[monte03carlo]

"First thing and this is for me the most important thing; you can drive fast and completely relaxed. You don't feel how fast you are."

To me this is what i missed about my E90 vs my F30. The E90 felt fast and much more soulful than my current F30.

[Bluesummer]

If he got the first thing wrong to the root, how can he possibly fix anything?

"Drive fast and relax and feel not going fast"

Wtf is this? The core of the complaints isn't the car not going fast enough. In fact, it's the completely opposite of that. When I'm going fast, I want to know I'm going fast. If One wanted to feel isolated while cruising at 90mph, that person could easily pick hundreds of other options available.

Someone please fire this guy

[scrammer]

Time to get back to the glory of the 3er ... 2013 was the end of a 22 year run in the Top 10 and yes, these ratings do sell cars and help build brands with consumers.

[am3r1ka]

Originally Posted by monte03carlo

"First thing and this is for me the most important thing; you can drive fast and completely relaxed. You don't feel how fast you are."

To me this is what i missed about my E90 vs my F30. The E90 felt fast and much more soulful than my current F30.

Honestly, I sometimes forget how fast I'm going by how smooth it is. They should've took a page out of Porsche's handbook and instead of trying to reinvent the e90 to f30, they should've just perfected what was already loved. I'm guessing that's what they're attempting to do with the g20 as it really looks like a sleeker f30 imo.

[sq86]

He's missing the point. It baffles me. People look to the E46 generation, in particular the M3 CSL as that was the halo car of that generation, as the best 3 because it had a NA in-line 6, hydraulic steering that was communicative, and didn't feel lifeless.

Don't get me wrong I own an E92 because I wanted something newer but I still miss my E46. The E92 still had a NA in-line 6 and the hydraulic steering but it feels less "alive" than the E46 was. That is the missing factor. How do you describe it in words is more difficult, for sure. Maybe each generation is more compliant, softer, requires less of you as a driver. I don't own a F30 generation because I hate the steering and the engines. Sure they make more power and are more efficient but they also aren't as fun to rev out as the older generations. The chassis is stiffer but I haven't driven one that has an enjoyable suspension setup. They're all too soft. I'll get past these things eventually as that's progress but it's still something I'm putting off until I have to. I'll always hold a special place for the E46 as I'm sure many of us will. Hopefully this G20 will capture that same essence. End of rant.

[am3r1ka]

Originally Posted by Bluesummer

If he got the first thing wrong to the root, how can he possibly fix anything?

"Drive fast and relax and feel not going fast"

Wtf is this? The core of the complaints isn't the car not going fast enough. In fact, it's the completely opposite of that. When I'm going fast, I want to know I'm going fast. If One wanted to feel isolated while cruising at 90mph, that person could easily pick hundreds of other options available.

Someone please fire this guy

I think that statement was intended for the autobahners

[Blubaron79]

I love this.

[upsidedownfunnel]

Originally Posted by insanecoder

the F30 has eDiff
the F30 is already one of the stiffest cars on the market
the F30 isn't perfect as it tries to cater to too many
but nothings really changed as far as that for the G20
when you make car stiffer something has to give
and if it still has runflats w/stiff sidewalls where the shocks gonna go
all of the shock need to be translated somewhere and damped else you have a lot of unhappy ordinary drivers
it has magic dampers supposedly which fall short of magnetic
the driving aspect will become more clear as more reviews come online

I am just railing on the visuals mostly
the more I look at the grill the more I am putoff
the bottom rear also looks a bit off
imo of course

When I say eDiff, I mean a real electronically controlled mechanical LSD, not brake based torque vectoring. Currently only the F80 M3/M4 has an eDiff and there is no mechanical LSD option at all for the F30 except for a WAY too expensive M Performance option.

A stiffer chassis is always better. That allows you to tune the suspension more accurately. And tires are easy enough to change out that they're almost a non factor. It also makes the car feel much more solid and premium. It's a major part of the difference between a luxury car and economy car.

Styling is subjective so I understand if you don't like the styling. IMO, I think the styling is a good evolution of the 3 series. I usually reserve judgement until I see a car in person.

[bimmerfile]

Originally Posted by c63er

This all falls into the category of squeezing water from a rock.

The reason bmw critics and criticisms keep increasing?

Because of statements just like this.

This is not the first time people from bmw have talked like this. And in the past it has all been hype, which generates cynicism. More hype more cynicism. The chief culprit of all this is our own Scott here on the forum who makes grand statements, which rarely come true.

The last 2 bmw m chiefs have promised more fun to drive cars and we have been left with more M logos, more wings, more vents and more pastel colors designed for a 3 year olds taste. But more fun? Hardly.

If BMW wants to impress us with the 3 series. Then it's simple. Shut up and make the car dynamic again. Most of us remember the glory days vividly, so we k ow what's possible.

Simply telling us it's the best car ever made does nothing for many of us. And your critics will only grow if this is yet another stupid PR excercise.

Frohlich has been at BMW during the glory days so he should know what we like. Let's see if he did this right or if this is a PR stunt, if the latter.... more critics will mount.

Ummm, yah, but it's called the 2-series.

[Germanauto]

I don't think any objective human being can deny that the F30 did not feel AT ALL like a 3-series. Same goes for the F10 5-series which was a complete disappointment and the G30 doesn't seem to be much better.

The criticism is warranted. Put up or shut up with the G20, otherwise I'm taking my business to Alfa Romeo or Porsche.

[Bluesummer]

Originally Posted by am3r1ka

I think that statement was intended for the autobahners

I know it's hard to please every buyer in different countries but I think he was trying to shift the focus on the pinpointed arguments; the trunkline looks like a Lexus.

[Tornado1M]

Originally Posted by pheerIx

"I do not want to hear that shit anymore."

That's just so fucking funny to me 🤣

[Big boi m5]

All the talk about the e46 driving dynamics. You think you want it, but you dont.

Proof? GM literally reverse engineered it with the Cadillac ATS line and it's a massive failure.

Meanwhile the Current 3 series outsold it massively.

People want big fat smooth drivers, not dynamic fun ones.

The 3 G20 is bigger than a 5 series used to be. Let that sink in on how fun it will be to drive.

The 2 series 4 door will be a mini, so don't think the spirit of the 3 lives on there.

BMW wants mainstream sales and mainstream sales are driven by cabin space and tech not driving dynamics. All BMWs modern moves are aimed at expanding sales to new drivers. They assume we will be loyal and buy the new cars even if they share little with previous ones.

X1, X2, 1 series, 2 series (coupe exception) are FWD cars to lure in younger poor people. The 5, 6, 7, 8 are Luxury cars not sporty at all. No sporty car weighs 4kg, idc what badge they put on it. You could take an M5 to the track but you'll burn pads every 2 sessions if you actually drove it. It's good only for the stats page in a magazine, which will attract dumb people with money who want to show off. The 8 is being turned into an 'ultra luxury' line for Saudi oil princes.

My 135i is bigger than an e46 M3 yet the website says the 2 series (formerly 1 under old nomenclature) is the successor to the 2002.

I don't blame the M division either. They have to work with what BMW gives them.

BMW became cool because of dynamics but now they want sales growth and that means A Camry.

The M division gets to work with pigfat.

Your future M cars are mostly just milking the brand at this point.

The M3 currently has no connection to Motorsport at all which was the whole point of M cars. The M8 does but like I said earlier, the M8 GT car weighs 2k lbs. your street version will be double that.

The M brand is essentially dead in spirit. The 3 series is massive and has no connection to a race car at all. Remember when the old 8 series was developed by M and had its own M engine and all but ultimately they rejected it because it was too big to meet the performance expectations of an M car? Hilarious when you look at the leaderships philosophy now. M badge just means extra money to them.

You have to wonder why we even bother at all with BMW? I know why Stacey is leasing her 328i grocery getter. Makes perfect sense for her. I know why Chun Lee the exchange student from China is leasing his M5. Perfect car to show off your wealth.

I also know why I've never seen a modern M5 at a BMW track event.

[c63er]

Originally Posted by bimmerfile

Ummm, yah, but it's called the 2-series.

The 2 series is certainly a little more fun then the 3 series right now, but it does suffer many of the same underlying problems as the 3.

Regardless, the true and original magic of the 3 was that it was able to infuse the fun of a sports car into a small 4 door sedan.

To me personally, every bmw has fallen off the map in regards to that BMW magic as soon as they moved to platform sharing architecture.

I understand that platforms and platform sharing is a requisite for these companies to keep their astronomically high profits, but they also rob the cars of the essential elements of focus needed to make a truly great car.

There was a time when BMW was proud that it spent reportedly 1 billion to develop, engineer and produce the e46.

Why spend that much on a single series when you can spend a fraction of that on developing 10 cars. Or better yet split the cost with Toyota and both companies can make cars.

Combine that toxic (from an enthusiast point of view) thinking with shared electric steering, braking, dampening systems and well....

That is why BMW isn't BMW anymore in my opinion.

It's no wonder so many people, even without understanding the details in car development and manufacturing know something is wrong and have been heading to smaller more tailored solutions such as Porsche, Ferrari, etc..

Bmw could grow a pair and invest heavily into making a top notch car, or continue as is and make a platform car meant to appeal to eastern markets and PR us ad nauseum and hope we buy it too. Seems to be working.

Who knows maybee BMW infused this new car with magic. But the cynics are out, rightfully so, and having senseless hype out there should raise the alarm bells for all of us. If it's a good product, it will speak for itself. I was around the day the e46 was released and there was almost no hype. It's legend was built by us.

[BimmerMat135]

Now I'm waiting his answer for the ones with a F31 that would like to upgrade to a better driving 3 serie wagon? And no i don't want a X3.

[JRobUSC]

Originally Posted by scrammer

Time to get back to the glory of the 3er

You know what’s the most ironic thing here? That 10Best list the 3-series is on? It’s from 2013. That was the F30, the same F30 everyone raved about when it was released and hates five years later.

Revisionist history? BMW stopped buying ads in car magazines? Who knows. But it’s always struck me as funny how a car everyone gushed about in 2011, 2012 and 2013 suddenly became the poster child for everything wrong with BMW.

I have a 2016 340xi w/ track pack. I’ve had two E90’s, three E46’s, and an E36. This 340 is by far the best of the bunch.

[JunkStory]

and yet, the car is longer, wider, and sits higher than the f30. Probably going to he heavier when people start weighing it. Also no manual transmission option. Yea.. i'm sure they listened to all the critics

[CJ2018]

FIX THE STEERING FEEL not how speeding feels.....Nuf said.......

[rjd598]

This forum has really gotten sad and pathetic

[BMV///M3]

Just because it's supposed to be great might not justify the leasing figures. I for one would not pay $800 a month for a 3 series

[rjd598]

Originally Posted by BMV///M3

Just because it's supposed to be great might not justify the leasing figures. I for one would not pay $800 a month for a 3 series

who said it will be $800/month?

[440xiGCMSport2]

All they need to do to improve handling considerably is get rid of the runflats and put in a proper rack that allows more feedback and get rid of the dead center spot in the steering.
Runflats will limit the suspension engineers.