[J-RO]

Does anyone actually watch all two minutes and twenty eight seconds of the video?

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by FrankieNuo

I believe the s55 revs to 7,500 and the new s58 to 7,700.

S58 has rpm limit of 7200 due to torque converter not being able to handle higher rpm vs. S55's 7600 rpm.

[White340]

Originally Posted by R N M

This thing is quiet as a mouse.
Hopefully the US version is less restrictive.

I thought I was the only one. It sounds a bit boring to me.

[Thunderstorm]

Originally Posted by secretariat

911 is a possibility, but BMW is something very special.
Really? I read through the posts and one of them caught my eye. Someone mentioned that the vehicle had effortless speed going around the ring. Effortless speed sucks I want a car that is engaging, a car that I feel like I'm driving it not being driven. My X5M is effortless, fast as hell but nothing in the feel department. Anyone can drive fast just put your foot down and there you go. If I wanted a Tesla I would buy one. At least in the Porsche you get a feel for the car an emotional attachment in the M's where is my feel, where is my attachment? I had a 1994 325is and that vehicle was a pleasure to drive. Now nothing.

Can we at least wait until the Car is out of Prototye status to judge how fun it is to Drive?

The poster said it looks planted, that's what you want to be fast no?

[secretariat]

The poster I was referring to said "effortless" speed. That is what I commented on. If this new generation has the feel, connectedness that I am referring to I will eat my hat. I don't have to wait til it comes out to know that.

[Thunderstorm]

Until the Press Cars are out and about no one will know. All we can say is it "looks" stable on the Track, not the specification the Car had nor what Systems were tested when the Video was recorded. Way to less to guess how involved the driving will be. Might be awesome, might be bad. We'll habe to wait.

I just don't get the Doom and Gloom about almost every Piece of Info we get. But that's ok, shorter delivery Times for those who want one i guess.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by pbar

Check out the size of that front wheel gap... and that's under heavy braking!

Yea right, looking at the inside wheel while the car is cornering over a crest and not under braking

[jmxtrem]

really bad design of front ........reaaaaaaaaally ,im of bmw since almost two decades and what designs are they doing with some models?........................................... .............

[pbar]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Yea right, looking at the inside wheel while the car is cornering over a crest and not under braking

Yes, you're right. I saw red lights on the tail and an apex, and didn't look closely enough (plus I hated those wheel gaps on F82 ;-)

There is clearly a slight crest and the front wheel is a little turned in, and I guess those must be red LED daytime running lights?

[lve2xlr8]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

S58 has rpm limit of 7200 due to torque converter not being able to handle higher rpm vs. S55's 7600 rpm.

If this is a true, it's a game changer and not in a good way. Will manual transmission models still rev out?

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by lve2xlr8

If this is a true, it's a game changer and not in a good way. Will manual transmission models still rev out?

Most likely not. They will have tuned the S58’s powerband around that lower rev limit.

[KINY3RA]

At 1:36, sounds definitely like the manual shifting

[SabineBimmer]

Originally Posted by secretariat

911 is a possibility, but BMW is something very special.
Really? I read through the posts and one of them caught my eye. Someone mentioned that the vehicle had effortless speed going around the ring. Effortless speed sucks I want a car that is engaging, a car that I feel like I'm driving it not being driven. My X5M is effortless, fast as hell but nothing in the feel department. Anyone can drive fast just put your foot down and there you go. If I wanted a Tesla I would buy one. At least in the Porsche you get a feel for the car an emotional attachment in the M's where is my feel, where is my attachment? I had a 1994 325is and that vehicle was a pleasure to drive. Now nothing.

Well said!

[nublu2u]

My, an M3 with a torque converter, a transmission slower than it’s predecessor, lower revving than the s55, is that what the customers have been asking for?

In the past it was easy to point out what differentiated the brand; high revving engine, CFRP roof, SMG or M DCT, CFRP driveshaft, handling, etc. Looks like M’s engineering excellence is a victim to the company accountants.

[bmrm396]

Originally Posted by nublu2u

My, an M3 with a torque converter, a transmission slower than it's predecessor, lower revving than the s55, is that what the customers have been asking for?

In the past it was easy to point out what differentiated the brand; high revving engine, CFRP roof, SMG or M DCT, CFRP driveshaft, handling, etc. Looks like M's engineering excellence is a victim to the company accountants.

Yup, been sayin that and couldn't agree more. Most likely why many who want a real sports car will leave to go elsewhere ... esp when they see the price tag for this and prolly laugh for a few mins. Me, I'll either find a freshly used CS or move out when I'm done w my F80

[new2the3]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

S58 has rpm limit of 7200 due to torque converter not being able to handle higher rpm vs. S55's 7600 rpm.

If you look at the engine technical data document, it says for the manual version of the S55 that is coming the redline for 6mt would be 7500 and 7200 for automatic.

[Mavus]

Originally Posted by nublu2u

My, an M3 with a torque converter, a transmission slower than it's predecessor, lower revving than the s55, is that what the customers have been asking for?

In the past it was easy to point out what differentiated the brand; high revving engine, CFRP roof, SMG or M DCT, CFRP driveshaft, handling, etc. Looks like M's engineering excellence is a victim to the company accountants.

It's not only accountants. It's the owners and the board ... they transformed the company into money grab business where nothing is sacred any more.

Many M customers have no clue what drivetrain capabilities are and never drive vehicles on track or take spitited drives. There are folks on this forum that claim the X M's are real M cars. WTF!!?? How often do you see them racing? Maybe they are cause M has different meaning now I guess.

If you look at f80 section so many owners and buyers care about driver assistance bs features and leather more than the human-machine interface. Most M enthusiasats have or had e30, e36, e46 and e9x but are now owners of P and even Camaro, and X3s for wives. I talked to several of them at meets and hpde. Many bmw instructors moved to P after e46.

This new M3 will be nothing special with a copy-paste engine/drivetrain from SUVs, horrid design and will be probably larger and heavier than F80. It will be fast though but will it be fun and connected the way even sport package 3 series used to be?

[bmrm396]

Originally Posted by Smooth 330i

It's not only accountants. It's the owners and the board ... they transformed the company into money grab business where nothing is sacred any more.

Many M customers have no clue what drivetrain capabilities are and never drive vehicles on track or take spitited drives. There are folks on this forum that claim the X M's are real M cars. WTF!!?? How often do you see them racing? Maybe they are cause M has different meaning now I guess.

If you look at f80 section so many owners and buyers care about driver assistance bs features and leather more than the human-machine interface. Most M enthusiasats have or had e30, e36, e46 and e9x but are now owners of P and even Camaro, and X3s for wives. I talked to several of them at meets and hpde. Many bmw instructors moved to P after e46.

This new M3 will be nothing special with a copy-paste engine/drivetrain from SUVs, horrid design and will be probably larger and heavier than F80. It will be fast though but will it be fun and connected the way even sport package 3 series used to be?

Even if it is, you've lost that "can't look away" quality that helped define previous M cars. They were good looking. Can people be ok with an ugly car that drives well? Some people, sure. Most people, prolly not.

[JCZ5]

Originally Posted by Smooth 330i

It's not only accountants. It's the owners and the board ... they transformed the company into money grab business where nothing is sacred any more.

Many M customers have no clue what drivetrain capabilities are and never drive vehicles on track or take spitited drives. There are folks on this forum that claim the X M's are real M cars. WTF!!?? How often do you see them racing? Maybe they are cause M has different meaning now I guess.

If you look at f80 section so many owners and buyers care about driver assistance bs features and leather more than the human-machine interface. Most M enthusiasats have or had e30, e36, e46 and e9x but are now owners of P and even Camaro, and X3s for wives. I talked to several of them at meets and hpde. Many bmw instructors moved to P after e46.

This new M3 will be nothing special with a copy-paste engine/drivetrain from SUVs, horrid design and will be probably larger and heavier than F80. It will be fast though but will it be fun and connected the way even sport package 3 series used to be?

Nothing wrong with the direction M is going as long as BMW is making money and able to continue its operation. One reason why the M2 received so many accolades was because it went back to basics (somewhat). In fact, the M2C is the M CEO's choice of his personal company car.

Sure the M3/4 have gone in a new direction than what it was years before. But I for one appreciate the new tech, amenities and everything covered in leather. Especially if someone is buying this as a DD.

If I wanted more emphasis on driving dynamics, I would go old stock or even a preowned Porsche.

The truth is BMW can't get away with maintaining their business by focusing purely on the driving experience without modern tech. Enthusiasts do not have enough capacity and buying power to sustain the brand.

[Mavus]

Originally Posted by bmrm396

Even if it is, you've lost that "can't look away" quality that helped define previous M cars. They were good looking. Can people be ok with an ugly car that drives well? Some people, sure. Most people, prolly not.

Yep exactly. I can't justify paying a premium for an ugly car that drives well.

Heck I don't want to buy ZL1 cause the car is ugly and interior is ... well typical Chevy design.

On the other hand I need to test drive 718 4.0 ...

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by bmrm396

Even if it is, you've lost that "can't look away" quality that helped define previous M cars. They were good looking. Can people be ok with an ugly car that drives well? Some people, sure. Most people, prolly not.

Ughhh, most M cars are rather subdued, so I'm not sure what you're referring to. With or without the badging, the car does not stand out much to the average person........especially in a rather common color.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by bmrm396

Yup, been sayin that and couldn't agree more. Most likely why many who want a real sports car will leave to go elsewhere ... esp when they see the price tag for this and prolly laugh for a few mins. Me, I'll either find a freshly used CS or move out when I'm done w my F80

If somebody wanted a "real sports car," they wouldn't have ever looked at a BMW M car to begin with. The M's have always been about street/sport compromise. If you can afford a real sports car, sell your F8X and go buy one. I would be curious to know which real sports cars offer the comfort and utility of an M car. Please enlighten me, because the sportier a car becomes, the less livable it becomes as well. It's bad enough that weak-sauce M drivers [on the forums] have been complaining that an M3 is too stiff/rigid/sporty for daily driving ever since 2001, yet, you have people come onto these forums and act like they can do better with something less livable.

....and you wonder why a company shifts a bit more towards comfort while still trying to provide some performance. They've been listening to you crybabies for twenty years.

Very few people buy/bought strippers. For those that bought stripper E46/E9X/F8X cars, I commend you. I truly do. You put your money where your mouth is. For the rest of the complainers with fully optioned cars complaining about weight, this thing or that thing.....shut up already. Go buy a used Porsche 911 for about the same price as your fully optioned M car and drive a real sports car.



P.S. People laugh(ed) at the cost of some F8X's too.