[22Black]

Hi,

I posted in the past about an issue with the fresh air flap system on the 330i. From what I have read, this is not specific to me vehicle but rather an issue affecting all BMW's. When outside ambient temperatures are high and the A/C is on (Even though fresh air mode is selected, the vehicle remains in recirculation mode).

I now confirmed this with data from an air quality monitor I purchased on Amazon to test the theory.

I am attaching screenshots.

1. Start test at 11:50am with car windows open - co2 level (421ppm)
2. Close windows and turn on A/C with recirculation enabled - co2 level climbs to (2211ppm) by 12:01pm as expected
3. Enable fresh air mode at 12:01pm on the drive system
4. 12:23pm with fresh air mode enabled the co2 level has climbed to (4000+ppm)

I performed the same test on another one of my vehicles a Nissan rogue and the co2 level dropped back to 500-600ppm with fresh air mode enabled (as expected).

It seems these BMW's are never getting fresh air when outside ambient temperatures are relatively high (80F) and the A/C is on. Seems concerning especially to those who take long road trips.

Car goes in for an inspection on Tuesday with a BMW engineer will keep you all updated!

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by 22Black

Hi,

I posted in the past about an issue with the fresh air flap system on the 330i. From what I have read, this is not specific to me vehicle but rather an issue affecting all BMW's. When outside ambient temperatures are high and the A/C is on (Even though fresh air mode is selected, the vehicle remains in recirculation mode).

I now confirmed this with data from an air quality monitor I purchased on Amazon to test the theory.

I am attaching screenshots.

1. Start test at 11:50am with car windows open - co2 level (421ppm)
2. Close windows and turn on A/C with recirculation enabled - co2 level climbs to (2211ppm) by 12:01pm as expected
3. Enable fresh air mode at 12:01pm on the drive system
4. 12:23pm with fresh air mode enabled the co2 level has climbed to (4000+ppm)

I performed the same test on another one of my vehicles a Nissan rogue and the co2 level dropped back to 500-600ppm with fresh air mode enabled (as expected).

It seems these BMW's are never getting fresh air when outside ambient temperatures are relatively high (80F) and the A/C is on. Seems concerning especially to those who take long road trips.

Car goes in for an inspection on Tuesday with a BMW engineer will keep you all updated!

Excellent work, nothing like an experiment to prove there is an issue.

Out of interest, have you tried it with a higher cabin temperature setting, say 72F, to see if it is an A/C overload protection kicking in, when set to a lower cabin temperature like your 65F setting?

[GOTOFMS]

My CO2 level with the fresh air setting is not too bad.

[22Black]

Originally Posted by GOTOFMS

My CO2 level with the fresh air setting is not too bad.

Thats certainly interesting! How long were you running it before the reading of approx 1400ppm?

[22Black]

Originally Posted by Yalferd

curiosity, were you moving while testing?

Yes, all tests performed while vehicle moving.

As the ambient temperature drops into the 60's here I am willing to bet if I go retest the fresh air flap will open as expected and the co2 level will be much more stable. Will report back soon

[G30M]

interesting. i have been using recirculate for the last 40 years in any car and still alive. in my opinion breathing my own fart is cleaner than breathing city air or wood fire air! unfortunately rural air gives me hayfever.

[22Black]

Originally Posted by Yalferd

I'd love to get a device like yours that shows the percentage of each element in the air. What if I have my wife and kid and my dog that pants non stop when riding in the car. Am I going to get an elevated CO2 level? Also, more important, we need to understand how close I am to a "toxic" level.

The co2 level is expected to elevate, that is normal. I would say its not normal when the level is not dropping when fresh air flap is enabled via idrive.

As to toxic levels, I can't speak to that. The only thing I briefly read is that the 'magic number' is supposedly 1100ppm and once it hits that threshold you should take some action to introduce fresh air.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by Yalferd

I'd love to get a device like yours that shows the percentage of each element in the air. What if I have my wife and kid and my dog that pants non stop when riding in the car. Am I going to get an elevated CO2 level? Also, more important, we need to understand how close I am to a "toxic" level.

5000ppm over 8 hours

https://www.fsis.usda.gov/sites/defa...on-Dioxide.pdf

[22Black]

As I suspected, when driving this morning with lower outside ambient temperatures. The co2 level was stabilized the entire 15 min drive which mean the fresh air flap was in fact open for the drive. This flap is directly affected by outside ambient air temperatures

[22Black]

Attaching picture

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by 22Black

As I suspected, when driving this morning with lower outside ambient temperatures. The co2 level was stabilized the entire 15 min drive which mean the fresh air flap was in fact open for the drive. This flap is directly affected by outside ambient air temperatures

I'm wondering if the way it is working, is to improve A/C efficiency, give it better ECO credentials.

The older IHKA A/C systems, even in recirculation mode, will open for 30 seconds for outside air every 30 minutes. Even AUC (Automatic Air-recirculation Control), will cycle through 'open-closed' sequences to ensure enough outside air.

Do your system fresh air flaps open temporarily on a longer trip? Even if closed for cooling efficiency at the higher temperatures. I can't find any technical reference for fresh air sequences, in the material I have available for your system.

[22Black]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I'm wondering if the way it is working, is to improve A/C efficiency, give it better ECO credentials.

The older IHKA A/C systems, even in recirculation mode, will open for 30 seconds for outside air every 30 minutes. Even AUC (Automatic Air-recirculation Control), will cycle through 'open-closed' sequences to ensure enough outside air.

Do your system fresh air flaps open temporarily on a longer trip? Even if closed for cooling efficiency at the higher temperatures. I can't find any technical reference for fresh air sequences, in the material I have available for your system.

Ive watched my system for extended periods of time (fresh air selected, outside temps high) the fresh air flap still remains closed.

At this point im just concerned at the car is never getting fresh air and the dealership totally blew me off yesterday. Id like to escalate it at a corporate level as I have the data to prove my case.

[22Black]

Originally Posted by GOTOFMS

My CO2 level with the fresh air setting is not too bad.

Hey, can you give this another run on a warm day (80's) and let us know your results? Im curious to see what your car does after like 20 min. Thanks!

[22Black]

Following up to my first message. Car was "inspected" by a BMW engineer. They are telling me that the request for fresh air is only a request and the system does not necessarily have to agree.

It makes absolutely no sense to me but I can conclude that the G20 (and I'm sure most other models) never get fresh air in the cabin when outside ambient temperatures are say above roughly 68F-70F. It does not matter how long you drive around, the flap will never open. The only way would be to open a window every so often.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by 22Black

Following up to my first message. Car was "inspected" by a BMW engineer. They are telling me that the request for fresh air is only a request and the system does not necessarily have to agree.

It makes absolutely no sense to me but I can conclude that the G20 (and I'm sure most other models) never get fresh air in the cabin when outside ambient temperatures are say above roughly 68F-70F. It does not matter how long you drive around, the flap will never open. The only way would be to open a window every so often.

That sounds like somebody winging it on the fly. While it may be true, it still yields no insight into whether your specific car has an issue or this is a design issue common to all G20/80/etc cars. Can you get a loaner G20 this summer and run the same test?

[Redditor9000]

“ They are telling me that the request for fresh air is only a request and the system does not necessarily have to agree.”

LOL- kinda like steering by wire- we are making a request to turn left or right.

[22Black]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

That sounds like somebody winging it on the fly. While it may be true, it still yields no insight into whether your specific car has an issue or this is a design issue common to all G20/80/etc cars. Can you get a loaner G20 this summer and run the same test?

I agree. I have tested loaners - I was able to confirm this on a G20 last year and on a 2023 G60. It has to be by design for efficiency purposes but it still makes no sense to me how the cars would get adequate fresh air after say an hour. Ive taken this as far as I can I think. Dealer is getting frustrated and BMW customer service will only "agree" with dealer findings.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by 22Black

I agree. I have tested loaners - I was able to confirm this on a G20 last year and on a 2023 G60. It has to be by design for efficiency purposes but it still makes no sense to me how the cars would get adequate fresh air after say an hour. Ive taken this as far as I can I think. Dealer is getting frustrated and BMW customer service will only "agree" with dealer findings.

Wow, great. Thanks for the data and persistence in pursuing the issue at least!

[22Black]

Its actually pretty upsetting. The car never gets fresh air even after 2 hours. You can start to feel it, it makes you tired after a while. I don't know what to do, everyone should be concerned actually all the vehicles are the same. Except the electric, I drove an iX a few weeks ago and that air flap worked on command.

Anyone know how I can escalate this further?

[22Black]

Im going to try and code it out and disable it on Bimmercode..will report back

[drdino]

Are you saying you have an extended log (say over 2 hours) where the flap is shown to be constantly closed?

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by 22Black

Its actually pretty upsetting. The car never gets fresh air even after 2 hours. You can start to feel it, it makes you tired after a while. I don't know what to do, everyone should be concerned actually all the vehicles are the same. Except the electric, I drove an iX a few weeks ago and that air flap worked on command.

Anyone know how I can escalate this further?

I'm really surprised that design wise there is no automatic over-ride to recirculation, like there used to be. The attached description is from the IHKA system in the E9x models. Gives an idea of the importance of fresh air when recirculation modes are actuated. Whatever efficiency measures BMW are currently using, there must be some fresh air, it is absolutely necessary.

I've not been able to find a similar design strategy for later models. BMW must have this technical data available. I'd be wanting to know what is supposed to be happening, from BMW themselves.

BMW can data log your system's function. Interrogate, to see if it is working to the design parameters. BMW can take that data and have the designers pass opinion. I suppose it depends if BMW's technical guys are really interested in knowing if your system is 'physically' working correctly.