[TheRetroGuy]

DSC OFF means DTC ON. And DTC is a variant of DSC. So DSC is always on. Unless it isn't.

This is one of those things that struck me as a bit odd, not having owned a recent model BMW. I'm sure it's intuitive to long-time bimmer owners, but I'm posting here hoping that writing about it helps me to remember.

Apparently for better traction in snow, I should press the DSC button to turn dynamic stability control off, and this enables DTC.

From a UI perspective I'd say this would be better if they labeled it a "DSC/DTC" toggle. Better still just have a "Snow" button like Lexus.

Sometimes I think BMW philosophy is that the more they force us into unusual, counter-intuitive ways of interacting with machines, the more people will keep coming back to their cars because they will have forgotten how everything works elsewhere? Hell maybe they're onto something. Still wrapping my head around the BMW thought process... They did sell it as the ultimate driving machine, and that doesn't imply ease of use

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by TheRetroGuy

DSC OFF means DTC ON. And DTC is a variant of DSC. So DSC is always on. Unless it isn't.

This is one of those things that struck me as a bit odd, not having owned a recent model BMW. I'm sure it's intuitive to long-time bimmer owners, but I'm posting here hoping that writing about it helps me to remember.

Apparently for better traction in snow, I should press the DSC button to turn dynamic stability control off, and this enables DTC.

From a UI perspective I'd say this would be better if they labeled it a "DSC/DTC" toggle. Better still just have a "Snow" button like Lexus.

Sometimes I think BMW philosophy is that the more they force us into unusual, counter-intuitive ways of interacting with machines, the more people will keep coming back to their cars because they will have forgotten how everything works elsewhere? Hell maybe they're onto something. Still wrapping my head around the BMW thought process... They did sell it as the ultimate driving machine, and that doesn't imply ease of use

Simply solved by reading the user manual.

DTC has been this way for 15 or more years. Straight forward short press and DTC is active, with international symbol displayed for DSC 'modification'. Longer press and DSC moves to minimum function.

[TheRetroGuy]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Simply solved by reading the user manual.

To be honest, the owner's manual is helpful in some areas and a little off in others. I got the impression the original was probably well written in German but received a semi-skilled translation.

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

DTC has been this way for 15 or more years. Straight forward short press and DTC is active, with international symbol displayed for DSC 'modification'. Longer press and DSC moves to minimum function.

Sure, and as mentioned I know this is no doubt intuitive to long time BMW owners, but to newcomers it's not very intuitive IMHO. I read much of the owners manual before my car arrived -- but at the end of the day I'll never be able to memorize it all... This is a tenant of all product engineering and one reason "user experience" has increasingly meant designing the product to be so self-explanatory that the user won't need to memorize several hundred pages of documentation. Many drivers that aren't driving through un-plowed snow every day, will just want to know how to get the best traction during the very occasional case a "snow mode" is needed.

[tturedraider]

If you turn DSC off completely DTC is also turned off. DTC is an element of DSC. When DTC is engaged the function of DSC is slightly diminished in that DSC prevents ALL wheel slippage and DTC allows a limited amount of wheel slippage. As mentioned, a short push of the DTC button engages DTC. Holding the button down for approximately five seconds completely disengages DSC, including DTC, leaving all of the driving assistant nannies turned off. At that point you’re completely on your own.

[upsidedownfunnel]

To be honest, BMW doesn't even want most people to fully turn off DSC. They only have the option because a small minority of people and car reviewers want the ability. So it's just one of those things that you know if you need to know.

The vast majority of people driving BMWs will never fully disable DSC and BMW probably has no problem with that. They certainly don't want you to do it accidentally.

[TheRetroGuy]

Thanks everyone. I believe I have wrapped my head around the three modes available via the single switch a bit better now, which was one reason I wanted to start the thread (writing and interacting about these things helps me remember). Since the G20 has such a nice screen, I think they could clarify things by just calling the "in between" mode "snow" and maybe depicting the car animation with snow all around on the display.

Holding the button to turn DSC off makes total sense to me. Where it became confusing was the illustrations in the owners manual (which do not show exactly how it is displayed in the car cluster); when actually in the car and toggling the three modes, the display helps clarify a bit. But still requires learning and thinking about the feature a bit beforehand to know which is snow mode.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by TheRetroGuy

Thanks everyone. I believe I have wrapped my head around the three modes available via the single switch a bit better now, which was one reason I wanted to start the thread (writing and interacting about these things helps me remember). Since the G20 has such a nice screen, I think they could clarify things by just calling the "in between" mode "snow" and maybe depicting the car animation with snow all around on the display.

Holding the button to turn DSC off makes total sense to me. Where it became confusing was the illustrations in the owners manual (which do not show exactly how it is displayed in the car cluster); when actually in the car and toggling the three modes, the display helps clarify a bit. But still requires learning and thinking about the feature a bit beforehand to know which is snow mode.

One thing to note, DTC is not just about snow. User manual rightly gives the impression it is the main user focus. Many of us drive with DTC 'on', when we want a bit more freedom in the chassis. Prevents as much brake intervention as you push on a bit, but still have key DSC functions working in the background.

DTC used to have its own icon, but legislation regarding restricting the DSC function, (in any way) meant a change to "DSC OFF". BMW applied the new format from the F01/02 models.

[TheRetroGuy]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

One thing to note, DTC is not just about snow. User manual rightly gives the impression it is the main user focus. Many of us drive with DTC 'on', when we want a bit more freedom in the chassis. Prevents as much brake intervention as you push on a bit, but still have key DSC functions working in the background.

DTC used to have its own icon, but legislation regarding restricting the DSC function, (in any way) meant a change to "DSC OFF". BMW applied the new format from the F01/02 models.

Very interesting - this kind of tidbit of info is why I love this forum! The fact that legislation got in between and influenced the user experience explains some things