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2018 BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS General G80 M3 Sedan Forum (2019+) Next Gen BMW M3 G80 prototype breaks cover!

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      12-18-2017, 08:58 PM   #221
Dylan86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
The new M5 just topped 103k as it's base price.

The current X5M is 100,700 and the X6M is 104,100.

The X3 m40 is priced at $54.300 and slots below the upcoming X3M.

Sounds like a hole in the lineup big enough for an X3M and an X4M doesn't it. ?
Sure does. I made the mistake of assuming this was a change from the previous read, I had, of the new X3-M40 (the M variant)to be equipped with the B58. The X3M, if equipped as mentioned, would be an M car, no doubt
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      12-18-2017, 09:15 PM   #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
Actually the real reason is: rules and regulations. AWD is not allowed in those classes, as simple as that. And xDrive only adds around 185 lbs of weight, not as bad as you think.

AWD always helps when you have lots more power than grip - look at WRC, Rallycross. That is not the case with an M3 just yet, but if it had 600BHP perhaps it too would need AWD to make it work well.
You are comparing the wrong sport.

Regulations are usually there to keep the cost under control, as most indy teams would have no chance to compete against factory teams in that sense.

Furthermore, rallies are based on deep tread tyres with less than optimal road surface conditions and slippery off roads where AWD benefits generally outweigh lighter drivetrain of RWD or FWD.

For endurance races where all of them are held on circuits with smooth surface, however, 50kg weight addition to the drivetrain will cost on back straights and hugely hurt cornering capabilities. Remember these vehicles gave an arm and a leg to get the weight down to 1200kg (e.g. Bentley continental GT.); for them it is better thus to focus on aerodynamics and mechanical grip using widest tyres and track width of suspension within the regulations. Not to mention significantly more fuel used in the long run. Professionals manage traction by their driving skills, not by car's traction control and gimmicks.

Now if you want to put priority on practicality AWD was and is always the answer since audi quattro proved that in German winters. I believe M3's target back in the 90s and early 00s was making Ferrari and porsche equivalents, but the brand has since diluted to follow Mercedes examples.
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      12-18-2017, 09:18 PM   #223
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Anybody notice the floating rear calipers?
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      12-18-2017, 11:07 PM   #224
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I believe M3's target back in the 90s and early 00s was making Ferrari and porsche equivalents, but the brand has since diluted to follow Mercedes examples.
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      12-19-2017, 12:33 AM   #225
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Rofl when i read som of the comments crying about making the car even wider damn if you look at the pictures where the original body is of the car and the arches begins it looks plenty wide to me...Cant wait until it starts dropping some camo to see how it is turning out, hope to see some people doing renderings soon based on this.



Or do some people want their M cars to look like this or what,

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      12-19-2017, 01:36 AM   #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan86 View Post
Are you suggesting that the X3M is built to contend with a GLC 63s, Macan Turbo, though? I can't see that being BMW's focus, here..
Yes, that is exactly the focus. I think you figured out you were mixing up the M performance with X3M.

M Performance = B58
X3M = S58

Whatever they do with X5/6M will have nothing to do with X3/4M since as someone pointed out, they're at different price points no one would really cross shop them.
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      12-19-2017, 02:20 AM   #227
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Looks weird to me.. but this isn't the final version I'm sure.
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      12-19-2017, 05:58 AM   #228
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Sorry guys I don't see anything new and exciting here. I was hoping to see more aggressive exterior styling.

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      12-19-2017, 07:26 AM   #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCG View Post
Sorry guys I don't see anything new and exciting here. I was hoping to see more aggressive exterior styling.

Well, it's still wearing a lot of camo, especially on the front. And since it's a few years away, the expectation of seeing more aggressive exterior styling, shouldn't really be an expectation. But, take a look at the width of the front end, and the front fenders and how they are flared.
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      12-19-2017, 08:14 AM   #230
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What is the reason they have gone back to a sliding rear caliper vs solid ones on the current car? If it is an e-brake issue, how were they able to overcome that on the current car?
Quote:
Originally Posted by IS3andME View Post
Anybody notice the floating rear calipers?
Yup, this means electronic parking brakes for all! If so that sucks, I love the look of the current M performance calipers, front and rear. Hate the look of a dinky floating caliper, especially when you have a huge 6 piston caliper up front (I'm looking at you new M5).
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      12-19-2017, 08:29 AM   #231
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No manuel parking brakes? Oh no how will I initiate a dorifto without it. Ahhhh.
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      12-19-2017, 08:39 AM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan86 View Post
B58, agree 100%, S58 "across 3/4/x3/x4" I can't say I've ever seen such a thing.
Although it is clear now that you were confusing M vehicles with series vehicles, it is worth commenting with regard to the above. While it is true that BMW has not done this - shared M engines with non-M vehicles (Z8 being the only exception I'm aware of, and that vehicle was largely developed by M Division I believe) - there are actually opportunities in this area that they could choose to exploit in the future. As I mentioned earlier, VAG is already sharing their high output 6 cylinder - in their case, the 2.9L TT V6 - across multiple products. In the lower segments the engine is the top of the line, high performance offering. However, in the more premium segments, it is simply the mid-range engine. Mercedes is about to do the same thing with their brand new M256 inline six cylinder.

BMW could choose to do this in the future with the S58. Not for the non-M 3/4/X3/X4/Z4, no, but in the larger M Performance vehicles it actually could happen at some point. I'm not saying that they will go this route, but as I said in my earlier post, turbocharged engines are versatile. And since specs are often king, it wouldn't necessarily be an unattractive proposition to use a ~500hp S58 instead of a ~450hp N63 in some applications. Sure, they could tune the N63 to 500hp instead (and indeed they probably will do that too soon), but at some point the lighter and potentially more efficient six cylinder starts to become the better choice to meet market demands. So what I am saying is, don't rule out seeing the S58 or something similar (a twin turbo inline six making up to 500hp) in the 5/6/7/8/X5/X6/X7/X8 in the future.
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      12-19-2017, 08:46 AM   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InspireSiR View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan86 View Post
Are you suggesting that the X3M is built to contend with a GLC 63s, Macan Turbo, though? I can't see that being BMW's focus, here..
Yes, that is exactly the focus. I think you figured out you were mixing up the M performance with X3M.

M Performance = B58
X3M = S58

Whatever they do with X5/6M will have nothing to do with X3/4M since as someone pointed out, they're at different price points no one would really cross shop them.
Some cross shop the X3M & X5M.

We currently are, when they are released. Wife wants something smaller the her F15, but... if the new X5M is sick as shit.. she'll get that. If not worth the extra 50k, she'll pick up the X3M when it's released.
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      12-19-2017, 09:33 AM   #234
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The entire car is covered with screwed on panels including both front and rear fenders.
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      12-19-2017, 09:50 AM   #235
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I am in favor of vomit 100%
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      12-19-2017, 09:53 AM   #236
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Yes that is clear and obvious.

Those front fenders are like playing cards tacked on.

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Originally Posted by SoCali E36 View Post
The entire car is covered with screwed on panels including both front and rear fenders.
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      12-19-2017, 10:00 AM   #237
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this thing is a bloated whale. try again after trimming down.
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      12-19-2017, 10:49 AM   #238
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Rear tires don't look much wider than the front...this could be awd!
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      12-19-2017, 10:58 AM   #239
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Floating rear caliper.. uh-oh..
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      12-19-2017, 11:02 AM   #240
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Or Winters...

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Rear tires don't look much wider than the front...this could be awd!
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      12-19-2017, 11:08 AM   #241
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I'm glad they addressed the ride height for this platform
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      12-19-2017, 11:14 AM   #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukr View Post
Rear tires don't look much wider than the front...this could be awd!
Possible, yes (assuming these are representative of the production tires).

However, it is important to remember that the difference between the width of the front and rear tires is 20mm for the F80 M3 (non-ZCP), while the difference between the width of the front and rear tires is 10mm for the F90 M5. So, there is only 10mm distinguishing the amount of stagger between the RWD and AWD car. It is unlikely these spy pictures would allow us to determine which of the two cases applies to this G80 mule.
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