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      06-18-2019, 09:27 AM   #1
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NY Ok's Driver's Licenses for Illegal immigrants

Please, please tell me how democrats can support this? Legit question. I would love to hear opinions from the left as to how this benefits our country.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...illegally.html
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      06-18-2019, 09:32 AM   #2
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      06-18-2019, 09:43 AM   #3
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The DMV is just as bad. You dont even have to know how to read English to drive. How does that make people good drivers.
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      06-18-2019, 09:45 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonbat View Post
Interesting article. Not sure I agree with everything, but some good points.

What is concerning is this further deters immigrants from trying to become citizens. If they can get a license, why go through all the testing and paying taxes? Call me cynical, but I only see Dems using this as platform for more voters. How can anyone not be in favor of coming to this country legally and becoming citizens? I have no problem with the people going through that process.
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      06-18-2019, 09:59 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haywood View Post
Interesting article. Not sure I agree with everything, but some good points.

What is concerning is this further deters immigrants from trying to become citizens. If they can get a license, why go through all the testing and paying taxes? Call me cynical, but I only see Dems using this as platform for more voters. How can anyone not be in favor of coming to this country legally and becoming citizens? I have no problem with the people going through that process.
That's one of the points in the article. Lefties and Righties have to put country first and put forth some real comprehensive immigration reform. Congress right now reminds me of toddlers in the back seat: "He touched me!" "Yabbut she was over the line!!"

I doubt there will be a path for the undocumented to vote anytime soon. And they are paying billions into social security and other taxes that they'll never to get a benefit from. But their presence does put a downward pressure on wages and health / safety issues in the workplace.

I agree it's a nuanced issue that needs to be confronted and not converted into sound bites to win elections. Would USA save money by supporting Guatemala to recover? Would that cost us less than a wall and all the detention officers to handle the rush of asylum seekers? More importantly why hasn't any politician laid out all those costs, as well as the moral arguments, to come up with something that can get through all our branches of government? Pretty disgusting that they'd rather just let issues like this and crumbling infrastructure continue to fester.
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      06-18-2019, 10:03 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonbat View Post
That's one of the points in the article. Lefties and Righties have to put country first and put forth some real comprehensive immigration reform. Congress right now reminds me of toddlers in the back seat: "He touched me!" "Yabbut she was over the line!!"

I doubt there will be a path for the undocumented to vote anytime soon. And they are paying billions into social security and other taxes that they'll never to get a benefit from. But their presence does put a downward pressure on wages and health / safety issues in the workplace.

I agree it's a nuanced issue that needs to be confronted and not converted into sound bites to win elections. Would USA save money by supporting Guatemala to recover? Would that cost us less than a wall and all the detention officers to handle the rush of asylum seekers? More importantly why hasn't any politician laid out all those costs, as well as the moral arguments, to come up with something that can get through all our branches of government? Pretty disgusting that they'd rather just let issues like this and crumbling infrastructure continue to fester.
Illegal immigrant ≠ Immigrant

I have no problem allowing plenty of skilled workers into the United States through legal channels where they can be evaluated for criminal records, terrorist ties, job skills, employment prospects, net worth, health concerns, etc. If they pass all the tests and can benefit the USA, then let them in asap.

It's those skipping the line and just walking in unchecked that is the problem. Things like this NY license debacle just exasperate the problem and encourage this behavior.

Our legal immigration system is broken and desperately needs repair, but that doesn't mean breaking the law is the right answer.
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      06-18-2019, 10:27 AM   #7
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This boggles the mind. If you're in the country illegally shouldn't the government be actively trying to address the illegal part either by removal or detention to determine status? So my other question is and maybe a stupid one but isn't a drivers licence the type of ID you require to purchase firearms?
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      06-18-2019, 10:32 AM   #8
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(https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/exacerbate)

Mixed feelings. Back on the NY driver license thing... I had a truck I was driving totalled and was nearly killed when some undocumented folks in a large heavy vehicle turned left into me in an intersection (they had a green light, but not a green arrow, sign said left turn on arrow only). The officer said they were no english / no insurance... and all I could do is file an uninsured motorist claim to get some money for the dead truck. Had they been trained on traffic laws and stoplight characteristics around here (in the process of getting a state driver's license) could that have been avoided?

And right now doesn't it take 10-20 years to become a citizen? Why not 10-20 days? And aren't there low limits on how many citizenship or even green cards are granted each year? Would a better immigration system prevent so many folks blowing off the legal pathway?

I agree about line jumpers in general though... they're the worst. But there's a lot of legitimate asylum seekers mixed in with the people just being told by their waaay too pricey immigration lawyers how to claim asylum without real need. And granting asylum is current USA law.

Do you deport a DACA kid in medical school who has been in the USA since the age of two, who only speaks English? Do you break up families by deporting only half of the millions of line jumpers?

It's complicated, and yup, in desperate need of repair.
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      06-18-2019, 10:33 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
This boggles the mind. If you're in the country illegally shouldn't the government be actively trying to address the illegal part either by removal or detention to determine status? So my other question is and maybe a stupid one but isn't a drivers licence the type of ID you require to purchase firearms?
Do you think they are putting restrictions on it? Like cant buy firearms, in the country illegally, cant speak or read English.

Like you said this is insane

I watched a video about how states/cities are communicating with each other on when they can move around illegals because their city can no longer support them.
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      06-18-2019, 10:40 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
This boggles the mind. If you're in the country illegally shouldn't the government be actively trying to address the illegal part either by removal or detention to determine status? So my other question is and maybe a stupid one but isn't a drivers licence the type of ID you require to purchase firearms?
someones gotta vote for the other side lol...i remember now when I was 16 that I stopped giving a shit about politics. The level of fucked is not commprehensible
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      06-18-2019, 10:47 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonbat View Post
(https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/exacerbate)

Mixed feelings. Back on the NY driver license thing... I had a truck I was driving totalled and was nearly killed when some undocumented folks in a large heavy vehicle turned left into me in an intersection (they had a green light, but not a green arrow, sign said left turn on arrow only). The officer said they were no english / no insurance... and all I could do is file an uninsured motorist claim to get some money for the dead truck. Had they been trained on traffic laws and stoplight characteristics around here (in the process of getting a state driver's license) could that have been avoided?

And right now doesn't it take 10-20 years to become a citizen? Why not 10-20 days? And aren't there low limits on how many citizenship or even green cards are granted each year? Would a better immigration system prevent so many folks blowing off the legal pathway?

I agree about line jumpers in general though... they're the worst. But there's a lot of legitimate asylum seekers mixed in with the people just being told by their waaay too pricey immigration lawyers how to claim asylum without real need. And granting asylum is current USA law.

Do you deport a DACA kid in medical school who has been in the USA since the age of two, who only speaks English? Do you break up families by deporting only half of the millions of line jumpers?

It's complicated, and yup, in desperate need of repair.
My wife is an immigrant and working towards her citizenship. It takes about 3 years to become a citizen after your green card.

Yes, the system is broken and needs repair. No, breaking the current law is not the solution.

1) Stop people from coming into this country without being investigated through (a) proper border control and proper policing of visa overstays along with (b) reducing the pull by cracking down on employers who employ those not legally allowed to work or stay in this country.

2) Revamp our immigration system to allow those the country needs to enter versus allowing those who need us to enter. This is a major problem. We allow too many in that will not contribute to society yet prohibit those who do. My cousin in law has a bachelor degree in advanced childhood education and a masters in special needs education with 2 decades of experience. She is a dual citizen of South Africa and the UK. All she wants to do is come to the USA. She has applied for many positions as nothing more than a basic public school teachers, specifically in areas that are in dire need. None will accept her and all say that current regulations will not allow them to sponsor someone from out of the country. This is stupid.

3) Once the system is corrected and the inflow is curtailed, then develop a system that allows those already here to stay legally. They must get background checks, et al and they have to register for a legal SSN.

4) Anyone who still resides in this country illegally and does not accept the amnesty should be harshly punished and permanently banned from ever entering again.

It's not that hard.
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      06-18-2019, 11:06 AM   #12
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You should run for office. Have you ever considered it?
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      06-18-2019, 11:09 AM   #13
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So now we have Cali and NY covered. When the rest of you going to get on board???

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      06-18-2019, 11:14 AM   #14
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Just madness.
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      06-18-2019, 11:15 AM   #15
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Nothing we can do to stop things like this from happening as long as people keep voting these people into office.
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      06-18-2019, 11:24 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
My wife is an immigrant and working towards her citizenship. It takes about 3 years to become a citizen after your green card.

Yes, the system is broken and needs repair. No, breaking the current law is not the solution.

1) Stop people from coming into this country without being investigated through (a) proper border control and proper policing of visa overstays along with (b) reducing the pull by cracking down on employers who employ those not legally allowed to work or stay in this country.

2) Revamp our immigration system to allow those the country needs to enter versus allowing those who need us to enter. This is a major problem. We allow too many in that will not contribute to society yet prohibit those who do. My cousin in law has a bachelor degree in advanced childhood education and a masters in special needs education with 2 decades of experience. She is a dual citizen of South Africa and the UK. All she wants to do is come to the USA. She has applied for many positions as nothing more than a basic public school teachers, specifically in areas that are in dire need. None will accept her and all say that current regulations will not allow them to sponsor someone from out of the country. This is stupid.
d.
1. 1b is the obvious solution. No jobs, no illegal immigrants. Its very doable., and costs substantially less than a wall. Like Romney said, they will self deport.

2. Not letting her in is dumb. But at least she can get a DL in New York!
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      06-18-2019, 11:34 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonbat View Post
(https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/exacerbate)

Mixed feelings. Back on the NY driver license thing... I had a truck I was driving totalled and was nearly killed when some undocumented folks in a large heavy vehicle turned left into me in an intersection (they had a green light, but not a green arrow, sign said left turn on arrow only). The officer said they were no english / no insurance... and all I could do is file an uninsured motorist claim to get some money for the dead truck. Had they been trained on traffic laws and stoplight characteristics around here (in the process of getting a state driver's license) could that have been avoided?

And right now doesn't it take 10-20 years to become a citizen? Why not 10-20 days? And aren't there low limits on how many citizenship or even green cards are granted each year? Would a better immigration system prevent so many folks blowing off the legal pathway?

I agree about line jumpers in general though... they're the worst. But there's a lot of legitimate asylum seekers mixed in with the people just being told by their waaay too pricey immigration lawyers how to claim asylum without real need. And granting asylum is current USA law.

Do you deport a DACA kid in medical school who has been in the USA since the age of two, who only speaks English? Do you break up families by deporting only half of the millions of line jumpers?

It's complicated, and yup, in desperate need of repair.
I live close to the border and the illegals just do a hit and run because they have no license or insurance. IMO, they need to be detained and given the choice of becoming a citizen or be sent back.
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      06-18-2019, 11:38 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Moonbat View Post
That does not differentiate between legal and illegal. The vast majority of the "benefits" they list come from the legal type as they are talking about STEM jobs and whatnot.

The illegal part is only beneficial when we have very high unemployment (we haven't for a while) and need a lot of "seasonal" workers.

I completely disagree with this point of the article "There are lots of historical examples of positive yet disruptive economic change. The Industrial Revolution displaced millions of farm workers and resulted in the great urban migrations and the birth of mega-cities to which we now ascribe all kinds of positive attributes, including creativity and innovation and higher wages. "
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      06-18-2019, 11:42 AM   #19
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I completely disagree with this point of the article "There are lots of historical examples of positive yet disruptive economic change. The Industrial Revolution displaced millions of farm workers and resulted in the great urban migrations and the birth of mega-cities to which we now ascribe all kinds of positive attributes, including creativity and innovation and higher wages. "
Me too. They conveniently left out the part of exploding homelessness, shit all over the streets, insanely high taxes, and $200k a year salaries being unable to afford rent within 50 miles of the place. Not to mention being completely beholden to the brain damaged ideology of the left if you choose to live in one of these stink holes.
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      06-18-2019, 12:40 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Schwarzschild Radius View Post
1. 1b is the obvious solution. No jobs, no illegal immigrants. Its very doable., and costs substantially less than a wall. Like Romney said, they will self deport.

2. Not letting her in is dumb. But at least she can get a DL in New York!
Not really. Studies have shown that while a decent sized portion will self deport or chose not to illegally immigrate (between 18% and 35%, depending on the study), the remaining portion will still come due to our quality of life, healthcare programs, schooling and low income benefit programs, which they will still be able to obtain. So yes, it will eliminate around a quarter of the problem, but the remaining 3/4th still need to be dealt with.

The goal of any program, whether it be governmental, political, educational, corporate, or anything else - should be aimed at having the largest impact for the smallest outlay of human and monetary capital.

If something is 10% of the problem and another thing is 90% of the problem, you go after the latter first. Once that is resolved, then you worry about the 10% problem.
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      06-18-2019, 12:46 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obert View Post
The DMV is just as bad. You dont even have to know how to read English to drive. How does that make people good drivers.
at some of the dmv locations in lower income areas you can get an aids test, apply for snap and or register to vote. talk about one stop shopping.
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      06-18-2019, 12:49 PM   #22
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That's my other question. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you just need a driver's license to register to vote?
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