[bmnut]

Originally Posted by Charlie (Wessex)

My DSG in my Golf 7.5R was fine but sold with 32k on the clock. Cleaned the haldex yearly. First time at 14k it was horrendous.

English Charlie! What you mean? Can you explain?

[Charlie (Wessex)]

Originally Posted by bmnut

English Charlie! What you mean? Can you explain?

Here is a pic of the filter on the Haldex at just over 14k miles - https://vwroc.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws...146977c4a9.jpg

VW said, because it was a permanent filter I guess, that it was a non-service item. It really should be a standard service item, as there were problems with it blocking up and knackering the Haldex. Can't really recall, but I think maybe they did do it at the 30k or 40k service.

I did it at the next service (23k miles) and it was pretty clean, and IIRC that is not unusual - ie the first few thousand miles are the worst - but could be wrong there!

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Quote:
Warning Symbol!
The tire tread depth, tire rolling circumference as well as the tire manufacturer should be the same on the front and rear axles if possible, in order to ensure proper functioning of the xDrive. It is also recommended to use only tires that have been approved or recommended by BMW.

And it's BMW's use of the sort warning above which (IMO) causes confusion. On the one hand they say the rolling circumference should be the same front and rear if possible on an X-drive but at the same time they're sending out X-drive cars from the factory that aren't in accordance with their own advice....

Unless of course not all X-drive cars are the same with some able to tolerate a modest difference in rolling circumference front:rear while others aren't? But if that's the case how do you know which you've got - do you just assume that if there's no warning in your handbook the guidance for having the same rolling circumference front:rear doesn't apply?

[bmnut]

Originally Posted by Charlie (Wessex)

Here is a pic of the filter on the Haldex at just over 14k miles - https://vwroc.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws...146977c4a9.jpg

VW said, because it was a permanent filter I guess, that it was a non-service item. It really should be a standard service item, as there were problems with it blocking up and knackering the Haldex. Can't really recall, but I think maybe they did do it at the 30k or 40k service.

I did it at the next service (23k miles) and it was pretty clean, and IIRC that is not unusual - ie the first few thousand miles are the worst - but could be wrong there!

Whoa!….Looks like you’ve just stuck a magnet in a bucket of ball bearings! Pleased I don’t own anything with a Haldex drive.
I’m quietly confident that my BMW (or yours for that matter) won’t have anything like that problem.
Just waiting for further information from HP now!

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by JNW1

Unless of course not all X-drive cars are the same with some able to tolerate a modest difference in rolling circumference front:rear while others aren't? But if that's the case how do you know which you've got - do you just assume that if there's no warning in your handbook the guidance for having the same rolling circumference front:rear doesn't apply?

It is possible they are not all the same in a model range. As posted, it appears some G-series examples are running software which uses xDrive capability less than we can read applies to other models.

What are the tyre warning notes in your User Manual? All those I read have some warnings. (The triangle with the exclamation mark).

[xenon]

Haldex was crap - but that ain’t Quattro, even if it was badged as such on the A3 and Golf (4 motion). The DSG issues are a different kettle of piscine

[4monks]

To be fair, for the money, Haldex was fairly decent, but clearly had limitations as it was AWD on a budget.

[xenon]

Originally Posted by 4monks

To be fair, for the money, Haldex was fairly decent, but clearly had limitations as it was AWD on a budget.

Yes true. I was a little harsh.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by bmnut

I’m quietly confident that my BMW (or yours for that matter) won’t have anything like that problem.
Just waiting for further information from HP now!

Appears the M440i has the latest revisions to M-Lite xDrive function, like the M240i. From the BMW Press Release;

The latest version of the system goes about the task of ensuring rapid, precise and fully variable distribution of drive torque between the front and rear wheels in an exceptionally efficient manner. In driving situations where all-wheel drive is not needed, all the power is directed to the rear wheels.

That translates to running with the clutch pack open much more of the time.

[bmnut]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Appears the M440i has the latest revisions to M-Lite xDrive function, like the M240i. From the BMW Press Release;



That translates to running with the clutch pack open much more of the time.

Thanks Pete for all your continuing research, it’s much appreciated.
I’m assuming that this latest version of xDrive has greater longevity being a more sophisticated design with improved heat management as well?

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

It is possible they are not all the same in a model range. As posted, it appears some G-series examples are running software which uses xDrive capability less than we can read applies to other models.

What are the tyre warning notes in your User Manual? All those I read have some warnings. (The triangle with the exclamation mark).

In my handbook there's the reference to using recommended tyres (i.e. star marked) and there's also a warning to not mix brands and tread patterns as that can upset things like the ABS and DSC. However, there's nothing specific I can see about needing to have tyres with the same rolling circumference front to rear if your car's X-drive.

The tyres I saw on the M440i GC last week were star marked but, because they were also a different rolling circumference front to rear, personally I'd be reluctant to fit them to my car; however, is that right or am I being over cautious? And conversely, as I've said before I'd be relatively comfortable fitting tyres with notionally identical or almost identical rolling circumferences from a premium brand manufacturer even if they weren't star marked.

Strange old world BMW has created!

[Charlie (Wessex)]

So BMW recommends this and that. Do we all only ever fill up follwing their advice? "BMW M recommends Shell Quality Fuels". I personally do prefer Shell, but more than happy with most fuels.

The handbook also talks about M Performance engines running optimally on 98 RON, but behing the filler cap, where BMW M states the bit about Shell, there's a sticker with RON 95 (min 91) and E5/E10/E25 labels.

Seems rather typical of BMW's recommendations, that they contradict themselves. Or rather while they make recommendations, the car will work perfectly well if you don't follow them (but obviously don't do anything silly).

[bmnut]

Originally Posted by Charlie (Wessex)

So BMW recommends this and that. Do we all only ever fill up follwing their advice? "BMW M recommends Shell Quality Fuels". I personally do prefer Shell, but more than happy with most fuels.

The handbook also talks about M Performance engines running optimally on 98 RON, but behing the filler cap, where BMW M states the bit about Shell, there's a sticker with RON 95 (min 91) and E5/E10/E25 labels.

Seems rather typical of BMW's recommendations, that they contradict themselves. Or rather while they make recommendations, the car will work perfectly well if you don't follow them (but obviously don't do anything silly).

I think the main point is 'BMW recommends' which doesn't effectively rule out personal preference. Most of the time it matters not what choices we make it only comes into question when we start to talk about warranty claims and then BMW are like all other companies in trying to find a 'loophole' to evade responsibility and the subsequent financial impact that has so we pick up the bill rather than them!

[Keith_C]

But again, I reiterate, I have never seen any evidence of BMW refusing a claim based on using non star marked tyres.

This thread can go on and on and on talking about ifs, buts and maybes, but you're not going to get a definite answer off anyone at BMW as one dealer could contradict another so we're back to where we are.

There is nothing in any drivers manual I have had where it states you must use a star marked tyre, everything is recommended, that says it all.

As long as you stick to standard sizes and a decent brand (even that's debatable), you should not have any trouble when it comes to warranty claims.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by bmnut

Thanks Pete for all your continuing research, it’s much appreciated.
I’m assuming that this latest version of xDrive has greater longevity being a more sophisticated design with improved heat management as well?

Without part numbers it is difficult to where where all the changes apply.

What is certain, it has a version of the ATC13-1 VTG (transfer box), which includes; Reduction in the thermal load by over-opening of the all-wheel drive multidisc clutches. Reduced fuel consumption by intelligent all-wheel drive control and demand-based oil level control in the transfer box (Efficiency Mode).

Whether the very latest improvements as in the M3/4 VTG, will filter down into all the xDrive VTG units, only time and more information will give the full picture.

[bmnut]

Originally Posted by Keith_C

But again, I reiterate, I have never seen any evidence of BMW refusing a claim based on using non star marked tyres.

This thread can go on and on and on talking about ifs, buts and maybes, but you're not going to get a definite answer off anyone at BMW as one dealer could contradict another so we're back to where we are.

There is nothing in any drivers manual I have had where it states you must use a star marked tyre, everything is recommended, that says it all.

As long as you stick to standard sizes and a decent brand (even that's debatable), you should not have any trouble when it comes to warranty claims.

Absolutely Keith. I agree with your comments about how long we can all debate this subject and I think it's another thread that has ran it's course now, we'll all make our own informed decisions from here onwards. It's good that we can all debate these issues in a civilised manner on the forum and raise levels of awareness which were hitherto hidden from others!
My fault..... with my last post it was more about costs arising from potential problems with transfer boxes, I should have made that clearer!

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Keith_C

But again, I reiterate, I have never seen any evidence of BMW refusing a claim based on using non star marked tyres.

This thread can go on and on and on talking about ifs, buts and maybes, but you're not going to get a definite answer off anyone at BMW as one dealer could contradict another so we're back to where we are.

There is nothing in any drivers manual I have had where it states you must use a star marked tyre, everything is recommended, that says it all.

As long as you stick to standard sizes and a decent brand (even that's debatable), you should not have any trouble when it comes to warranty claims.

When we talk of the warranty issue, are we talking about the current generation of xDrive vehicles, or through time? The Warranty has certainly been challenged in the past.

It is really about risk isn't it? And if we want to 'test' the warranty system, if we do have an issue.

What does appear to be the case, BMW are improving the VTG units and this possibly allows 'relaxing' of the tyre requirement.

[bmnut]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

When we talk of the warranty issue, are we talking about the current generation of xDrive vehicles, or through time? The Warranty has certainly been challenged in the past.

It is really about risk isn't it? And if we want to 'test' the warranty system, if we do have an issue.

What does appear to be the case, BMW are improving the VTG units and this possibly allows 'relaxing' of the tyre requirement.

That all makes perfect sense to me!

[Charlie (Wessex)]

Anyway, just something that made me wryly smile....

https://usedcars.bmw.co.uk/vehicle/2...0-fb829923f24d with a nice pic of a non-starred tyre

https://m.atcdn.co.uk/a/media/w960/7...79aeb590d0.jpg

[bmnut]

Originally Posted by Charlie (Wessex)

Anyway, just something that made me wryly smile....

https://usedcars.bmw.co.uk/vehicle/2...0-fb829923f24d with a nice pic of a non-starred tyre

https://m.atcdn.co.uk/a/media/w960/7...79aeb590d0.jpg

love it!

[Dave_3]

Originally Posted by Charlie (Wessex)

So BMW recommends this and that. Do we all only ever fill up follwing their advice? "BMW M recommends Shell Quality Fuels". I personally do prefer Shell, but more than happy with most fuels.

In the manual for my F32 430D it recommended BP fuels. My 435D (LCI) recommended Shell in the manual. My 440D has an electronic manual that recommends Shell.

Would be very interesting to know which fuel they actually fill up the test mules/cars with. Do they have their own fuel supply at the Nürburgring? Or just pop around the corner to the nearest filling station?

D.

[Keith_C]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

When we talk of the warranty issue, are we talking about the current generation of xDrive vehicles, or through time? The Warranty has certainly been challenged in the past.

It is really about risk isn't it? And if we want to 'test' the warranty system, if we do have an issue.

What does appear to be the case, BMW are improving the VTG units and this possibly allows 'relaxing' of the tyre requirement.

Without doubt, but was that concerning star marked tyres or running non standard tyres? As I say, I'm not aware of anyone refused warranty because the tyres were not star marked and why should they because nowhere in the owners manuals that I have had does it state that star marked tyres MUST be used, it's just recommended.

I also appreciate the technical knowledge, we never stop learning, every day is a school day and I'm not critical of that, may I just add, it's all good to know.

At the end of the day, you pays your money and takes your choice.