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      02-09-2019, 06:25 PM   #111
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Price is outrageous IMO. 56k for a 330i? I'm sure almost every box is ticked but an entry level 3 series for what an almost loaded 335i used to cost is a head scratcher on why someone would want to pay this for a 4 cylinder vehicle.

M sport package for 5k and the only performance upgrade is steering?
In all fairness the B46/48 is a really good engine..
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      02-09-2019, 06:25 PM   #112
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Could never justify that price for a 4 cylinder 3 series.
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      02-09-2019, 06:27 PM   #113
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Price is outrageous IMO. 56k for a 330i? I'm sure almost every box is ticked but an entry level 3 series for what an almost loaded 335i used to cost is a head scratcher on why someone would want to pay this for a 4 cylinder vehicle.

M sport package for 5k and the only performance upgrade is steering?
In all fairness the B46/48 is a really good engine..
I suppose but to me it's the principle. I'm sure they will sell some priced under 50k but loading this up on options doesn't seem worth it
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      02-09-2019, 06:29 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by BMV///M3 View Post
Price is outrageous IMO. 56k for a 330i? I'm sure almost every box is ticked but an entry level 3 series for what an almost loaded 335i used to cost is a head scratcher on why someone would want to pay this for a 4 cylinder vehicle.

M sport package for 5k and the only performance upgrade is steering?
In all fairness the B46/48 is a really good engine..
I suppose but to me it's the principle. I'm sure they will sell some priced under 50k but loading this up on options doesn't seem worth it
I hear. You can load up a G30 530i to very close to $75K and you still have the 4 pot turbo.

The trick with these cars is to keep the options in check.
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      02-09-2019, 06:42 PM   #115
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Indeed if you include CS variants. Currently, a well loaded M4 goes for about $85K USD. It is quite possible that after the G82 generation, future base M4 prices that are similarly optioned will encroach 100K.
The upcoming G80/82/83 will be priced higher, thus why a pure model might be offered for the G80 6MT strippers that are price sensitive.
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      02-09-2019, 07:05 PM   #116
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X2 M35i and 330i xDrive MSport? Are these cars or fax machines?
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      02-09-2019, 10:39 PM   #117
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Didn't know Lexus was making a new car

Nice.
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      02-10-2019, 01:56 AM   #118
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The upcoming G80/82/83 will be priced higher, thus why a pure model might be offered for the G80 6MT strippers that are price sensitive.
The pure won’t be about price for people that want one, it’s about a more raw traditional M car experience, rather than a techno-fest gadget laden 4wd machine.
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      02-10-2019, 02:57 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
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lol 56k 330i
I'll take a G30 5er for that instead. Thank you
blows my mind why anyone would buy these cars new... 1 year later; they are 10k off
Because used cars suck. They are typically beat up demo vehicles, been in an accident, have botched up paint work that doesn't show until you've been driving it for a few months, mechanical or electrical gremlins, etc. I'd rather pay $10k more and not worry about any of the problems associated with used cars. Especially used dealership trade-ins or "Certified" Pre-owned vehicles. Buying a good, honest used car from a private owner is a different story, but it takes an insane amount of effort and time to hunt down a good one. Been there, done that with new, dealer used, and private used cars. I will only buy new cars from now on unless I'm buying a classic car where I don't have the option to buy new.
Sounds like a bunch of made up excuses to me. A well researched and vetted CPO or used BMW could be a great solid purchase. On the other hand if you don't do your due diligence you can end up with someone else's problem.

Sorry to hear that you may have been badly burn in the past but you didn't perform due diligence on those used car purchases. Used is not immediately suspected of abuse or damage but at the same time you have the vehicle you are looking at.

And do you truly honestly believe that buying will shield you 100% from a vehicle that has not had repainted panels or shipping damage?
What I'm saying is for me, the effort required to find a used car that would meet my expectations is not worth saving that $10k or whatever it is. It also depends on why I'm buying the car. My Volvo was (very well) used because I didn't buy it for any other reason than to continue driving the hell out of it on a daily basis on these shitty Midwest roads. It seeps oil right now because it likely needs the PCV system serviced (it now has 137k miles), there were some initial gremlins I had to sort, etc. But I paid under $10k for it and knew what I was getting myself into. My BMW, on the other hand, is more of a trophy car and one I wouldn't dare drive around with any mechanical or cosmetic issues. So yeah, buying a used car does suck because there is no free lunch, and if you expect perfection from your BMW like I do, buying new is the only way to go. I thought it was a little short-sighted to think of buying a new car as "mind boggling" and simply felt like responding and sharing an alternative perspective I suppose to stick up for those of us that work hard enough to buy whatever the hell we want for whatever reason we want it.
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      02-10-2019, 10:04 AM   #120
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Thanks for sharing! I was able to get the Driver's Guide with this VIN.
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      02-10-2019, 11:43 AM   #121
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Wow that's crazy. My 2006 325 e90 with sport and premium packages had msrp of 34k brand new. I hope these prices keep f80 used price up.
I know right... In 1927 you could get a 4-door Ford Model T for $545. And that had a 2.9L I4 with all of its mighty 20 horses, not some pesky 2L turbo-unit, smh.

And we all know inflation is just a conspiracy and the quality and features of cars also can't change in 13 (or nearly a 100) years, so there's that too.

Can we retitle the thread to "How much has your car cost over a decade ago"?
Many things have changed since 1927 but not that many since 2006. The price of the car has almost doubled, has your salary? There is definitely inflation there but it seems to affect car prices the most. When it comes to 3 series specifically, I don't see engineering break through. Turbo? They had turbo cars before. It got larger, yes, but is it 40% larger? No. What else? Oh yes the new I drive, fine, but that's a computer and how much a computer costs? The fancy one about 2k, make it 2.5k. So nothing that been added to the car increases the value that much. Now before you start listing some new sensors that are installed into the new car, remember that a lot of part are same/similar from older models and thus should be costing less for the factory. Add the fact that since 2006 more parts hit cheaper as the are produced in China/other low cost regions.

Another aspect of price increase is demand as in supply and demand basics used in economics, right? And I don't see demand increased that much over 2006.

However they are reducing free maintenance from 4 years to 3 and it is no longer transferable from original owner.

Seriously if you look at e90 and new 3 series side by side, there not that much features/tech added.
But maybe you are right, it is the 30-40% inflation we went through here in US in the last decade.
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      02-10-2019, 12:41 PM   #122
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Many things have changed since 1927 but not that many since 2006. The price of the car has almost doubled, has your salary? There is definitely inflation there but it seems to affect car prices the most. When it comes to 3 series specifically, I don't see engineering break through. Turbo? They had turbo cars before. It got larger, yes, but is it 40% larger? No. What else? Oh yes the new I drive, fine, but that's a computer and how much a computer costs? The fancy one about 2k, make it 2.5k. So nothing that been added to the car increases the value that much. Now before you start listing some new sensors that are installed into the new car, remember that a lot of part are same/similar from older models and thus should be costing less for the factory. Add the fact that since 2006 more parts hit cheaper as the are produced in China/other low cost regions.

Another aspect of price increase is demand as in supply and demand basics used in economics, right? And I don't see demand increased that much over 2006.

However they are reducing free maintenance from 4 years to 3 and it is no longer transferable from original owner.

Seriously if you look at e90 and new 3 series side by side, there not that much features/tech added.
But maybe you are right, it is the 30-40% inflation we went through here in US in the last decade.
Let's put it out there that I'm not trying to say BMW isn't making money on the car.

1927 to 2006 is definitely a longer period than 2006 to 2019, but technology nowadays is also moving forward at a much faster pace than in a comparable 13 year period "back then".

I wouldn't necessarily call any newer features "breakthroughs" either, as it's hard to radically redefine things relative to when they were invented.

I would call these features advancements though: new CLAR platform, stiffer chassis, reworked suspension, limited slip differential available from the factory, laser&led adaptive headlights, generally higher build quality, etc.

If we look back closer, the F30's base price wasn't far off from the G20's. The main difference is made up from the options, but like I've mentioned there are quite a few newly available ones to bump the final price higher.

I'm sure the E90 could be made for a very similar price like back then (obviously adjusted for inflation, etc), but current day cars aren't just different in terms of performance, luxury, and general features you see, but also below the skin that I'm hoping most people won't ever need to take advantage of during a crash. There's also the ever increasing emissions regulations requiring further research and development and additional parts being built in.

It's also true that model line-ups share a lot of parts and technology features, but the research and development that go into these also isn't just so they can get even at best by only using it in a very limited number of cars, but spreading the costs out through their models, and of course making money.

Plus obviously new things always carry a premium in their early stages of availability. I'm also not seeing how competitors prices are any lower comparably.
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      02-10-2019, 04:13 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KTN View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgere View Post
Many things have changed since 1927 but not that many since 2006. The price of the car has almost doubled, has your salary? There is definitely inflation there but it seems to affect car prices the most. When it comes to 3 series specifically, I don't see engineering break through. Turbo? They had turbo cars before. It got larger, yes, but is it 40% larger? No. What else? Oh yes the new I drive, fine, but that's a computer and how much a computer costs? The fancy one about 2k, make it 2.5k. So nothing that been added to the car increases the value that much. Now before you start listing some new sensors that are installed into the new car, remember that a lot of part are same/similar from older models and thus should be costing less for the factory. Add the fact that since 2006 more parts hit cheaper as the are produced in China/other low cost regions.

Another aspect of price increase is demand as in supply and demand basics used in economics, right? And I don't see demand increased that much over 2006.

However they are reducing free maintenance from 4 years to 3 and it is no longer transferable from original owner.

Seriously if you look at e90 and new 3 series side by side, there not that much features/tech added.
But maybe you are right, it is the 30-40% inflation we went through here in US in the last decade.
Let's put it out there that I'm not trying to say BMW isn't making money on the car.

1927 to 2006 is definitely a longer period than 2006 to 2019, but technology nowadays is also moving forward at a much faster pace than in a comparable 13 year period "back then".

I wouldn't necessarily call any newer features "breakthroughs" either, as it's hard to radically redefine things relative to when they were invented.

I would call these features advancements though: new CLAR platform, stiffer chassis, reworked suspension, limited slip differential available from the factory, laser&led adaptive headlights, generally higher build quality, etc.

If we look back closer, the F30's base price wasn't far off from the G20's. The main difference is made up from the options, but like I've mentioned there are quite a few newly available ones to bump the final price higher.

I'm sure the E90 could be made for a very similar price like back then (obviously adjusted for inflation, etc), but current day cars aren't just different in terms of performance, luxury, and general features you see, but also below the skin that I'm hoping most people won't ever need to take advantage of during a crash. There's also the ever increasing emissions regulations requiring further research and development and additional parts being built in.

It's also true that model line-ups share a lot of parts and technology features, but the research and development that go into these also isn't just so they can get even at best by only using it in a very limited number of cars, but spreading the costs out through their models, and of course making money.

Plus obviously new things always carry a premium in their early stages of availability. I'm also not seeing how competitors prices are any lower comparably.
So you see 34-56k jump in price for pretty much the same car with just 2 models away justifiable? Ok. I don't but that's my opinion. Btw New CLAR/stiffness adds no value to consumer in a citizen type of car. All manufacturers raise their prices and most cannot be justified.
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      02-10-2019, 04:38 PM   #124
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So you see 34-56k jump in price for pretty much the same car with just 2 models away justifiable? Ok. I don't but that's my opinion. Btw New CLAR/stiffness adds no value to consumer in a citizen type of car. All manufacturers raise their prices and most cannot be justified.
Please don't forget that 34k is still 2006 34k.



And 56k is far from the base price with options included that weren't even available to order on E90s. (but I believe base model also offers far more)
Calling them pretty much the same car is a bit farfetched, but I guess then we can say that's my opinion.

What adds value to a customer is based on each individual customer. But R&D costs are there, whether you personally appreciate it or not, then it's up for you to decide if you're looking for what it provides and pay the price. I'd say someone looking for better handling will appreciate a stiffer chassis. And I think most anyone will appreciate the more compliant ride possible with the CLAR platform and/or the upgraded suspension.

Last edited by KTN; 02-10-2019 at 04:43 PM..
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      02-10-2019, 05:02 PM   #125
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It's crazy that just 6 years ago, you could get a decently loaded e92 335is for 56k....
Wait until until a decently loaded M3/M4 hits 100K. The tears will flow.
I can definitely see this on the G series. And when it does, that's nuts. 100k = certified P Car money.
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      02-10-2019, 05:54 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by kozzi View Post
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Originally Posted by ReRe View Post
It's crazy that just 6 years ago, you could get a decently loaded e92 335is for 56k....
Wait until until a decently loaded M3/M4 hits 100K. The tears will flow.
I can definitely see this on the G series. And when it does, that's nuts. 100k = certified P Car money.
Which of course will bring the price up for the certified p-cars
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      02-10-2019, 06:01 PM   #127
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Have you driven one yet?
I'm happy to drive it. I fully expect it to be a huge improvement on the F30 driving dynamics wise but the F30 is by far the worst 3 series ever made so that is a low bar. It's still going to be a far cry from BMW's of old however, just like the 5 series and every other modern BMW I have driven.

Modest improvements but miles behind what they once were.
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      02-10-2019, 06:08 PM   #128
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So you see 34-56k jump in price for pretty much the same car with just 2 models away justifiable? Ok. I don't but that's my opinion. Btw New CLAR/stiffness adds no value to consumer in a citizen type of car. All manufacturers raise their prices and most cannot be justified.
Please don't forget that 34k is still 2006 34k.



And 56k is far from the base price with options included that weren't even available to order on E90s. (but I believe base model also offers far more)
Calling them pretty much the same car is a bit farfetched, but I guess then we can say that's my opinion.

What adds value to a customer is based on each individual customer. But R&D costs are there, whether you personally appreciate it or not, then it's up for you to decide if you're looking for what it provides and pay the price. I'd say someone looking for better handling will appreciate a stiffer chassis. And I think most anyone will appreciate the more compliant ride possible with the CLAR platform and/or the upgraded suspension.
Man I like to disagree. You are not looking at all variables against the price hike. You are more than welcome to pay 56k for a base 3er. With prices so high, high interest rates, and minimal wage growth, I don't see these to sell well.
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      02-10-2019, 06:37 PM   #129
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Man I like to disagree. You are not looking at all variables against the price hike. You are more than welcome to pay 56k for a base 3er. With prices so high, high interest rates, and minimal wage growth, I don't see these to sell well.
You're welcome and free to disagree.

But taking into account inflation is not a matter of opinion, especially when we're talking about a period longer than a decade.
And a base 3er is not 56k in the US.
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      02-10-2019, 07:06 PM   #130
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Man I like to disagree. You are not looking at all variables against the price hike. You are more than welcome to pay 56k for a base 3er. With prices so high, high interest rates, and minimal wage growth, I don't see these to sell well.
Prices are increasing in all segments. Let's look at the Mazda3 sedan:

2014: Lowest trim MSRP $16,945

2019: Lowest trim MSRP $21,895 (redesign)

That's a 29.2% increase in price!

If you want a cheaper 3-er in the US, it's not the 3-series anymore, there's always the 2-series.
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      02-10-2019, 09:07 PM   #131
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lol 56k 330i
Agreed, I turned in my 2015 328xi in October and am jumping to another brand for the first time since 1994. Maybe I'll be back but for the next 3 years I'm going to give the G70 a shot. It seems to have a good mix of the things that made the 3 series great in the past and I'm getting a loaded twin turbo 6 awd for $48k. If I get a turbo 6 and similar options on the 3 I'm looking at $62-65k. I really want a 6 cylinder again but just have a hard time with paying that much. I also like the way the G70 looks, not a fan of the new 3 in std or msport.
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      02-10-2019, 09:25 PM   #132
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Man I like to disagree. You are not looking at all variables against the price hike. You are more than welcome to pay 56k for a base 3er. With prices so high, high interest rates, and minimal wage growth, I don't see these to sell well.
Prices are increasing in all segments. Let's look at the Mazda3 sedan:

2014: Lowest trim MSRP $16,945

2019: Lowest trim MSRP $21,895 (redesign)

That's a 29.2% increase in price!

If you want a cheaper 3-er in the US, it's not the 3-series anymore, there's always the 2-series.
Mazda 3 is like milk, or close to it. People will buy it as necessity, 56k 3 series is a premium car.
And we don't want 2 series. I want 3er or I go elsewhere and this is what most pple will do. I expect BMW to loose sales or be offering big discounts. Let's check back in 6-8 months?
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