10-13-2018, 01:10 PM | #221 |
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If the G20 handles as well as the new Ford Focus in ST-Line spec with Ford's SLA rear axle, which I recently test drove, then theyll be onto a winner. It was very good indeed.
BMW could learn a lot from Ford chassis engineers - and yes, I'm serious!!
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10-13-2018, 04:38 PM | #222 | |
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I think you can push say a 330i a lot harder because it has less power, which makes it more fun, so I'm not sure exactly what the point of an M car is at this point. I had a roomate who had an e46 m3 and that had the right balance of you could push it and actually use it on the streets while being decent enough to drive. I guess at this point I'd be pretty happy with like 330i level of HP with just M steering feel and suspension. That should be an option package like "M steering feel package" Last edited by hans007; 10-13-2018 at 08:22 PM.. |
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10-14-2018, 05:06 AM | #223 |
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"'ooh the E46 CSL was the last real 3 Series'
I do not want to hear that shit anymore." Make better cars then. |
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10-14-2018, 11:47 AM | #224 |
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If they make cars that quelled the noises from that particular corner of the English-speaking world, they would go out of business. A handful of people want an E46-style experience. The other 99% want an Audi, Merc, Lexus-like car that has a BMW badge.
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10-14-2018, 12:26 PM | #225 | |
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I took the M2 Competition to a Michelin 1/2 mile wet skidpad event specifically to evaluate the EPS, feel approaching/at/over the limits of the front contact patches. My expectations were low given BMW's prior efforts with EPS (and one reason we've not purchased any new BMWs since the E9x generation), but I was truly surprised by how good it is under critical evaluation. The build up for steering wheel torque in proportion to tire force sideloads is excellent and well transmitted. Similarly, the reduction in steering wheel torque as the tire reaches and is near/at/over the limit is well transmitted. There may be a bit of numbness in the zone past the limit where additional lock is pointless, but that is about as critical as I could be about it. I did a write up of the M2C, it's EPS feedback, etc, from the event here, if interested. It's past the test, so we're going to keep the M2C; however, there are a couple of things I'm far more critical of about the car...at EPS isn't one of them.
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10-14-2018, 01:23 PM | #226 | |
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Exactly what I was thinking. You don't like negative reactions ? Then don't produce dog shit when the competition is releasing gems. |
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10-14-2018, 02:25 PM | #227 | |
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10-14-2018, 06:31 PM | #228 | |
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And, when they made 4 versions of the 3 series (gt, wagon, normal one and the 4 grand coupe) why couldn't one of those have been a more focused one before going right up to the m3. The 4 grand coupe was supposed to be that, but it really wasn't any different. I think a mildly stiffer spring rate, but after numerous conversations at dealerships, no one really knew the difference for sure. They are also happy to make 7 different suvs. So why can't there be room in the line up for "an ultimate driving machine"? |
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10-15-2018, 03:24 AM | #229 | |
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BMW probably missed an opportunity, not doing the same with the F3x models. They opted to provide M-performance parts, including the suspension (which not many seem to have fitted), but all dealer fitted. That was the big mistake (and let-down) from a customer's point of view. Performance package should have been factory fitted, to keep the cost at a sensible level. Simple answer is the current M-performance models, IMO. Last edited by HighlandPete; 10-15-2018 at 03:31 AM.. |
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10-15-2018, 06:50 AM | #230 | |
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There is a huge customer goodwill still attached to that option code. ZHP. What did BMWNA product planning do? They co-opted the ZHP moniker attaching it to a "limited run" of the 4-series coupe, something like 100 cars, which just had some Mperformance stuff on them and maybe a tune, something like that. It was 100% the opposite direction from how the original ZHP earned its name which was from an option code that resulted in modified exterior, interior, suspension, exhaust, transmission, differential, engine, all as a reasonably priced option. That 4-series thing appeared as if a high up exec put out the word to the organization to come up with a "ZHP" of some sort, and then either didn't understand the market (at all) or simply had zero incentive to truly respond to potential customer demand. More likely this happened in the middle of the F30 program where the focus at BMW was "broadening the market appeal" of the 3-series, so something like a 335i ZHP, or 340i ZHP, didn't fit their newly minted internal map of the future of BMW where the direction appeared to be headed 100% opposite of their long past. When your goal is to respond to a new customer base who loves 1970s Detroit type power steering (as Car and Driver showed in their analysis of the F30 on a Kinematics and Compliance machine), none of those product planners would be rewarded for trying to upset the apple cart. That market potential still exists, and as long as BMWNA does not exploit that marketplace goodwill with an inappropriate product, it could still be exploited. However, now that manual transmissions are not allowed in the USA 3-series any longer, the original formula which arrived with the 6spd manual in the E46 330i, doesn't quite fit. Nonetheless, if done right (and *only* if done right), it could still have a money making presence in the G20 as a unique, reasonably priced, attractive option code (but definitely not a limited run special). If I was running product planning at BMWNA, I would look at applying it to the 330i since the M340i probably covers the higher end just under the G80. There may not be an exploitable space, price and profit-wise, between the 330i and M340i that wouldn't cannibalize the M340i sales, but I would investigate that potential. In fact, it's possible that a manual only 330i ZHP could sell enough to justify itself, compliance costs and all, if done right....the only manual transmission G20 available. Let the badge chasers buy the M340i while the hard core enthusiasts of old would salivate over this manual G20 330i ZHP. In any event, more power, trick adjustable suspension with adjustable front camber (a "real" enthusiast suspension system, not a marketing suspension), LSD diff, Alcantara interior, subtle exterior visual cues, Mperformance parts bin for some stuff like exhaust to help the P&L, etc...all at a price point that the market simply can't ignore. BMW you're not looking to make this thing a profit center. You're looking to reestablish your presence in the low end of the market with the former enthusiast following that you've left for dead here in the USA. Oh well, doesn't matter a bit to me any longer...probably doesn't to them so why should it to me.
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10-15-2018, 10:12 AM | #232 | |
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I think one thing that's clear is that the small, vocal and often quite childish minority here who want to take their BMWs to the track are better off with an actual track car, or perhaps building their own, as their definition of "driving" is somewhat different to everybody else's. They can have hydraulic steering racks then! |
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10-15-2018, 12:49 PM | #233 |
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And then you sit there screaming give me a wagon.
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10-15-2018, 12:52 PM | #234 | |
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10-15-2018, 03:23 PM | #235 | |
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10-15-2018, 07:45 PM | #236 |
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10-16-2018, 01:16 AM | #237 | |
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10-16-2018, 01:46 AM | #238 | |
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It's a fundamental physical law that states a certain population of bmw enthusiasts will absolutely abhor the new 3 series chassis design when its introduced. They can't help it. They're as bound to that hate as lightning is to thunder. |
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10-16-2018, 11:16 AM | #239 |
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You sound like a BMW dream customer who will pay more just so they can have a car other's can't afford. I value my money a bit more and won't throw away money just because its a BMW. If they aren't producing a quality product or something that differentiates itself from the competition, why should I pay $1000 a month? Let alone for a 3 series. My M3 isn't that much.
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10-16-2018, 08:27 PM | #240 |
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I really like the looks, from the pics at least of the new 3. Interior is way better and the exterior looks alot more interesting to me than the F30. Really hoping they made some steering feel improvement, because we know it is possible, given that Porsche has done it. Even if it isn't like my E90, even half as good will be good enough for me. Also think the 330i will be about the right level of sportiness so one doesn't kill themselves, literally or with speeding tickets!
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10-23-2018, 02:16 AM | #241 |
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Sorry Klaus, this is not going to turn out good for you mate.
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10-23-2018, 08:33 AM | #242 |
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If you all organise a boycott and buy Alfas, you can run that fucker outta town altogether, show 'em who's boss!
I'm sure that'll have him crying all the way to the bank, as another million people in China buy more BMWs and a handful of grumpy old men on the internet cancel their order for an M3.... |
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