[Dinh335]

stop w the lexus comments, it's uninformed...any real car enthusiast would know it looks more like a TLX than a lexus

[Cortexiphan]

Originally Posted by DML

Here I'll make you feel better, BMW manufacturers an absolute perfect automobile, each & every model is the staple of what a finely German car should aspire to be. How does the best keep getting better? Truly amazing

No. It's just that E30 is severely overrated.
Referring to E30 might be a good way to win an argument about how old was better, just because most people didn't drive it and just fed by the imaginary greatness of it. It sounds like "Make BMW great again", referring to a time no one knows about.

[Big boi m5]

Originally Posted by 440xiGCMSport2

people who pine for the e60 and the bangle butt are nuts. still ugly as shit in my opinion of course. especially on the 7series.

7 series was ugly but this new shit is just as bad. E60 looks good.

The new new garbage grills and lines are just gross. iNext?

I mean wow. The new 3 series is as big as the e60 too. Think about that.

The ONLY good thing about them is they hide the massive size

[440xiGCMSport2]

Originally Posted by SleepingBMW

7 series was ugly but this new shit is just as bad. E60 looks good.

The new new garbage grills and lines are just gross. iNext?

I mean wow. The new 3 series is as big as the e60 too. Think about that.

The ONLY good thing about them is they hide the massive size

did you think the e60 look good when it came out? if you did you were one of the few.

[Cortexiphan]

Originally Posted by KTN

Just like these comments.

Wow, it's liberating seeing 10 years into the future.

Exactly. The dude has a better design sense than BMW designers. (!)

[Big boi m5]

Originally Posted by 440xiGCMSport2

did you think the e60 look good when it came out? if you did you were one of the few.

I did but I was 15 lmao. I didn't really care what it looked like. It was smooth and crisp while the old cars were boxy and square. But Most 15 year olds are always going to pick NEW vs OLD so I don't give my 15 y.o self much weight. When the Adrian Van Hooeydonk stuff started coming out 2012 I thought the e60 was ugly and old.

I also thought C6 was vastly superior to C5. Still do.

But most people aren't paying attention. To them a C6 and e60 can both pass as new ultra expensive cars despite both being 10 years old and cheap. (I know from experience, it's annoying to be considered wealthy when your really not) I consider this to be a hallmark of good design.

If you ask them what they think of your 2006 Cadillac and it will come off as 15 years old. Style was too novel and aged poorly as it strayed too far in an attempt to be shocking and new.

[JRobUSC]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

Do you work for BMW???

Are you on the design team of the latest monstrosities to come out of Munich?

I'll simplify for you

BMWs used to be a step above in many categories that car enthusiasts cared about.

Now they make mommy mobile SUVs, grandpa sedans, and Lexus's that look like shit.

So does every other brand, including sport brands like Porsche, Lamborghini, and Ferrari. It's a business. Adapt, or die.

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

If they didn't have ///M I and many others would be gone. Even that's barely holding on with ///M sport garbage

Where are you gonna go?

Base, M Sport, M Performance, M
Base, AMG Line, AMG "Lite", AMG
Base, S-Line, S, RS

Look familiar? It's everyone. Hell, even Lexus has base, F Sport, and F models now. Lexus, for crying out loud. Car manufacturers adapted. If you can't accept it, then please, by all means, follow through on your threat to leave for another brand that does exactly the same things BMW does, go clog up their forums with non-stop whining that the cars from yesteryear you have nostalgia-tainted, rose colored memories of are so much better than the ones today.

[Big boi m5]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

No. It's just that E30 is severely overrated.
Referring to E30 might be a good way to win an argument about how old was better, just because most people didn't drive it and just fed by the imaginary greatness of it. It sounds like "Make BMW great again", referring to a time no one knows about.

I have driven an e30 M3 and it really is that good. If you could get one with modern styling and proportionate modern power people wouldn't be complaining.

E30 was designed to be cool and drive like a race car. The F80 is a luxury appliance with M marketing. Doesn't even have a race engine in it, which is the whole point of the M badge when it launched. F80 is designed to sell to people who wouldn't normally buy a Sports car without offending The BMW faithful to the point of leaving.

[otay]

Fixed. No more nightmares...

[Big boi m5]

Originally Posted by JRobUSC

So does every other brand, including sport brands like Porsche, Lamborghini, and Ferrari. It's a business. Adapt, or die.

Where are you gonna go?

Base, M Sport, M Performance, M
Base, AMG Line, AMG "Lite", AMG
Base, S-Line, S, RS

Look familiar? It's everyone. Hell, even Lexus has base, F Sport, and F models now. Lexus, for crying out loud. Car manufacturers adapted. If you can't accept it, then please, by all means, follow through on your threat to leave for another brand that does exactly the same things BMW does, go clog up their forums with non-stop whining that the cars from yesteryear you have nostalgia-tainted, rose colored memories of are so much better than the ones today.

Essentially there's two guys defending BMW to the death.

Idk who shills for a corporation blindly. Bottom line is F series mostly suck, BMW wants to sell as many cars as possible and that means Lexus style has made its way into BMWs philosophy on design and dynamics's.

Mass market customers want to know why their $130k M5 is bumpy and the engine is loud so BMW gave them smooth spacious quiet cruisers.

This isn't even a debate. Idk why these two guys are upset nobody will pretend this didn't true and praise BMW for making cars they aren't.

[530iDriver]

Originally Posted by SleepingBMW

7 series was ugly but this new shit is just as bad. E60 looks good.

The new new garbage grills and lines are just gross. iNext?

I mean wow. The new 3 series is as big as the e60 too. Think about that.

The ONLY good thing about them is they hide the massive size

And yet the E65 7 series was the best selling generation in the history of the model. Not the E38 before could top it on the charts and neither the F01 and G11/12 that followed it.

[530iDriver]

Originally Posted by SleepingBMW

I have driven an e30 M3 and it really is that good. If you could get one with modern styling and proportionate modern power people wouldn't be complaining.

E30 was designed to be cool and drive like a race car. The F80 is a luxury appliance with M marketing. Doesn't even have a race engine in it, which is the whole point of the M badge when it launched. F80 is designed to sell to people who wouldn't normally buy a Sports car without offending The BMW faithful to the point of leaving.

And how many airbags, crumple zones, torsional rigidity, electronic amenities, nanny safety systems do you find on the E30?

Not only customer expectations but government legislation are giving us the cars we have today.

No one, except Internet forum keyboard warriors perhaps, would buy one. People today want comfortable safe cruisers, not crude feeling go karts that let them know about every imperfection on the road...

[440xiGCMSport2]

Originally Posted by 530iDriver

And how many airbags, crumple zones, torsional rigidity, electronic amenities, nanny safety systems do you find on the E30?

Not only customer expectations but government legislation are giving us the cars we have today.

No one, except Internet forum keyboard warriors perhaps, would buy one. People today want comfortable safe cruisers, not crude feeling go karts that let them know about every imperfection on the road...

well Porsche isn't having any problems selling their cars, especially the bumpy go cart gt3.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by SleepingBMW

Essentially there's two guys defending BMW to the death.

Idk who shills for a corporation blindly. Bottom line is F series mostly suck, BMW wants to sell as many cars as possible and that means Lexus style has made its way into BMWs philosophy on design and dynamics's.

Mass market customers want to know why their $130k M5 is bumpy and the engine is loud so BMW gave them smooth spacious quiet cruisers.

This isn't even a debate. Idk why these two guys are upset nobody will pretend this didn't true and praise BMW for making cars they aren't.

This ^

As I said earlier. BMW, which is following the other German brands, is catering to mommies and grandpas.

Sure it sells cars. Shitty ones.

[530iDriver]

Originally Posted by 440xiGCMSport2

well Porsche isn't having any problems selling their cars, especially the bumpy go cart gt3.

How many GT3s do they sell annually?

[530iDriver]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

This ^

As I said earlier. BMW, which is following the other German brands, is catering to mommies and grandpas.

Sure it sells cars. Shitty ones.

One day you will also be a daddy or mami driving a shitty car. At least make it a BMW, please.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by 530iDriver

One day you will also be a daddy or mami driving a shitty car. At least make it a BMW, please.

I already am. I have a 3 month old that we are taking on European Delivery for another ///M4 this May.

Zero need to drive shitty cars because of kids. Just saying.

[530iDriver]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

I already am. I have a 3 month old that we are taking on European Delivery for another ///M4 this May.

Zero need to drive shitty cars because of kids. Just saying.

Agreed man!

My boys grew up while riding in the back of R53 MINI Cooper S hatchbacks.

No SUVs or Minivans for me.

[440xiGCMSport2]

Originally Posted by 530iDriver

is
How many GT3s do they sell annually?

The question is how many do they make.They would sell a heck lot more if they decided to make more.
Also M division should not make normal driving cars. They should be making low volume go kart cars to be a halo for BMW. Msport should be the mass produced sporty car and regular BMWs should be the comfy sporty car.
currently BMW has it wrong by mass producing M cars as it dilutes the specialness of an M car. I don't know about you but where I am M cars are almost as common as regular BMWs.
E30 BMW should be the essence of BMW. I was lucky enough to drive a friend's e30 and it was definitely an experience. It was literally like driving a go kart. Yes it was bumpy but so worth it. literally on rails.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by 530iDriver

Agreed man!

My boys grew up while riding in the back of R53 MINI Cooper S hatchbacks.

No SUVs or Minivans for me.

Nice! My wife is trying hard core for an SUV right now to replace her 340. I'm fighting the good fight. I don't get Americans infatuation with SUVs (trucks). They drive like shit and there really isn't much more room in them (headrooms about it) when comparing a wagon or sedan. The 3rd row SUVs have more room but an X1, X3, Q3, etc etc..... have zero extra space in comparison to a sedan in its class. People think there more safe blah blah. It's stupid. If anything they're less safe as the braking and steering are worse.

[530iDriver]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

Nice! My wife is trying hard core for an SUV right now to replace her 340. I'm fighting the good fight. I don't get Americans infatuation with SUVs (trucks). They drive like shit and there really isn't much more room in them (headrooms about it) when comparing a wagon or sedan. The 3rd row SUVs have more room but an X1, X3, Q3, etc etc..... have zero extra space in comparison to a sedan in its class. People think there more safe blah blah. It's stupid. If anything they're less safe as the braking and steering are worse.

I mean if worse come to worse, test drive a X3 M40i.

[440xiGCMSport2]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

Nice! My wife is trying hard core for an SUV right now to replace her 340. I'm fighting the good fight. I don't get Americans infatuation with SUVs (trucks). They drive like shit and there really isn't much more room in them (headrooms about it) when comparing a wagon or sedan. The 3rd row SUVs have more room but an X1, X3, Q3, etc etc..... have zero extra space in comparison to a sedan in its class. People think there more safe blah blah. It's stupid. If anything they're less safe as the braking and steering are worse.

Totally agree. If you are going to get an SuV than it has to be something large like a three row Honda Pilot. It holds a tonne of stuff and can sit 7-8 people. I mainly use it for skiing and summer biking trips. I can carry all the stuff inside the Suv. Otherwise I buy a car or wagon. Vans are great but no good AWD vans really.