tech. Something, somewhere it's got to give my friend!
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Before: 2011 BMW 328i E90 sedan, Platinum Bronze Metallic, Dakota Brown leather, 17 inch wheels, 6-speed auto, N52 6 Cyl inline N/A goodness....
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      06-10-2019, 12:49 PM   #239
B9S4Sedan
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So speaking for the immense minority of people that you claim like manuals.
The B9 S4 is not available in manual in any country. The only way to get one is to buy an A4 tranny and other necessary bits, beef up the tranny, and swap it in... no one has done it yet but people are talking about it.

Last edited by B9S4Sedan; 06-10-2019 at 08:55 PM..
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      02-16-2021, 03:29 PM   #240
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I think that’s a great article by C&D. Having owned a G20 for a little over a year I found it bland and uninspiring. I think something “new” attracted me to it. The novelty quickly wore off. It’s a critical article but fairly accurate in my view. There is an air of numbness about the G20. It’s overhyped by different magazines online. Would I buy another one? Not until that steering is rectified. Not until all the software bugs are fixed. Definitely not if the LCi gets fitted with larger grills.

I think the G20 is an ambitious attempt to correct everything and it doesn’t particularly get anything too right either. I had zero regrets parting with it and actually felt happier when I did.

What is it? Did Toyota or Lexus join the design team or something?!
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      02-16-2021, 03:30 PM   #241
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Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
So many sugar coated reviews were hinting at how the G20 is improved from the disastrous F30 but still not as good as the E90. C&D told it as it is...being better than the F30 is NOT good enough.

It's sad but BMW is now engineering their cars to appease those who just want the image associated with a BMW and not the nuances of what made the brand famous (steering feel, stiff suspension, etc.).

My parents had a new X5 loaner the past couple days while their E70 M Sport was getting serviced. They HATED the new X5 because it was lifeless to drive. The E70 is so tactile and fun in comparison.

BMW has become too large for its own good. When I'm due for my next car the only BMW I'll be looking at is the M2 CS!
This!
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      02-16-2021, 03:34 PM   #242
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I think there will be a number of camps here. Two of them I can think of straight away or three. Those who think it’s better than the F30 and will never look back. Those who think the F30 was and still is better. Those who think it all fell apart after the E46 and how the E46 was better than the F30/G20.
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