[cruzer666]

Originally Posted by daddyrockstar23

Long time BMW owner here.

320
328
X3
i3

Current owner of X3 and Y

Agree with the Tesla shortcomings in production quality and now most regrettably UX interface. This has hurt my joy ratio for sure.

Until now, the look (subjective), handling (subjective), acceleration (facts), interior space (facts) are what won me over.

Exterior of i4 doesn't appeal.

Hoping a forthcoming small SUV from BMW will win me back!

When you close the rear doors on your Y, does the rear hatch rattle too ?

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

Tesla was actually a threat and even though BMW had strong sales there was some losses to Tesla of "new" 3 or 4 series sales.

The threat was recognized 5+ yrs ago(in 2017) when BMWAG called an all-hands-on-deck to the "electric assault", and the previous CEO was fired in 2019 for being too slow to address electrification.

It will take another 3-4 years for BMW to productize its BEV-only platform, and Tesla may significantly improve its customer service, manufacturing, and/or quality control by then.

My take is still that there is enough room to support multiple good designs and products in this space, and whoever lives on past glories(e.g. BMW, Tesla, etc, etc) will become extinct.

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/20...are-employees/

[matbl]

Having owned a Tesla Model S, drive a Model 3 and driven an i4 I agree with the top post.
Over here (Sweden), a base i4 is actual some $6-7k cheaper than a M3 LR and only slightly more expensive than a M3 SR.
For the same price I would take the i4 over the M3 any day.

Then the next couple of years we will see electric 5-series as well as small SUV's from BMW (iX1 just announced right) so catching up quickly.

The only thing BMW needs to fix now are two things.
1.
Charging network equal to Teslas.
Current BMW charging with ionity access (in europe) goes a long way but what's up with the monthly charge even if you don't use it?
(After 1 year free).
2.
Price.
For what's essentially a 3-series, base i4 is $26k more than a base 3-series.

[jhongordon]

BMW is always my fav from the very long, this one is very nice practical review,

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by matbl

Having owned a Tesla Model S, drive a Model 3 and driven an i4 I agree with the top post.
Over here (Sweden), a base i4 is actual some $6-7k cheaper than a M3 LR and only slightly more expensive than a M3 SR.
For the same price I would take the i4 over the M3 any day.

Then the next couple of years we will see electric 5-series as well as small SUV's from BMW (iX1 just announced right) so catching up quickly.

The only thing BMW needs to fix now are two things.
1.
Charging network equal to Teslas.
Current BMW charging with ionity access (in europe) goes a long way but what's up with the monthly charge even if you don't use it?
(After 1 year free).
2.
Price.
For what's essentially a 3-series, base i4 is $26k more than a base 3-series.

Where do you get $26k more?
First, it's looks like you are comparing a base i4 to a base 3 series. That's not a valid comparison.

You would want to compare to a 4 grand coupe and there is a gap between the 430 and the 440.

The base is is $55k -$7500 tax credit so $47k
The base 4 series GC is $45k but there are additional things that are standard on the I like the Sensatec dash, etc.

So I call it a wash. But comparing an M50 base to a 4 GC or 3 sreis base is not accurate.

[paulbazoV2]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

Where do you get $26k more?
First, it's looks like you are comparing a base i4 to a base 3 series. That's not a valid comparison.

You would want to compare to a 4 grand coupe and there is a gap between the 430 and the 440.

The base is is $55k -$7500 tax credit so $47k
The base 4 series GC is $45k but there are additional things that are standard on the I like the Sensatec dash, etc.

So I call it a wash. But comparing an M50 base to a 4 GC or 3 sreis base is not accurate.

My 2020 M340 had msrp $64,800, the I4 M50 I have on order with similar options has an Msrp of $72,500, minus the $7500 tax credit will net $200 more than M340

Of course market conditions were different in 2020 , I got 10% off of msrp plus incentives on the M340, and today I have to pay MSRP. ( on 3 series or I4)

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by paulbazoV2

My 2020 M340 had msrp $64,800, the I4 M50 I have on order with similar options has an Msrp of $72,500, minus the $7500 tax credit will net $200 more than M340

Of course market conditions were different in 2020 , I got 10% off of msrp plus incentives on the M340, and today I have to pay MSRP. ( on 3 series or I4)

Ones just trying to figure out what the comparison was.
I configured a M50 and 440iX GC and loaded each one and got a $10k difference.

Take out the $7500 tax credit and it falls to $2500. Factor in that there are some benefits to the M50 since you literally have no maintenance. Also the M50 has substantially more power and performance.

I chose the M50 over an M3.

[chadkoepf]

current model 3 owner. I have a "note" in my phones notes app because every time I tell someone that it's trash they don't believe me. The cult of tesla is real and makes people see past many very basic shortcomings. I can't wait till the M50 is delivered so I can unload my model 3.

most importantly, it'll be really nice when I need something for the car, I can call a dealership and talk to a person instead of an AI text messaging system that doesn't understand anything outside of the provided multiple choice options

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by chadkoepf

current model 3 owner. I have a "note" in my phones notes app because every time I tell someone that it's trash they don't believe me. The cult of tesla is real and makes people see past many very basic shortcomings. I can't wait till the M50 is delivered so I can unload my model 3.

most importantly, it'll be really nice when I need something for the car, I can call a dealership and talk to a person instead of an AI text messaging system that doesn't understand anything outside of the provided multiple choice options

100% my experience. Couldn't wait to sell it - traded it for what I paid for it so free 16k miles and 15 months. The first 9 months were fun - I'll give it that

[cruzer666]

Originally Posted by M3macster

100% my experience. Couldn't wait to sell it - traded it for what I paid for it so free 16k miles and 15 months. The first 9 months were fun - I'll give it that

I'm in the same boat in terms of mileage and timing, the used car market will soften up a bit by the end of the year and more after.

I agree with you, I can sell my used car for about how much I got it for new with 18,000 miles on it today. But in 12 months when the supply chain shortages are going to hopefully be resolved, and if the interest rates keep going up, used car values are going to drop, hopefully (to my own detriment) back to normal.

[Rapcat]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

I wouldn't put too much stock in that. There are a lot of Tesla haters out there who would pick Putin over Tesla as being better off for the world. How many of them are actually buying the car? Or even have any EV ownership experience?

I have a Tesla MYP. I used to have an i3 back in the day. Still have a X3 M40i that just sits in the garage.
Tesla sucks. They really miss out on a lot of things that most normal cars have. Fun to drive. Easy to charge. Simple, but also simple means lacking in this case.

[NomoTesla]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

I ran into some of them here.

They poo-poo all over BMW tech while extolling the virtues of Tesla that were not superior to BMW.

Now Tesla has raised the price of the Model 3 again.

Model 3 RWD with blue paint, white interior, 19" wheels and FSD is now $ 62,490

Model 3 LR is now $71,490
Model 3 Performance is $76,990

Why are you including FSD in the price of the Tesla? There is no comparable BMW feature so FSD should not be included. A Model 3 Performance is actually around $64,000 w/ white interior and blue paint.

[BimmerBahn]

Originally Posted by NomoTesla

Why are you including FSD in the price of the Tesla? There is no comparable BMW feature so FSD should not be included. A Model 3 Performance is actually around $64,000 w/ white interior and blue paint.

DAP+ is feature comparable to the current GA version of Tesla FSD. The one currently in “beta” that has been deployed to the 98+%’s doesn’t count…. They’re both SAE Level 2.

Cheers!

[BimmerBahn]

Originally Posted by cruzer666

My 2 cents for your 2 cents, the camera-based blind-spot monitoring on the 3/Y is a very unsafe feature, and is missing any common sense. After trying it several times it is incredible unsafe to make a lane change to the left or turning left and having to look down right at the screen to see what's on your blind spot. You are way safer by using those small $2 blind spot mirrors.

Agree 100% - Tesla really handicapped their system by going vision-only…. Even my 2019 P3D seems have more issues now (phantom braking being the most unnerving) with the newer code….guessing it’s because they’re biasing the input toward vision. Those Blindspot camera feeds off the side cameras are gimmicky and not safe… so let me look down toward my screen vs in the direction of where I want the car to go to see if anything is in the way…. Makes perfect sense!

I only paid $6000 for FSD in 2019…. Zero chance I’d drop $12K today on it…. I’d rather take the $12K and put it on TSLA…. Potentially a better risk buy vs FSD, which is a decade away from reality…..maybe.

Cheers!

[sor]

Originally Posted by BimmerBahn

DAP+ is feature comparable to the current GA version of Tesla FSD. The one currently in “beta” that has been deployed to the 98+%’s doesn’t count…. They’re both SAE Level 2.

Cheers!

Ignorance on my part, I've never been in a Tesla that doesn't have FSD, but I believe I was told that Tesla has some level of driving assist even without paying for FSD. I had figured this was the base level 2 stuff but I guess to get that you have to pony up for FSD?

[cruzer666]

Originally Posted by BimmerBahn

DAP+ is feature comparable to the current GA version of Tesla FSD. The one currently in "beta" that has been deployed to the 98+%'s doesn't count…. They're both SAE Level 2.

Cheers!

Comparable but not really, FSD doesn't give you hands off driving (at any speed).

Also, the display, maybe it's a taste thing, but really?
A picture is worth a thousand words.

[stevehifi]

As a long time m car owner (4 models) that got a new model 3p recently, I applaud bmw's take one their first mild performance ev, but I think a lot of the replies I read comparing price and features seem to be missing the point.

When you buy an EV, you're buying the support of the charging network as well. And in that comparison nothing beats Tesla right now with their superchargers.

[cruzer666]

Originally Posted by stevehifi

As a long time m car owner (4 models) that got a new model 3p recently, I applaud bmw's take one their first mild performance ev, but I think a lot of the replies I read comparing price and features seem to be missing the point.

When you buy an EV, you're buying the support of the charging network as well. And in that comparison nothing beats Tesla right now with their superchargers.

As of March 2022, in US, there are 1315 Tesla Supercharger locations vs as of February 2022, 7018 Public DC fast charging locations, with the number growing exponentially in the next few years.

[sor]

Originally Posted by cruzer666

As of March 2022, in US, there are 1315 Tesla Supercharger locations vs as of February 2022, 7018 Public DC fast charging stations, with the number growing exponentially in the next few years.

Yeah I hate to beat a dead horse on that one but there are actually more CCS options on road trips for me than there are Tesla stops. And that's only considering EA 350kw stops! The superchargers have more plugs per stop but there are currently also 10x more Teslas on the road so it evens out. I've also used the CCS stations along the freeway enough to feel comfortable with their reliability, and as mentioned the Tesla superchargers aren't always perfect.

It will keep coming up though, because it's the common knowledge and who has time to read all of the posts on every thread!

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by paulbazoV2

My 2020 M340 had msrp $64,800, the I4 M50 I have on order with similar options has an Msrp of $72,500, minus the $7500 tax credit will net $200 more than M340

Of course market conditions were different in 2020 , I got 10% off of msrp plus incentives on the M340, and today I have to pay MSRP. ( on 3 series or I4)

I got 15% off MSRP or almost $7k off on a 2021 base 330i a year ago for $37k + tax + fess, it was really a no brainer given even econo brands charged $3k markups.

I also sold a 2013 F30 328i for $16k around same time, but it does approach $20k now, while there is $0 incentive on 2022 base 330i, so the 2 sides balance out somewhat.

[BimmerBahn]

Originally Posted by cruzer666

Comparable but not really, FSD doesn't give you hands off driving (at any speed).

Also, the display, maybe it's a taste thing, but really?
A picture is worth a thousand words.

Sure, that’s a good point…even at low speed, FSD nags you to torque the wheel…. BMW doesn’t with traffic jam assist - I do like that in my X5

While I’ve gotten used to the single screen in my P3D, I really prefer the traditional instrument cluster and HUD….. cant wait to have it again

[chadkoepf]

I always tell doubters that can't believe I don't like it, "it's fun to drive in a straight line, but that's about it"

coming from 2 BMWs and an Audi, getting in the tesla feels like I'm driving a futuristic version of a toyota camry.

I'm glad people here are also dogging the "autopilot" which swerves more than I do after a few drinks and totally freaks out at really awkward times. It also has no idea what a traffic circle is. really groundbreaking stuff 🙄