[Ugly Kar]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

Here you go...

So what I got from this:

1) Slow - one of the slowest among its competitors
2) Extremely heavy (over 4,200 lbs)
3) TONS of understeer
4) Looks nice
5) Interior is decent, but rear seat space is lacking

Thanks James/Thomas for telling us what we already know. "The tires can't handle the mass" pretty much says it all. I don't understand why Acura is so lost.

Like I said earlier, you compare a mid/top level Japanese/Am car to the German lowest level, but they still have to have a V6 to compete with the German 4's. Thomas did nail it though, "the 330i with the M-Sport is the one in this category to get for basically the same price".

I don't understand why Toyota doesn't put the B58 in the Lexus IS if they're going to use it for something else. The IS500 with a V8 is going to have to same issues as the Acura.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by Ugly Kar

I don't understand why Toyota doesn't put the B58 in the Lexus IS if they're going to use it for something else. The IS500 with a V8 is going to have to same issues as the Acura.

I'm with you except for this last part. That Lexus V8 is absolutely glorious and a complete joy to drive. It's the lone bright spot in the otherwise mediocre RC-F, and with the better chassis of the IS it should make the IS500 a lot of fun. Sure the B58 will run circles around it, but that V8 oozes character where the B58 starts to feel a bit clinical.

[EXE46]

Everybody with a half a brain knew this car was all hype from a company who's had a history of over promising and under delivering. SH-AWD is junk, nobody else touts their AWD system supposedly superiority like these guys. This company for years has been promoting fake marketing content online. Staging comparisons with the competition and always claim to come out on top. Yet clueless dolts eat it all up and decades later nothing has changed.

[TiMSport]

^^ Your last sentence explains why they don't change anything. Somehow the formula continues to work for them but god knows why. There really are too many clueless people out there.

[madpistol]

Originally Posted by Ugly Kar

I don't understand why Toyota doesn't put the B58 in the Lexus IS if they're going to use it for something else. The IS500 with a V8 is going to have to same issues as the Acura.

That V8 is the main reason I would buy a Lexus IS500. It's an absolutely GLORIOUS engine. I don't care if it's slower or less fuel efficient than the B58. The sound, alone, makes the car have a character that none of BMW's current cars has. The 4.4 Turbo V8 is amazing, but it doesn't sound like the Lexus 5.0 V8.

I absolutely love the B58 in my M340i, but I would trade it for that sonorous Lexus 5.0 V8 in a heartbeat.

[dr_frankfurter]

I've always thought of Acura/Infiniti/Lexus as brands that "non car people" think are great cars. I'd argue for the Type S' price tag, weight, and size you'd have a much better car with just a base 530i. Forget comparing it to the M340i, it's not even close.

[EXE46]

Originally Posted by madpistol

That V8 is the main reason I would buy a Lexus IS500. It's an absolutely GLORIOUS engine. I don't care if it's slower or less fuel efficient than the B58. The sound, alone, makes the car have a character that none of BMW's current cars has. The 4.4 Turbo V8 is amazing, but it doesn't sound like the Lexus 5.0 V8.

I absolutely love the B58 in my M340i, but I would trade it for that sonorous Lexus 5.0 V8 in a heartbeat.

The V8 sure is a good one but what I find rather puzzling is the new hype around this car. Lexus had the motor in the GSF, nobody bought it and so it was cancelled. This same motor is also in the RCF, another car only hardcore toyota fanboys buys.

Now comes the IS500 which suddenly gets all the hype and everyone proclaiming they'd buy one. Why didn't these people buy the GSF or RCF? IS500 won't be as performance oriented as those cars either since it's merely an IS350 with an engine swap and slightly larger brakes and slight tweak to dampers. Next month we will all know how it stocks up especially in pricing because if it's overpriced like the GSF, they will have trouble moving them.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by EXE46

The V8 sure is a good one but what I find rather puzzling is the new hype around this car. Lexus had the motor in the GSF, nobody bought it and so it was cancelled. This same motor is also in the RCF, another car only hardcore toyota fanboys buys.

Now comes the IS500 which suddenly gets all the hype and everyone proclaiming they'd buy one. Why didn't these people buy the GSF or RCF? IS500 won't be as performance oriented as those cars either since it's merely an IS350 with an engine swap and slightly larger brakes and slight tweak to dampers. Next month we will all know how it stocks up especially in pricing because if it's overpriced like the GSF, they will have trouble moving them.

I think people had trouble swallowing the price point of the GSF.

Also, Lexus made critical mistakes with their marketing (or lack there of) with the GSF. And as a result, people assumed it was a direct competitor to the M5 - both because it's an "F" model, and because of the price point. What people failed to consider is that the GSF at its price point was fully loaded. You basically couldn't get any options above what it already had. And so at that price point and feature set, it was a better comparison to the 550i - to which I would argue it was at the time far superior.

Notice how with the IS500 Lexus is being VERY adamant that it's NOT an "F" car, but simply an F sport performance ala m340i. They're trying to rectify their past marketing mistakes.

As far as the RCF is concerned, it's a bit of a mess.... It wasn't on either a dedicated platform or even a brand consistent platform - it was a poorly executed mashup of the IS and GS platforms. It's also always been in a weird spot price-wise - priced like the F82 to start, and you could easily drive the price into the $80k+ range.

I think the hype for the IS500 comes because the IS actually has a good and fun to drive chassis, it's just been underpowered for the better part of a decade. So it's finally getting the power it should have gotten a while back. That and rumors point to it being priced "reasonably". I also happen to think it looks incredible. The biggest things holding me back are the interior and lack of tech. From that angle it's a huge disappointment before it even launches.

[EXE46]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

I think people had trouble swallowing the price point of the GSF.

Also, Lexus made critical mistakes with their marketing (or lack there of) with the GSF. And as a result, people assumed it was a direct competitor to the M5 - both because it's an "F" model, and because of the price point. What people failed to consider is that the GSF at its price point was fully loaded. You basically couldn't get any options above what it already had. And so at that price point and feature set, it was a better comparison to the 550i - to which I would argue it was at the time far superior.

Notice how with the IS500 Lexus is being VERY adamant that it's NOT an "F" car, but simply an F sport performance ala m340i. They're trying to rectify their past marketing mistakes.

As far as the RCF is concerned, it's a bit of a mess.... It wasn't on either a dedicated platform or even a brand consistent platform - it was a poorly executed mashup of the IS and GS platforms. It's also always been in a weird spot price-wise - priced like the F82 to start, and you could easily drive the price into the $80k+ range.

I think the hype for the IS500 comes because the IS actually has a good and fun to drive chassis, it's just been underpowered for the better part of a decade. So it's finally getting the power it should have gotten a while back. That and rumors point to it being priced "reasonably". I also happen to think it looks incredible. The biggest things holding me back are the interior and lack of tech. From that angle it's a huge disappointment before it even launches.

I hear your thoughts but for someone like me who left the 3IS camp for the G20. I don't foresee much to compel me to return despite the V8. The engine does have character but as you pointed out, the car has many other deficiencies compared to the competition. Now if I was still driving a Lexus 3IS this IS500 would make a natural upgrade. As they say, "ignorance is bliss" lol. Back in 2016 thru 2018 we all hoped Lexus would have given us this car or something with better performance than the IS350. Especially since I made the mistake of getting the IS200T which was a big fail.

This car will be much like the TLX -S where it's mostly Toyota fanboys who will be clamoring for one. Another thing I also noticed about the typical Toyota fanboy is that they're all about getting a bargain. Therefore, most buy used which again explains why Lexus high performances cars don't do well in sales and may also explain why they don't invest much in this arena.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by EXE46

I hear your thoughts but for someone like me who left the 3IS camp for the G20. I don't foresee much to compel me to return despite the V8. The engine does have character but as you pointed out, the car has many other deficiencies compared to the competition. Now if I was still driving a Lexus 3IS this IS500 would make a natural upgrade. As they say, "ignorance is bliss" lol. Back in 2016 thru 2018 we all hoped Lexus would have given us this car or something with better performance than the IS350. Especially since I made the mistake of getting the IS200T which was a big fail.

This car will be much like the TLX -S where it's mostly Toyota fanboys who will be clamoring for one. Another thing I also noticed about the typical Toyota fanboy is that they're all about getting a bargain. Therefore, most buy used which again explains why Lexus high performances cars don't do well in sales and may also explain why they don't invest much in this arena.

I'm in the same boat - The IS at this point is no longer a compelling vehicle even with the V8 (Although I admit the V8 did make me blink lol). Funny thing is 2016 is actually when I sold my 2IS, and at the time I remember saying "man, the only thing holding me back from getting a new IS is the lack of power - was great in 2008, not so much in 2016". Also back then the tech/interior wasn't so severely outdated as it is now.

I still peruse Lexus forums from time to time, and the #1 focus point that people talk about as the advantage over BMW/Mercedes is value and reliability lol. It's not uncommon to see a comment along the lines of "good luck keeping that bimmer out of the shop and from burning a hole in your wallet".

[EXE46]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

I'm in the same boat - The IS at this point is no longer a compelling vehicle even with the V8 (Although I admit the V8 did make me blink lol). Funny thing is 2016 is actually when I sold my 2IS, and at the time I remember saying "man, the only thing holding me back from getting a new IS is the lack of power - was great in 2008, not so much in 2016". Also back then the tech/interior wasn't so severely outdated as it is now.

I still peruse Lexus forums from time to time, and the #1 focus point that people talk about as the advantage over BMW/Mercedes is value and reliability lol. It's not uncommon to see a comment along the lines of "good luck keeping that bimmer out of the shop and from burning a hole in your wallet".

Haha! I also visit now and then to read their perspectives and it's the same old redundant talking points you observed lol. Quite annoying frankly, before my 2016 IS200T FSport I had a manual E46 sedan I put almost 200k on before selling.

Yet the typical Toyota fanboy would tell you that never happens with a BMW. Over at Acura it's the same BS propaganda they spew to justify the failure that the TLXS is. Notwithstanding that Acura and Honda is nowhere near as reliable as they used to be back in the nineties. Today their reliability is average at best, one probably better off buying a Kia lol.

[NoSugar]

Let me start by saying the TLX Type S is an impressive car. There is a lot to love here, up until the point you start comparing it to a BMW.

I went to check out the TLX Type S, and I really really liked it. The design looks much better in person. It's a very aggressive and sporty looking car. They did an absolutely amazing job and is a great departure form the last TLX.

The rear quarter panels and wheel arches really give it a 6 series vibe, and look very aggressive. Design is absolutely stunning.

The exhaust note is also growly and will get a lot of peoples attention. To my ears, it actually sounds a bit better than the M340i (sorry)!!

The twin turbo V6 will no doubt perform well and the 10 speed auto is also one of Hondas strengths.

The interior cabin is relaxing, feels premium and the dash board and center console scream Acura NSX. I liked the cabin alot.

However, this is not a BMW competitor. This maybe would go against a lexus, infinity or mercedes. Because once you touch the BMW or take the drivers seat, thats when this comparison starts to make less sense.

The fit and finish of the BMW is far superior, the M340i is much much quicker and enjoys far more refined suspension and steering than the Acura.

The wireless Apple CarPlay was also a huge factor for me, believe it or not. The TLX type S still needs a cable. Stupid!

Ultimately the Acura is oversized, weighs too much and has far less rear passenger legroom. And if sportiness is not a factor and you can overlook the difference in fit, finish and interior quality, it may not be a bad alternative.

Odd enough, I ended up going with a 330i M sport just like those 2 blokes suggested. This is the sweet spot IMO. The M340i, while absolutely incredible, does not offer enough differentiation for a daily driver (in my case), and stickers for roughly $10-15k more when comparably equipped.

[renig]

I had this car on my list but in my opinion it's not in same class as m340i. I went and checked it out and was really disappointed. The technology is lacking and the dealership here had a 5k addendum which brought the price up to 60k. I went to bmw dealership afterwards and test drove m340i and that was it. Don't think the s type is in same class but costs are similar. I ordered m340i.

[EXE46]

Looks is subjective, lest not forget and perhaps we find the M340i's understated looks a plus. TLX-S looks very aggressive with its quad exhausts and wide stance but when push comes to shove its more poseur than anything else. M340i is a sleeper and some people relish that wolf in sheep's clothing image. I for one don't need the added attention and don't find it looking identical to a 330i as a negative. Furthermore, with so many of us here with this car I assume most feel the same as I do.

The Acura screams look at me and gives the illusion that it is a special high performance sports sedan which it certainly is not. Even at the current price it is overpriced for what it is. Why anyone would buy this thing over a G70 defies logic.

[madpistol]

Originally Posted by EXE46

Looks is subjective, lest not forget and perhaps we find the M340i's understated looks a plus. TLX-S looks very aggressive with its quad exhausts and wide stance but when push comes to shove its more poseur than anything else. M340i is a sleeper and some people relish that wolf in sheep's clothing image. I for one don't need the added attention and don't find it looking identical to a 330i as a negative. Furthermore, with so many of us here with this car I assume most feel the same as I do.

The Acura screams look at me and gives the illusion that it is a special high performance sports sedan which it certainly is not. Even at the current price it is overpriced for what it is. Why anyone would buy this thing over a G70 is beyond logical.

The M340i has hints of performance on the outside, but it definitely looks like a normal 3 series to the untrained eye. That is the magic of the car. You know it will be quick because it’s a BMW 3 series. But then you try and race it with a Mustang GT with its 5.0 V8 and nearly 500 HP… and lose. That makes the M340i an absolutely fantastic German sleeper.

[TruthOne]

For me the GSF is too big and is hideous looking. I hate the looks. The RC F is too heavy and not practical at all. I love the IS looks and always wanted an ISF and this is as close as it gets. In fact somebody on club Lexus actually put that V8 in an IS a while ago. A Russian member. It was pretty amazing. Yea it's not a true "F" car but it's close enough for now an IS F is coming later but that thing will easily be pushing 80 grand. At that price point unless it's actually competitive ill go G80 over ISF . Previous gen F cars got smoked by German competition. Hopefully Lexus will get their act together this time around

[Ugly Kar]

I know some love the Lexus V8, but with the added weight over the front axles I just don’t see it as being a great drivers/handling car. It also won’t come close to the BMW in MPG. I know that’s pretty irrelevant at this price point, but I don’t like wasting fuel regardless.

I just don’t see a good Japanese alternative, and that comes from a once Acura fanboy as my first new car was an Acura Integra. That was a great driving little car. It was down on power compared to today, but it had a great smooth shifting manual that was a joy. Acura offers nothing like that today.

If you don’t go German, then the next best option is certainly the G70/Stinger. Still faster/better driving than the Japanese options and probably better quality. But even they need to go on a diet.

[EXE46]

Originally Posted by Ugly Kar

I know some love the Lexus V8, but with the added weight over the front axles I just don’t see it as being a great drivers/handling car. It also won’t come close to the BMW in MPG. I know that’s pretty irrelevant at this price point, but I don’t like wasting fuel regardless.

I just don’t see a good Japanese alternative, and that comes from a once Acura fanboy as my first new car was an Acura Integra. That was a great driving little car. It was down on power compared to today, but it had a great smooth shifting manual that was a joy. Acura offers nothing like that today.

If you don’t go German, then the next best option is certainly the G70/Stinger. Still faster/better driving than the Japanese options and probably better quality. But even they need to go on a diet.

My first car after landing on American soil was the Acura Integra LS sedan auto trans, bought used. A few years later I ended up buying the hatchback version in manual..

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by Ugly Kar

But even they need to go on a diet.

The G70 is pretty much on par with the 3er in terms of weight : And the Kia Stinger is only about 100lbs heavier despite being a larger vehicle. They're pretty much on par with the competition.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by EXE46

My first car after landing on American soil was the Acura Integra LS sedan auto trans, bought used. A few years later I ended up buying the hatchback version in manual..

I drove a friend's Integra hatchback 5-speed a few times over Santa Cruz Mountain heading to the ocean, and the high-revving VTEC 1.8L 170HP was lots of fun on hilly roads.

[Ugly Kar]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

The G70 is pretty much on par with the 3er in terms of weight : And the Kia Stinger is only about 100lbs heavier despite being a larger vehicle. They're pretty much on par with the competition.

Is there anything besides a Chevy Spark that doesn't need to go on a diet?

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by Ugly Kar

Is there anything besides a Chevy Spark that doesn't need to go on a diet?

Miata pretty much is it. Everything else is fat.