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      07-06-2020, 03:28 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
Well I hope you're right, but BMW has consistently engineered out steering feedback from their vehicles since 2010, they've even admitted it. I don't trust this M3/4 to be any different.
I don't believe this statement to be true for ///M cars (I can't comment about non-M cars). The transition to EPS technology inherently removed feel and feedback, but it is was not purposefully engineered so. BMW actually spent a fair bit of effort to try to minimize the negative effects as much as possible on the F8X:

Quote:
EPS systems can often convey a somewhat synthetic feel, and this is precisely what we did not want. The driver of the BMW M3 or BMW M4 should have a good sense of the nature of the road surface. He wants to be able to feel when he is driving over a drain cover in the road or when the surface material changes. This steering is responsive enough to convey these impressions very clearly Ė when we began its development, I didnít expect it to be able to do this to the extent it does.

Similarly, the driver is able to immediately feel any transitional responses in the steering, the moment he enters the marginal zone when the car begins to skid due to over or understeering. This makes it possible to drive the car very precisely at its limit

Source
I believe that the G8X steering will be better than the F8X due to advances in EPS technology, well for the RWD version at least .
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      07-06-2020, 03:35 PM   #134
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BMW just doesn't do good EPS simple as that. Even their best rack isn't as good as a last generation Mazda 3. I don't expect the steering to be amazing in BMW's anymore (quite the turn around from what I expected from Bimmers before 2010).

Best steering feel right now is Porsche GT cars, Alfa Giulia, most of the GM Alpha Chassis Products (Camaro, ATS-V, etc.) and pre-2020 GT350's (2020's have the GT500's settings which remove on-center feel).
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      07-06-2020, 04:28 PM   #135
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This sounds infinitely better than any current M3/M4 I've ever heard.
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      07-06-2020, 08:19 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
I don't believe this statement to be true for ///M cars (I can't comment about non-M cars). The transition to EPS technology inherently removed feel and feedback, but it is was not purposefully engineered so. BMW actually spent a fair bit of effort to try to minimize the negative effects as much as possible on the F8X:



I believe that the G8X steering will be better than the F8X due to advances in EPS technology, well for the RWD version at least .
I hope so. The M340's steering gets criticized too, and I didn't like it either. Felt like there was a bunch of "maple syrup" in the steering column to add weight rather than a natural resistance on turn in. However the M340 isn't a top down M division model.
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      07-07-2020, 08:59 AM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew10 View Post
It's because I'm a "manual 'til I die" kinda guy why I'm concerned about the feel of the transmission.

So we shouldn't care about their opinions of the transmission? Why do we post reviews of and seem to care about their opinions of the rest of the driving experience?
It's interesting and informative to read reviews, but some people seem to base too much on them. At the end of the day test drive the car instead of writing it off due to luke warm or negative reviews. Car journalists critique every little detail too, it's their job. Often times the consumer has different expectations and priorities.
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      07-07-2020, 10:16 AM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuller View Post
It's interesting and informative to read reviews, but some people seem to base too much on them. At the end of the day test drive the car instead of writing it off due to luke warm or negative reviews. Car journalists critique every little detail too, it's their job. Often times the consumer has different expectations and priorities.
Agree.

I would buy the manual regardless. Over the years, with all the improvements they've made and the "Ultimate Driving Machine" tag, you would think they would be known for the great feel of the transmission by now. So far, with a couple of lukewarm reviews, it doesn't look like they are going out with a bang as far as that's concerned. This is probably the last gen with a manual transmission so maybe its not a priority.
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      07-07-2020, 01:45 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weingarm View Post
3.1 second 0-60 on the G80 M3 Pure (RWD 6MT) is way too optimistic.

For reference BMW published times:

X3M Base 0-60 time is 4.1 with 8sp auto
X3M Comp 0-60 time is 4.0 with 8sp auto
and
2020 M4 coupe 0-60 time is 4.1 with DCT and RWD (has 425hp)

So based on the above, G80 M3 Pure (RWD 6MT) only gains a few tenths on the X3M at most. Maybe 3.8 seconds? No way this is a 3.1 second car.

Remember, I'm talking BMW's published time which is always a couple tenths too conservative, but still not 3.1.
It's worth noting Car & Driver officially clocked the X4MC 0-60 mph in 3.3 sec and 1/4 mile in 11.6 sec @ 119 mph. Given the added weight and SUV aerodynamics I would expect the M3/M4 in most trims to meet or eclipse these times.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/
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      07-07-2020, 09:25 PM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
It's worth noting Car & Driver officially clocked the X4MC 0-60 mph in 3.3 sec and 1/4 mile in 11.6 sec @ 119 mph. Given the added weight and SUV aerodynamics I would expect the M3/M4 in most trims to meet or eclipse these times.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/
I wouldn't be so sure. Aerodynamics have very little play below 60mph, so it is mainly weight that plays against the X4MC. IMO, the base M3 will be slower than this X4MC due to the added shift time, lesser launch traction and lower horsepower. The RWD M3C will be a close match. The AWD M3C will beat the X4MC since it is the exact same powertrain with less weight. But anyhow, who cares about 0-60mph, that is not what an M3 is about...
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      07-07-2020, 09:30 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
But anyhow, who cares about 0-60mph, that is not what an M3 is about...
sadly too many people these days value 0-60 over handling, feedback, etc.
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      07-07-2020, 09:46 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mii View Post
Based on the prototype review, 19" front 275, 20" rear 285.
285 / 295 setup maybe an option on competition model?

The remaining questions:
- Does G8x generation come with CF drive shaft?
- Will G8x manual hit 3.1s 0-60, while 8-speed hit sub 2.9s given the current F90 M5 number already hit 3.1 on official number. M3 historically had faster time as compared to M5.

and last but not least

- Will BMW fix the first bug on the windshield from SHMEE's video @ 5:24?
What's the point of installing a light and rigid CF driveshaft on heavy (intertia wise) and sluggish AWD 8AT drivetrain?

No way will a 6MT G8X achieve 3.1 to 60mph. The lighter 992 C2S 7MT with all the weight on those fat rear wheels isn't even that fast.
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      07-08-2020, 07:28 AM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
I wouldn't be so sure. Aerodynamics have very little play below 60mph, so it is mainly weight that plays against the X4MC. IMO, the base M3 will be slower than this X4MC due to the added shift time, lesser launch traction and lower horsepower. The RWD M3C will be a close match. The AWD M3C will beat the X4MC since it is the exact same powertrain with less weight. But anyhow, who cares about 0-60mph, that is not what an M3 is about...
Okay so what about the 1/4 mile time? Aerodynamics definately come into play and that 119 mph trap speed is very impressive for an SUV. Also I was simply responding to a person that posted BMW's expected acceleration times with measured acceleration numbers for an SUV using the same engine that will be in the M3/4. I think the M3 is about the drive and handling but also being the best of it's 3 series peers and the M340i is already impressively fast so it stands to reasoning that we would expect it to eclipse that car in a straight line. Just because you don't care it doesn't mean we can't discuss it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jstein55 View Post
sadly too many people these days value 0-60 over handling, feedback, etc.
I do not believe that is the case. Car magazines have been clocking 0-60 since the 60's. It's a performance metric that people have cared about forever. It's not the only metric but nonetheless straight line speed has always been valued and let's not be silly and start proclaiming that's all people care about as if it was was the case nobody would care about Porsches and we would all be driving Dodge Hellcats.

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      07-08-2020, 07:32 AM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
What's the point of installing a light and rigid CF driveshaft on heavy (intertia wise) and sluggish AWD 8AT drivetrain?

No way will a 6MT G8X achieve 3.1 to 60mph. The lighter 992 C2S 7MT with all the weight on those fat rear wheels isn't even that fast.
If they got the slightest decency, they should put CFRP driveshaft standard into 6MT variation. But I highly doubt this will happen as they quietly removed them from 2017/10 and onwards but kept for CS variants.

They haven't mentioned whether M2 CS has CFRP driveshaft either, which I assume it means no.
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      07-08-2020, 07:59 AM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
Okay so what about the 1/4 mile time? Aerodynamics definately come into play and that 119 mph trap speed is very impressive for an SUV. Also I was simply responding to a person that posted BMW's expected acceleration times with measured acceleration numbers for an SUV using the same engine that will be in the M3/4. I think the M3 is about the drive and handling but also being the best of it's 3 series peers and the M340i is already impressively fast so it stands to reasoning that we would expect it to eclipse that car in a straight line. Just because you don't care it doesn't mean we can't discuss it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jstein55 View Post
sadly too many people these days value 0-60 over handling, feedback, etc.
I do not believe that is the case. Car magazines have been clocking 0-60 since the 60's. It's a performance metric that people have cared about forever. It's not the only metric but nonetheless straight line speed has always been valued and let's not be silly and start proclaiming that's all people care about as if it was was the case nobody would care about Porsches and we would all be driving Dodge Hellcats.
Read my posts again, you are not stating what I wrote correctly. I never proclaimed all people care about is 0-60 times nor that it wasn't ever a valued statistic. I said "too many people value 0-60 times over engagement, feedback, etc."
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      07-08-2020, 08:45 AM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
Okay so what about the 1/4 mile time? Aerodynamics definately come into play and that 119 mph trap speed is very impressive for an SUV. Also I was simply responding to a person that posted BMW's expected acceleration times with measured acceleration numbers for an SUV using the same engine that will be in the M3/4. I think the M3 is about the drive and handling but also being the best of it's 3 series peers and the M340i is already impressively fast so it stands to reasoning that we would expect it to eclipse that car in a straight line. Just because you don't care it doesn't mean we can't discuss it.



I do not believe that is the case. Car magazines have been clocking 0-60 since the 60's. It's a performance metric that people have cared about forever. It's not the only metric but nonetheless straight line speed has always been valued and let's not be silly and start proclaiming that's all people care about as if it was was the case nobody would care about Porsches and we would all be driving Dodge Hellcats.
Same applies to quarter mile times. AWD vehicles have a huge advantage because it allows them to get up to speed very early in the run and cover the distance in less time. Further, 6MT will lose precious seconds and mph with each upshift. But the G8X will likely have solid trap speeds, because that's where power to weight matters. But then again, 1/4 miles is not what an M3 is about.

I am not saying we shouldn't be discussing it, I am part of the discussion. What I am saying is that launching from a dig has never been the M3's main focus. It's always been about race track performance. Further, straight line speed is not only about launching from a dig, for me it is more about the ability to sustain good acceleration at higher speeds, that's what matters on a track. And I think the RWD G8X will be very strong in that respect.
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      07-08-2020, 09:48 AM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jstein55 View Post
Read my posts again, you are not stating what I wrote correctly. I never proclaimed all people care about is 0-60 times nor that it wasn't ever a valued statistic. I said "too many people value 0-60 times over engagement, feedback, etc."
And I said that's not the case because cars like the Hellcat are outliers. Even Mustangs and Camaros have evolved into very capable track cars because most people value "engagement, feedback, etc" over 0-60 times.
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      07-08-2020, 09:56 AM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
If they got the slightest decency, they should put CFRP driveshaft standard into 6MT variation. But I highly doubt this will happen as they quietly removed them from 2017/10 and onwards but kept for CS variants.

They haven't mentioned whether M2 CS has CFRP driveshaft either, which I assume it means no.
The M2 never had a CFRP driveshaft, it would not be cost effective to develop one only for the low volume M2cs.
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      07-13-2020, 04:27 AM   #149
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I'd rather be run over by the new M3 than watch a shmee video.
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