[225]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HOeRpQ1ZTtQ

No matter how clever, a highly strung 2.0 four pot just isnt suitable to this type of car. Might suit the a45 better I'm not sure but if you are spending the sort of money they all cost you still want a 6pot while you can! Or just go full EV.

Only one review I know but interesting to hear the comments about driving the new c43 normally. I.e it's bloody awful!

[Stooo]

You won’t have a choice of a 6 pot next time. No 6 pots in the new 5 series in Europe so no chance of the new 3 having one.

On the EV side, bit early for me, I’ll maybe give it 5-10 years, I don’t think the battery technology is quite there yet. Id be ok with a plug-in with a decent range though, maybe a 530e when I swap my 340 out.

[Charlie (Wessex)]

I'm with stooolpe with the battery tech. When solid state arrives shortly (believe Toyota bringing one out in a couple of years) then all current batteries will be obsolete. And what's next after solid state?

As for 4cyl vs 6 cyl. I got my first 6 in 1996 and dipped back into a 4 in 2018. TBH I didn't really miss the 6, but when I came back to it, I greatly appreciated the extra 2 cylinders.

[UnluckySaxon]

B48 is a bullet proof engine to be fair. Theres a Yank on YT https://www.youtube.com/@VehicularDIY who has been doing some great mods and its really interesting to watch

[SonD]

I'd be more than a little surprised if the 550e does not get the B58 L6, or the M560 later in 2024.
The US spec 550e is already listed with power outputs etc. & price.

I guess it's possible that they use the 4pot for it, but honestly cant see it.

https://www.bmw.co.uk/en/all-models/...-overview.html

Such a shame it will no longer exists in a 3, (M340i?) it is a dream of an engine.

[Charlie (Wessex)]

I know we all view things differently, but I buy this brand because of the engine and in particular the i6, and then of course how the car transfers that to the road. When I got my first BMW, the choice of RWD diesel i6 was limited to BMW, Mercedes and Vauxhall (who used a detuned BMW engine). Merc was a bit old man for me back in those days, so BMW was the choice.

The badge doesn't interest me. So if all these expensive car manufacturers are going to go 4 cylinder, then there's a good chance that I will look elsewhere & save a fortune. Though in reality I'm not looking to change my car any time soon & hopefully battery tech will have moved way further on. Solid state??

Fortunately for those looking at a 5er, you can still configure a 540i Touring but the saloon seems to have got rid of the i6 (is it temporary or permanent?)

[bmnut]

Originally Posted by Charlie (Wessex)

I know we all view things differently, but I buy this brand because of the engine and in particular the i6, and then of course how the car transfers that to the road. When I got my first BMW, the choice of RWD diesel i6 was limited to BMW, Mercedes and Vauxhall (who used a detuned BMW engine). Merc was a bit old man for me back in those days, so BMW was the choice.

The badge doesn't interest me. So if all these expensive car manufacturers are going to go 4 cylinder, then there's a good chance that I will look elsewhere & save a fortune. Though in reality I'm not looking to change my car any time soon & hopefully battery tech will have moved way further on. Solid state??

Fortunately for those looking at a 5er, you can still configure a 540i Touring but the saloon seems to have got rid of the i6 (is it temporary or permanent?)

Funnily enough I'm very much the same view as you Charlie.
I bought my first BMW back in 1982 (when I was single and still living at home!) and it was a humble BMW 316 but it was the engine, the engineering and the layout that got my attention when all my mates were buying the 'must have' Golf GTi. It's those aspects of the make that have captivated me in over 40 years of ownership of the marque (with only a couple of short term 'strayings' from it, once an Orion Ghia injection, dire, lasted four months and only because of the bleatings from my first wife (she only lasted six years before divorce as well!) and a Mercedes 190E 2 litre when I was far too young for 'pipe and slippers', that one only lasted eight months.
It was quite some years later when I finally got my hands on a six cylinder BMW and have never looked back since.
The current one is an absolute gem and I have absolutely no intention of veering off into the hybrid or fully electric fold anytime soon, I think I might stay with the current car for ever!

I have to add though that the wife's B48 2 litre is a bloody good second though!

[Charlie (Wessex)]

My mother has a 2016 120i. Burbles along quite nicely. Never driven it though.

I find the B48 output a little strange. Or rather I don't understand BMW's thinking behind it. The B48A20T1 comes with 302bhp so rivals the top spec engines like the EA888, even if shy 20bhp or so. But why didn't the 3 ever come with that variant? Instead being the M35i and some Mini versions. Surely there could be room for a high powered 4cyl as well as the 6cyl M40i??

[bmnut]

Originally Posted by Charlie (Wessex)

My mother has a 2016 120i. Burbles along quite nicely. Never driven it though.

I find the B48 output a little strange. Or rather I don't understand BMW's thinking behind it. The B48A20T1 comes with 302bhp so rivals the top spec engines like the EA888, even if shy 20bhp or so. But why didn't the 3 ever come with that variant? Instead being the M35i and some Mini versions. Surely there could be room for a high powered 4cyl as well as the 6cyl M40i??

In all the years I've been with the marque I've never quite understood that either!

I've been told a number of times over the years in past conversations with many who have been and some who still are employed by BMW that the company is always conscious of models within the ranges getting too close to each other from the point of view of performance and the potential impact on sales of, for example, the 'halo' car being shunned in preference for, say, the model directly below it in the line-up. Maybe this is true when you look at the M340i/M440i v the M3/M4 and the fact that the Competition models of the latter two are now the only ones on sale for us in the UK.
Whilst there will always be buyers out there for the M3/M4 for whatever reason I can't help but think there may well be some who see the M340i/M440i as a more attractive 'real world' proposition if not on the grounds of overall running costs if nothing else.

I have by choice tended to stay with a car at or near the 'top of the model range' of the standard, non-M version over the latter years, partly down to far more palatable running costs and partly due to a perception of potential frustration of being unable to use and appreciate the true potential of an M3/M4 the way it is designed despite friends and family often asking me why don't I fancy the M version. The other factor, which is just my personal preference, is that I always spec a sunroof in my cars which isn't possible with an M4 for example.

At the risk of straying off topic on this thread and getting back to the original theme of it, I chose my current car very carefully with respect to engine choice and spec from build with the intention of it being a 'keeper' because I personally don't believe we are anywhere near ready yet in this country to persuade me to seriously consider a full EV. As I fairly regularly do journeys in excess of three hundred miles and that's just one-way, I would want an EV that can run for at least 700-750miles on a single charge. I feel sure in the near or even distant future that may well happen but until that time comes I shall stay with my B58 MHT 3 litre straight six in all it's glory!

[Charlie (Wessex)]

I understand the concerns about models getting too close to each other. But surely.....

• M335i (so to call it) with 300 bhp
• M340i with 375bhp
• M3 with 510 bhp

....would have clear daylight between them, not least the 35i and 40i with cylinder count. Maybe up the output of the 40i a bit to 400bhp (which some think it near enough is anyway) as that's not really going to impinge on the M3. So having 300/400/510+, IMO would work, but obviously I know nothing about marketing.

I've had a 310bhp 4cyl estate car before, and had great fun in it. So the question is, if presented with a choice of a 4cyl 300bhp Touring or a 6 cyl 375-400bhp Touring, which would I go for? Going directly against what I wrote earlier about there being enough difference not to impinge on models, I might well go for the 4 cyl with its lower running costs. 300bhp is more than enough power for road cars (and TBH so is 250bhp)

[Charlie (Wessex)]

Originally Posted by bmnut

As I fairly regularly do journeys in excess of three hundred miles and that's just one-way, I would want an EV that can run for at least 700-750miles on a single charge. I feel sure in the near or even distant future that may well happen but until that time comes I shall stay with my B58 MHT 3 litre straight six in all it's glory!

100%

Solid state batteries are going to be a game changer, and I think Merc have one that can do 1200km. Toyota I believe are bringing out to market a solid state battery in a couple of years.

So the question is, how much of a change in habits are people prepared to endure. I've got a 530 mile journey coming up in a few weeks (and then the return) which is going to take long enough to do without having to recharge every 200 miles or so, as well as wondering where in the Highlands of Scotland I am going to find a decent charger.

Ostensibly I am more than happy to move from ICE to EV, but the product isn't right yet.

One other change I think I'll have to do is how I buy the car. Not sure it's worth being a cash buyer any more, esp for current EVs.

[Herr Gross Byte]

I was talking to a Tessla owner the other day. He told me his car was faster. So I challenged him to a race from London to Vienna (1000 miles). He shut up.

[Charlie (Wessex)]

If.....

Japanese firm believes it could make a solid-state battery with a range of 745 miles that charges in 10 minutes
https://www.theguardian.com/business...-electric-cars

...then that's a no brainer IMO. I know you'll get some who will bemoan the loss of a raucous V8, but I've got to the stage in life where I'm either happy to have it quiet or augmented through the speakers (if I was so inclined).

[paulockenden]

For the past decade or more there’s been at least one news story a week about some revolutionary new battery technology, with higher capacity, faster charging, or both. It doesn’t pay to look too much into the detail, though. Because usually there is none.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Charlie (Wessex)

If.....

Japanese firm believes it could make a solid-state battery with a range of 745 miles that charges in 10 minutes

Sounds fine, until we consider the capacity of the charger to fill a battery with those miles, in 10 minutes.

Imagine the infrastructure required to supply just a few batteries at the same time!

[bmnut]

Originally Posted by Charlie (Wessex)

I understand the concerns about models getting too close to each other. But surely.....

• M335i (so to call it) with 300 bhp
• M340i with 375bhp
• M3 with 510 bhp

....would have clear daylight between them, not least the 35i and 40i with cylinder count. Maybe up the output of the 40i a bit to 400bhp (which some think it near enough is anyway) as that's not really going to impinge on the M3. So having 300/400/510+, IMO would work, but obviously I know nothing about marketing.

I've had a 310bhp 4cyl estate car before, and had great fun in it. So the question is, if presented with a choice of a 4cyl 300bhp Touring or a 6 cyl 375-400bhp Touring, which would I go for? Going directly against what I wrote earlier about there being enough difference not to impinge on models, I might well go for the 4 cyl with its lower running costs. 300bhp is more than enough power for road cars (and TBH so is 250bhp)

You're absolutely right in what you say about 250bhp being more than sufficient in real world terms and like you I know the square root of sod all about marketing so it's just a layman's theory!
I prefer the quiet, silky smoothness of a straight six to the more 'busy' sounding and slight unevenness of the 4 cylinder despite the best efforts of the balancer shafts.
My late father was a retired senior lecturer in marine and mechanical engineering and as a boy visiting him when he was 'at work' in the engine shop with his students and marvelling at the huge Doxford ship's diesel engines his students were learning their craft on and always remember him explaining to a knowledge thirsty youngster how a straight six engine had the first and second moments of motion in perfect equilibrium hence the reason for it's inherent smoothness without the need for balancer shafts, that's obviously what has stuck in my mind for all these years!
Can you remember BMWs advertising campaign for their 5 litre V12 engines back in the late 70's and early 80's with it running at idle and a butterfly quite happily settled on the rocker box cover? Or the other one with a fifty pence coin standing on edge without falling off?......Outstanding!

[bmnut]

Originally Posted by Herr Gross Byte

I was talking to a Tessla owner the other day. He told me his car was faster. So I challenged him to a race from London to Vienna (1000 miles). He shut up.

Brilliant!!

[bmnut]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Sounds fine, until we consider the capacity of the charger to fill a battery with those miles, in 10 minutes.

Imagine the infrastructure required to supply just a few batteries at the same time!

..and I think that's the very essence of it all, the infrastructure is just not ready or in place to support all these grand ideas yet and I imagine is still a good few years off.
Interesting that governments and countries are 'pushing back' (or is it 'rowing back' these days?) on the 2030 target date to 2035 .. for now?

[The_Tok'Ra]

Soild State batteries could well be the way forward for EV's. but from what I've read, there are a few fairly major hurdles that need to be overcome before it's a viable replacement ICE cars.

1) They require the use ogf about twice as much lithuim to produce each cell, which is becoming a commodity that's increasingly harder to source, and so the market value of lithium keeps going up.

2) Solid State batteries are harder and more costly to manufacture, roughly about two to three times as expensive as Lithium Ion batteries like for like battery capacity wise, and curent EV batteries (Li-Ion) are not exaclty cheap. However engery density is roughly twice as high as Li-Ion packs, so the packs could be smaller and lighter for the same driving range, or the same massive weight and size for much longer ranges. Or somewhere in between of course.

3) Infrastructure. In order to be able to charge a very large battery pack in only 10 minutes, you would need to be charging at considerably higher currents than the majority (or possibly any) of the currently publicy available EV charging stations are capable of providing, never mind home charging stations.

We are a very, very long way from having the infractucture to support such power requirements and the investment required would be mind bendingly expensive, and take decades to plan and complete.

Solid State batteries will be in mobile phones in a few yeas from now I expect, possibly even sooner, but for big vehicle sized packs, that might be a while yet IMHO, despite Toyota's bold claims.

Personally, I'd like to see more investment in syntheic fuels to bring the costs of that down to something a bit more palatable than £9-10 per ltr.

[bmnut]

Bloody hell!...How much for synthetic fuel? Even when they introduced synthetic engine oil as an alternative to mineral oil the percentage difference wasn't anywhere near as big as that!

[The_Tok'Ra]

Originally Posted by bmnut

Bloody hell!...How much for synthetic fuel? Even when they introduced synthetic engine oil as an alternative to mineral oil the percentage difference wasn't anywhere near as big as that!

I don't think that price even includes any taxes. And since our current fuel duty is 57.95p per ltr, plus 20% VAT on top of the fuel price AND the duty, we'd be looking at around £24 per ltr

[Charlie (Wessex)]

Is hydrogen going to be a viable fuel? It seems batteries have a huge amount of hurdles (not that hydrogen won't)?