[sikotic]

Originally Posted by VipinLJ

The supra is faster than the M340i and even the Z4 M40i.

The only video I've seen of the Supra vs Z4 M40i was with the euro version of the latter which uses the M1 instead of the O1. I have yet to see any video of a Supra vs US Z4 M40i.

[stein_325i]

I don't see anything to be upset about, the car's engine is already underrated no matter what and was putting out impressive numbers in the first place, and is pretty much 90% BMW from the factory regardless of what state of tune it has.

I'm more upset that the car is more BMW than actual Toyota, I would have preferred to see Toyota build their own sports car, they certainly have the money to do so, even Mazda one of the smallest brands on the market is developing their own inline 6 and possibly an RX-9 sports car.

To me, the Supra is more hyped than anything, it handles well and isn't terribly priced, but its relying more on its name and heritage than anything and is also lacking an engaging transmission.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by joshuastein55

I'm more upset that the car is more BMW than actual Toyota, I would have preferred to see Toyota build their own sports car, they certainly have the money to do so, even Mazda one of the smallest brands on the market is developing their own inline 6 and possibly an RX-9 sports car.

100% this.

[CrownRoyal79]

Originally Posted by 37b

Would you be happy if the 2021 M340i had more power than the 2020? ��

Ask the people who bought the 2020 Supra! Lol, I'm sure they're not happy that the 2021 is getting an upgraded engine.

[CrownRoyal79]

Originally Posted by Patgilm

The B58D (B58 O1) engine in the 2021 Supra has a conventional 6 port exhaust manifold vs the 6 into 2 integrated one of the B58C (B58 M1) which is in the 2020 Supra.

You're right, it was a different engine. The 2021 Supra has been upgraded and now shares the same engine as the M340i.

[hans007]

Originally Posted by SteveinArizona

So what? The more choices we get, as consumers, the better. My personal view is that it is not my job in life to support BMW...they are not my employer. So long as they make a car that meets my needs better than anyone else, I will continue to buy BMW; if someone else makes one better for me, I will buy that one.

I applaud BMW for providing the engine to Toyota.

BTW...Mercedes does the same thing with AMG. AMG engines are in Aston Martins and they are NOT detuned.

random tangent but at least Aston Martin did something extra there. the vantage has a manual.

it would be interesting if they shared that manual back to Mercedes for the c class amg

[Cammy440iGC]

What the OP ignores is there would be no BMW Z4 M40I and probably no Z4 3.0i without the Toyota Supra. BMW and Toyotas joint development venture allowed each company to defray development costs so that the Supra and Z4 could happen.

If each had to be developed independently it would have been cost prohibitive and neither the Supra nor the Z4 would have happened.

[upsidedownfunnel]

Originally Posted by hans007

random tangent but at least Aston Martin did something extra there. the vantage has a manual.

it would be interesting if they shared that manual back to Mercedes for the c class amg

Mercedes has never had a manual in an AMG car (though I'm sure someone knows at least one exception to prove me wrong). I don't think a behemoth like Mercedes lacks the ability to put a manual in their cars. They just don't because that's not what Mercedes does. For Mercedes, manuals are truly a low cost option for their lower trim cars.

That's probably why BMW has the much larger enthusiast community. Merc concentrated on making comfortable cruisers fast. BMW concentrated on making driver's cars.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by upsidedownfunnel

Mercedes has never had a manual in an AMG car (though I'm sure someone knows at least one exception to prove me wrong). I don't think a behemoth like Mercedes lacks the ability to put a manual in their cars. They just don't because that's not what Mercedes does. For Mercedes, manuals are truly a low cost option for their lower trim cars.

That's probably why BMW has the much larger enthusiast community. Merc concentrated on making comfortable cruisers fast. BMW concentrated on making driver's cars.

Agree, especially when it came to older Mercedes, they were always luxury first, and if it had a stick, it was for economical/efficiency reasons.

I think the last US Merc you could get with a stick was the W204 (previous) generation C-Class, and even then, you could tell they didn't care much for it because Merc would give it a floor mounted parking brake which I never understood since its awkward to have that and a clutch pedal.

[VipinLJ]

Originally Posted by sikotic

The only video I've seen of the Supra vs Z4 M40i was with the euro version of the latter which uses the M1 instead of the O1. I have yet to see any video of a Supra vs US Z4 M40i.

Yup. I’ve also seen only euro spec cars being raced (video by carwow). In both drag and rolling races, the supra pulled ahead of the z4 by quite a bit.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by VipinLJ

Yup. I’ve also seen only euro spec cars being raced (video by carwow). In both drag and rolling races, the supra pulled ahead of the z4 by quite a bit.

I think C/D testing has both US spec Supra and Z4 40i tied at 3.8sec 0-60, however the rolling start and other time measurements may differ.

[CrownRoyal79]

It's clear that I'm in the minority here. Most people here love that the BMW engine is in the Toyota Supra. Based on some of the comments, some would be thrilled if the B58B30O1 was in every Honda Civic and Kia Forte.

I concede defeat. I blame my Father, lol. He grew up during the American muscle car era and putting a ford engine in a Chevy Camaro was equivalent to blasphemy. Times have definitely changed. I appreciate your opinions.

[upsidedownfunnel]

Originally Posted by CrownRoyal79

It's clear that I'm in the minority here. Most people here love that the BMW engine is in the Toyota Supra. Based on some of the comments, some would be thrilled if the B58B30O1 was in every Honda Civic and Kia Forte.

I concede defeat. I blame my Father, lol. He grew up during the American muscle car era and putting a ford engine in a Chevy Camaro was equivalent to blasphemy. Times have definitely changed. I appreciate your opinions.

There are two different points here I think. It originally sounded like you were disappointed they put the M40i engine the Z4, not that it had a B58 in it at all. That's where most of us disagree with you. If it's going to have the B58, what's the matter if it has the newer high power one vs the one in the normal 40i cars?

If your point is that it's disappointing that Toyota didn't make a new JZ, you might have more that agree with you. Of course it'd be great if there were more competition. Or at least if Toyota co-developed an inline six with Mazda or something. Toyota did zero work on this motor, and I think you'd have a lot more people on your side if it was just a matter of wishing for more competition.

You made it sound like you didn't think Toyota "deserved" the more powerful engine and that it was better than BMW relegated the Supra to the weaker one.

As a BMW owner and enthusiast, I'm disappointed that they're putting the high output B38B30O1 into the 2021 Supra. I thought using the lower output B38B30M1 engine (which was in the 2020 Supra) was the proper thing to do.

With the same engine as the M340i, Toyota lists the Supra 0-60 time at 3.9s which is obviously faster than the M340i.

[mofomat]

Originally Posted by CrownRoyal79

I don't know, maybe I'm just old school. I prefer brand competition. If Toyota wants to build a sports car, they should design an engine that's worthy of a sports car and put their name on it. Competition drives innovation.

If BMW didn't collaborate with Toyota then there wouldn't even be a Z4.

[Top Gon]

Anyone else excited that the Supra will have the same exact engine as the M340?

I think tuning support will finally pick up for this motor once the Supra is onboard

[JayPichardo]

Originally Posted by 4DrSpra

Anyone else excited that the Supra will have the same exact engine as the M340?

I think tuning support will finally pick up for this motor once the Supra is onboard

That's what I am saying.

[TTG]

I am actually upset that Toyota did not reintroduce a full blown new version of the iconic car.

As far as I am concerned, their new BMW only competes with the Z4.

The whole thing is pretty sad actually.

[KoenG]

It was Toyota's intention to put in this engine as from the start, but BMW was not yet ready with it. I believe that the supra is a magnificent car and with this engine, it will be a real cracker! It has become a real upgrown serious sportscar.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by TTG

I am actually upset that Toyota did not reintroduce a full blown new version of the iconic car.

As far as I am concerned, their new BMW only competes with the Z4.

The whole thing is pretty sad actually.

You can be upset but remember that this wouldn't have happened at all for Toyota and for BMW. We should be thankful that there's more sport car offerings regardless of how they come about.

[TTG]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

You can be upset but remember that this wouldn't have happened at all for Toyota and for BMW. We should be thankful that there's more sport car offerings regardless of how they come about.

Domestic car makers are making 500HP + sports cars all day long and in the mid 90's Japanese manufacturers were able to compete with that. Nissan 300ZX, Mitsubishi 3000 GT VR4 & of course the Supra.

I am sorry but between the BRZ and this, Toyota is failing. BRZ is a great car but it is not a AWD Subaru and new Supra is nothing but a BMW.

I would just go buy a BMW if I were in the market for this type of a car.

Partnerships are good / great, take a look at the iconic partnership between Porsche and Mercedes when they created the 500E in 1992. Those cars are still special to this date.

I mean they literally just put an i-drive and a BMW engine in a Japanese car

Its good to have options but I feel like that there are already plenty out there already and someone needs to make something special to stick out. Not restructure an existing car.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by TTG

Domestic car makers are making 500HP + sports cars all day long and in the mid 90's Japanese manufacturers were able to compete with that. Nissan 300ZX, Mitsubishi 3000 GT VR4 & of course the Supra.

I am sorry but between the BRZ and this, Toyota is failing. BRZ is a great car but it is not a AWD Subaru and new Supra is nothing but a BMW.

I would just go buy a BMW if I were in the market for this type of a car.

Partnerships are good / great, take a look at the iconic partnership between Porsche and Mercedes when they created the 500E in 1992. Those cars are still special to this date.

I mean they literally just put an i-drive and a BMW engine in a Japanese car

Its good to have options but I feel like that there are already plenty out there already and someone needs to make something special to stick out. Not restructure an existing car.

What are the "plenty of options" you speak of? American muscle cars are not the competitors to either the Z4 or Supra. Miata, BRZ? Not quite. Porsche Cayman? Yes but you are paying a huge premium. Upcoming C8? Definitely.

Point is, this car wouldn't exist if it weren't for the partnership. So if having iDrive in a Toyota is a defining trait, I'll gladly take it.

[TheJungatron]

If I'm not mistaken this would only help the mod community for the m340i right? They are all about trying to get the Supra to 1000 hp. More mods = competition = cheaper prices