[Rawhide]

Originally Posted by Roth517

And I bet you don't correct people when they think you have an actual ///M car. Nice 340i, bro.

Nope. And I'll continue doing it knowing it upsets you so much.
I'm watering down your precious brand and making the additional 20k you spent apparently just for bragging rights vanish down the drain.

An //M badge for you, and an //M badge for you. //M Badges for everyone!! Whoo hoo! Thanks BMW!

[toddwalton]

Originally Posted by Dan B

Almost every pure M car I see the driver is younger and driving like they stole it. Or they are just adding the spoiler, MPE, and badging to make people think it is a M car.

There are posers for every car manufacturer. I see it all the time. The guy wearing the Ferrari jacket, hat, shirt, shorts, and socks is a perfect example.

There is also the older set who just walk into the dealer and pick the most expensive car that appeals to them. They don't look at options or performance, they just point at a 2/3/4/5/7 series and say "I want the top car with all options" and the dealer orders them a loaded M car.

Agreed, the point being that the vast majority of the so-called "pure M" owners aren't tracking their cars or pushing the limits of possible performance. These are glorified grocery getters that look expensive and impress people at 10 mph cruising down main street.

And there is nothing wrong with that, by the way. It's the implication that the actual owners of these cars are diehard enthusiasts that is what's wrong, the misperception at least.

BMW doesn't see the need to 'protect' the M badge anymore because they know their customers aren't radical performance hounds anymore and/or they know that today's M340i provides the same or superior driving experience than the E46 or E90 M3's of yore.

[toddwalton]

Originally Posted by Roth517

Yes, four cylinder cars of today are faster than V8 powered cars of 30 years ago. So what? Doesn't mean BMW should slap ///M badges on the trunk lids of mid-range models when, before this generation, it never did so.

The point is that your benchmark for epic ///M performance metrics has been achieved in cars with smaller engines. That should be celebrated, not looked down upon. BMW engineering is fine with ///M badges on 30i M-Sport's and M40i's. So too should you. It's not for you to say. It's BMW. And they do.

Originally Posted by Roth517

But the ///M engineers work on ///M cars and not the lesser ones. It's all about ///Marketing now. Sad.

That's not true. The same ///M division that produces the M3 produces the M340i and M-Sport 330i variants too. That's precisely why they all wear the ///M badge. They have earned it.

Originally Posted by Roth517

High pedestal? YES, BMW has earned it. I have a high reverence for actual ///M cars because of the reputation they've developed and hate seeing that watered down with mid-range 3ers and 4ers with an ///M badge before their numerical model.

That's not your call, sorry. BMW says it is so. So it is.

Originally Posted by Roth517

By the way, why you mad, bro? You drive an X7 and 4 Series GC.

I'm not mad at all. But candidly I am tired of the same silly 2004 forum narratives that a few obscure enthusiasts still hold on to. It's time to let it go. It's 20 years already. It isn't that important. BMW has moved on. You should too.

And, most importantly, a) everyone who would know the difference between 30i's, 40i's, and M's can't be fooled and b) those who don't have a clue don't know what they're looking at. So who is hurt here? No one. Let people enjoy the cars they bought the way they want.

[toddwalton]

Originally Posted by Roth517

Mid-40s here and I track, and have tracked, many of the my cars in my sig at multiple tracks, including my G82, TODD. And if you were to ever show up to a track day, you'd see a paddock with numerous M3s and M4s from different generations. But I doubt you've ever been in a track paddock.

Props to you and the 1% of the BMW population that track your cars, bravo.

Leave the 99% of us who have other hobbies alone. You have no moral high ground because you choose to drive around in circles on the weekends while the rest of us drive around to soccer practice.

And it's becoming apparent that this is what is actually bothering you- it's not 'respect' or 'tradition. You want a ///M badge to be some signal to the world that you are a super-special car racer, some status symbol, and BMW deciding to put the badge on daily drivers is vexing you.

How about you get one of those big white circle number decals and plaster it on the hood and doors. Lets everyone know that you're Fonzie and lets all of us Richie Cunningham's drive in peace. Good?

[toddwalton]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

Well, I think both views can be acceptable but there’s some objective realities here.

I had the 430i with the m performance suspension and took it on the tail of the dragon. It handled well, and low end torque was great. But it doesn’t have the performance of the e46 m3.

I took my z4 m40 to the tail as well. Same thing - quick, but suspension and brakes and top end are lacking relative to the e93 m3 or any of the true M cars I’ve had. I invested in the Z4 suspension and it handled much better. The handschalter should fix some of the shortcomings - and may as well earn that badge.

22 years ago I took my 323ci canyon carving in Southern California - absolutely handled well. But when I stepped up to the 330 and did the same and then the e46 M3, the M was leagues apart. And based on my experience the delta is still there today.

So I believe true M high performance cars are worth the M badge on the back.

But I look at an M340 or Z4M40 or M440i and say ok- acceptable but not ideal. Doesn’t bother me too much.

We can all agree an X6 40i with a fake M badge added is a bit tacky.

Some good points, but seeing as we trust in BMW to create fantastic cars and throw great time and money towards them, we should trust in BMW to brand these cars accordingly as well.

Makes no sense to me how some can embrace only a portion of the brand they supposedly are so dedicated and loyal to. You can't love half a wife. You can't love half a car brand. If BMW wants to throw M badges on M-Sport cars, that's the decision, time to live with it. It's been 13 years since the first M fender badge appeared on a 328i, 5 years since the M340i was launched. Time to let this go.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by toddwalton

Some good points, but seeing as we trust in BMW to create fantastic cars and throw great time and money towards them, we should trust in BMW to brand these cars accordingly as well.

Makes no sense to me how some can embrace only a portion of the brand they supposedly are so dedicated and loyal to. You can't love half a wife. You can't love half a car brand. If BMW wants to throw M badges on M-Sport cars, that's the decision, time to live with it. It's been 13 years since the first M fender badge appeared on a 328i, 5 years since the M340i was launched. Time to let this go.

I think it’s more of an intellectual debate, but I feel more loved when I’m in a full-blown M performance car.

[Dan B]

Originally Posted by toddwalton

Some good points, but seeing as we trust in BMW to create fantastic cars and throw great time and money towards them, we should trust in BMW to brand these cars accordingly as well.

Makes no sense to me how some can embrace only a portion of the brand they supposedly are so dedicated and loyal to. You can't love half a wife. You can't love half a car brand. If BMW wants to throw M badges on M-Sport cars, that's the decision, time to live with it. It's been 13 years since the first M fender badge appeared on a 328i, 5 years since the M340i was launched. Time to let this go.

You must not be married?

[BMW012]

Originally Posted by Roth517

Simple: It's not an ///M car. It's the mid-range of the 4 Series. Ever since, oh, I don't know, THE E30, it's range has been something like the 325i, the 330i, and M3. Now it's the 430i (even though it should be the 420i because it had a 2.0 liter engine), the M440i (even though it's not an ///M car and has a 3.0 liter engine), and M4.

Slapping the ///M badge in front of the 440i is silly ///Marketing by BMW and dilutes what ///M stood for for many years: Motorsports and, in the case of the road cars, the highest performing version of the model range.

PS: Your car should be the 550i, not the ///M550i. But ///Marketing!

If that is your philosophy, your car is the most far away from a true "M", if you are so hardcore why did you get xdrive? and you drive a AUTOMATIC?? your are hilarious MR. HARDCORE M MOTORSPORT. Why are you even on this forum stay in your "M" forum. Also the real M3 ended with the NA V8. See how this conversation goes???

BMW placed an M on these cars, because they come with upgraded M parts. That's the bottom line. I have 523 hp with 553 TQ. More than your fake M4.

[Roth517]

I knew that M3 joke would trigger you.

Originally Posted by Rawhide

Are you salty you can't afford a 911 GTS?

Yes, those are sweet cars. But I could only swing $100K not $150K+.

You're seriously trying to vehicle shame me for owning a 2022 BMW M340i? I love my M340i and I'm amazed and grateful my life has turned out such that I could buy it brand new. I'm a kid from a trailer park who had to work his ass off to get here. I'm very thankful for how my life has turned out, as should most of the people who post on this forum should be.

RAWHIDE IS GRITTY, FOLKS. In all seriousness, you know nothing of me and what work I've put in to be able to afford what I have now. And, frankly, it's none of your business and nothing I'm posting here. But props to you for getting out of the trailer park. Hope your monthly payment on that 340i doesn't come at the expense of other things.

That you wrap so much of your personal value around what is literally a corporate plastic emblem stuck on a car says more about you than you might care to realize.

I wrap personal value on a plastic emblem because it means something to me. 52 years of of Motorsport. Now they slap the badge on the trunk of your mid-range 3er.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by toddwalton

Every pure M car I've ever seen on the road is driven by the same overweight, bald 55 year old who just likes how it looks and never pushes it

Wait, the SAME bald 55 year old is driving all the pure M cars?! That’s amazing

[Roth517]

Originally Posted by BMW012

If that is your philosophy, your car is the most far away from a true "M", if you are so hardcore why did you get xdrive? and you drive a AUTOMATIC?? your are hilarious MR. HARDCORE M MOTORSPORT. Why are you even on this forum stay in your "M" forum. Also the real M3 ended with the NA V8. See how this conversation goes???

BMW placed an M on these cars, because they come with upgraded M parts. That's the bottom line. I have 523 hp with 553 TQ. More than your fake M4.

Wanted xDrive because it would be the quickest. Getting the Comp with xDrive meant I could only get the auto. But I also drive an automatic because a disability precludes me being physically able to drive a manual. (Hope you feel real good now!) I'm on this forum because this page was posted on the homepage, so I clicked and posted. What's your excuse 5 Series bro? And, actually, an argument could be made that best M3 was the E46 (NA inline 6), so that's why I have one of those in my garage, too. Yes, I see how this conversation goes because of people like you.

Congratulations on your 550i and its V8 horsepower. It's quick and luxurious. You should pat yourself on the back. You should also change your avatar because you're not driving a real ///M car. Go buy an M5 or GTFO.

[Rawhide]

Originally Posted by Roth517

RAWHIDE IS GRITTY, FOLKS. In all seriousness, you know nothing of me and what work I've put in to be able to afford what I have now. And, frankly, it's none of your business and nothing I'm posting here. But props to you for getting out of the trailer park. Hope your monthly payment on that 340i doesn't come at the expense of other things.

So you've had an easy life. Nothing to be ashamed of, I know lots of good people who were also born into their money.

Originally Posted by Roth517

I wrap personal value on a plastic emblem because it means something to me. 52 years of of Motorsport. Now they slap the badge on the trunk of your mid-range 3er.

Why? BMW doesn't even care and they own it. It doesn't matter and never did really. The people who know, know. No one else is even paying attention.
You're like an old man standing on the front porch yelling at passing kids. "Back in my day //M meat something dammit!"

[BMW012]

Originally Posted by Roth517

Wanted xDrive because it would be the quickest. Getting the Comp with xDrive meant I could only get the auto. But I also drive an automatic because a disability precludes me being physically able to drive a manual. (Hope you feel real good now!) I'm on this forum because this page was posted on the homepage, so I clicked and posted. What's your excuse 5 Series bro? And, actually, an argument could be made that best M3 was the E46 (NA inline 6), so that's why I have one of those in my garage, too. Yes, I see how this conversation goes because of people like you.

Congratulations on your 550i and its V8 horsepower. It's quick and luxurious. You should pat yourself on the back. You should also change your avatar because you're not driving a real ///M car. Go buy an M5 or GTFO.

Im on here because I am actually considering adding an m440i convertible.
Unlike, you who goes into a forum that you don't even like to be a one man army and stir trouble that didn't need to happen at all. hope you are proud of yourself.

[Dan B]

I am in the middle on the badge debate. I think having a M3xx or M4xx shows that it is not a "M" car. That is reserved for the M3/M4 etc..

The fact that they put the entire model number is the differentiator. Yes, the car has some M parts and sits between the standard model and the pure M car.

There is a BIG market for people, like myself, who would like and can afford a pure M car but wanted a car I don't worry about driving all year, including winter, and still wanted the better performance.

I would fee guilty driving an M car in the salt. I plan on moving to a winter free state and will buy a M car then.

[toddwalton]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

I think it’s more of an intellectual debate, but I feel more loved when I’m in a full-blown M performance car.

Precisely. The engine, the power, the suspension, I get it, it's awesome. The badges mean nothing, right?

[toddwalton]

Originally Posted by Roth517

Right, just for bragging rights. Not more horsepower and better brakes and suspension, carbon buckets, etc. for track days at Grattan, GingerMan, Mid-O, and Road America thus far. You're just salty because you couldn't afford an M3, bro.

You can't have it both ways.

It's either you are in it for the power, brakes, suspension, seats, at Grattan, GingerMan, Mid-O, and Road America.

-or-

You are in it for a stick-on badge.

Like we said, you know an M when you're in one. The sticky badge matters not.

[BMW012]

Originally Posted by Dan B

I am in the middle on the badge debate. I think having a M3xx or M4xx shows that it is not a "M" car. That is reserved for the M3/M4 etc..

The fact that they put the entire model number is the differentiator. Yes, the car has some M parts and sits between the standard model and the pure M car.

There is a BIG market for people, like myself, who would like and can afford a pure M car but wanted a car I don't worry about driving all year, including winter, and still wanted the better performance.

I would fee guilty driving an M car in the salt. I plan on moving to a winter free state and will buy a M car then.

precisely, for anyone who "actually" cares, they clearly know its a m440i and not a m4.

for the rest of the people, its just a bmw. regardless of what model or trim. "he drives a black bmw suv/sedan" lol. non car people dont care at all.

[toddwalton]

Originally Posted by Dan B

You must not be married?

Yeah, I knew I was stepping into that one. LOL

Let's put it this way- one shouldn't accept half a wife as a way of life. You either love the whole package, pluses and minuses taken into account, or you don't.

Back to BMW, one either loves the whole brand, pluses and minuses taken into account, or one doesn't. So if BMW decides a fender badge on a 330i and a trunklid badge on a 340i is ///M'ceptable, then it is.

[Roth517]

Originally Posted by BMW012

Im on here because I am actually considering adding an m440i convertible.
Unlike, you who goes into a forum that you don't even like to be a one man army and stir trouble that didn't need to happen at all. hope you are proud of yourself.

One man army? Mmmkay. I just said the ///M badges did not belong on the 440i, just like they don't below on your 550i. This isn't the first time it's been said and won't be the last.

[jmack123]

Originally Posted by Roth517

Petty? No, I value tradition and proper branding and badging within a car company I love. And I, for one, track (and have tracked) my cars. And paddocks during track days often have numerous proper ///M cars of various generations. Ever been to a track day?

I, like most M owners haven’t been to a track day. And I hate to break it to you but “your” “tradition” is nothing more than a pipedream.

The M division makes consumer products for track enthusiasts and soccer moms and dads alike. As much as you want to pretend, you aren’t a professional racecar driver. Get over it. It’s a mainstream consumer product company, not a religious or military institution beholden to “tradition”.

[Rawhide]

Originally Posted by jmack123

I, like most M owners haven’t been to a track day. And I hate to break it to you but “your” “tradition” is nothing more than a pipedream.

The M division makes consumer products for track enthusiasts and soccer moms and dads alike. As much as you want to pretend, you aren’t a professional racecar driver. Get over it. It’s a mainstream consumer product company, not a religious or military institution beholden to “tradition”.

Well stated. This whole //M thing reminds me of my bad weather and romper-stomper vehicle. There are Jeep old timers who absolutely despise my Jeep because it has 4 doors and "isn't a real Jeep". To the same degree our friend here raves about the sacredness of //M.

This isn't a Jeep community. Does anyone care? Would anyone say the below isn't a real Jeep? Of course not, you probably don't care and the whole argument seems a bit silly. Same applies to how the rest of the world sees the //M badge. Perspective is a good thing.

[Cruise'n]

Originally Posted by toddwalton

If dozens of Audi owners descended upon this forum telling you how ugly the 3 Series is week after week for 3+ years, I'd bet you'd feel offended too. Yet here we are, in a safe space for 3 and 4 Series enthusiasts, and we 4 Series owners are supposed to tolerate being dumped-on by our own kind?

No, sir. We are not. We share this forum.

A forum doesn't mean you can't view your option that doesn't match yours.
Many people liked my comment.
Many people don't like the grill.
Have I driven the new M3 on the track yes, and was a PERFECT track car, did I like the look of it NO. Did nearly all the people that day yes the Majority easy. All BMW fans and no Audi ones as you had to buy a new car to be there.
I used to have a manual 3 series just last year.
Why didn't I buy the new one, it's not a manual.
So I bought a V8 instead.
Never was my aim to insult you or others, but if people don't like a grill we sure are entitled to say it.