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2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) General G20 Sedan / G22 Coupe / G26 Gran Coupe Discussions MT: 330 M Sport vs. Giulia Ti Sport

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      06-13-2019, 05:16 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by apascutia View Post
Like I said, it’s a fine car. It’s just too disconnected for me. It’s refined, the engine and trans combo is brilliant, and it’s a great highway cruiser. I just personally think it’s a little dull.
I have one, mine has the m-sport package and I'll say its extremely dull. It's a great luxury car but the sport aspect is lacking
I'll be more than happy to take it off your hands!
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      06-14-2019, 07:36 AM   #46
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I can honestly see both points with the old vs new debate. I think even the f30 (with sport tuned suspension) drives a bit better than your run of the mill daily commuter car. That said, some daily commuter cars have increased some facets of their game a bit, so maybe the contrast between premium car and average daily driver is less than what it once was, depending on trim line and how the cars are optioned. I haven't driven a g20 yet, but the problem with the f30 is it came with many compromises, and not the sort typically associated with a car that's marketed as a premium brand "sports sedan". The interior is adequate and functional, but not particularly interesting or "premium". The steering feels "off" in any trim or spec. You absolutely need one of the sport tuned suspension options or packages to have handling that feels acceptable. The reliability is ok by historical bmw standards, but not good by any stretch. If one wants a soft, refined ride from their 3/4 series, the f30 didn't really deliver that in any trim or spec either. The run flat tires do a lot to ruin cabin noise and smooth ride, and there are plenty of cheap sounding rattles and creaks in many, if not most f3* cars.

For the cost of the average optioned f30, one didn't want to have to compromise, especially in the ways mentioned above. This especially when the driving pleasure and premium aspects of the car were perceived to be reduced (by many), or less special compared to the average, less expensive car.

Judging by many of the reviews, the g20 might have addressed some of the more glaring compromises. Is it enough, or too little too late?
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      06-17-2019, 07:39 AM   #47
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Before test driving and buying the BMW 330i xdrive, I test drove a…

Jag XE 30t
Audi A5 coupe
Alfa Giulia
Mustang turbo

They are ALL really cool, fun cars to drive.

The Jag is: come-hither sexy
The Audi A5 is: silky smooth
The Alfa is: go-cart chic
The Mustang is: bang-for-the-buck badass

If I were 27 instead of 67 I “might” have picked the Mustang
If I were 37 instead of 67 I “might” have picked the Alfa.
If I were 47 instead of 67 I “might” have picked the Jag
If I were 77 instead of 67 I “might” have picked the Audi

But I felt the BMW was “for me” the best “overall package” for “my needs” and at “my age” and with our “crap roads” here in suburban PA and has a little bit of everything including: style, quickness, very smooth and powerful engine (for a turbo 4), very responsive/stable-at-speed handling, fantastic MPG considering the performance, excellent driving position and very nice build quality.

And yes I “really” “push” the 330i when it is safe to do so. How can you help not to? It begs to be pushed. You never feel the car will let you down.

I don’t think anyone would go “wrong” with any of these cars. It comes down to nuances and personal needs and diving style. In many ways they are more alike than different.

Some past cars include: a few of Mustang GT V-8s, 3 Infinity G35/37 sedans a Buick Regal Sport turbo.

Bob
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      06-17-2019, 10:46 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobHen View Post
Before test driving and buying the BMW 330i xdrive, I test drove a…

Jag XE 30t
Audi A5 coupe
Alfa Giulia
Mustang turbo

They are ALL really cool, fun cars to drive.

The Jag is: come-hither sexy
The Audi A5 is: silky smooth
The Alfa is: go-cart chic
The Mustang is: bang-for-the-buck badass

If I were 27 instead of 67 I “might” have picked the Mustang
If I were 37 instead of 67 I “might” have picked the Alfa.
If I were 47 instead of 67 I “might” have picked the Jag
If I were 77 instead of 67 I “might” have picked the Audi

But I felt the BMW was “for me” the best “overall package” for “my needs” and at “my age” and with our “crap roads” here in suburban PA and has a little bit of everything including: style, quickness, very smooth and powerful engine (for a turbo 4), very responsive/stable-at-speed handling, fantastic MPG considering the performance, excellent driving position and very nice build quality.

And yes I “really” “push” the 330i when it is safe to do so. How can you help not to? It begs to be pushed. You never feel the car will let you down.

I don’t think anyone would go “wrong” with any of these cars. It comes down to nuances and personal needs and diving style. In many ways they are more alike than different.

Some past cars include: a few of Mustang GT V-8s, 3 Infinity G35/37 sedans a Buick Regal Sport turbo.

Bob
Interesting perspective
One comment though, what version of A5 did you drive that you found "silky smooth". I test drove A4 6MT last year and it was the worst numb, lifeless, amoeba I've ever driven in the segment.
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      06-17-2019, 12:30 PM   #49
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If this has already been said then apologies for the reboot. I love the Alfa and have really considered buying. The bigger issue for me is resale. Even if you buy an Alfa at an exceptionally good price, good luck on trying to sell it later. Aside from all of the reasons we love BMWs, MBs and Audis, there is also a huge market and demand for them so when you are ready to sell, its an easier process. Not easy but easier. Imagine an Alfa which is having challenges in the US market, no a lot of demand and you buy the perfect car. When it comes time to sell, it may take forever unless you want to take a beating on a trade in.
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      06-17-2019, 01:17 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by MT4life View Post
Interesting perspective
One comment though, what version of A5 did you drive that you found "silky smooth". I test drove A4 6MT last year and it was the worst numb, lifeless, amoeba I've ever driven in the segment.
Audi A5 turbo 4 coupe.

Well, I wouldn’t go as far as calling it “numb” but I get where you are coming from. I personally just wanted more from the driving experience. But many others might find that “smoothness” or “numbness” to be desirable.

Bob
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      06-17-2019, 01:59 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by MT4life View Post
Interesting perspective
One comment though, what version of A5 did you drive that you found "silky smooth". I test drove A4 6MT last year and it was the worst numb, lifeless, amoeba I've ever driven in the segment.
I've yet to drive an Audi that wasn't numb and lifeless from behind the wheel.
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      06-18-2019, 02:15 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MT4life View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobHen View Post
Before test driving and buying the BMW 330i xdrive, I test drove a…

Jag XE 30t
Audi A5 coupe
Alfa Giulia
Mustang turbo

They are ALL really cool, fun cars to drive.

The Jag is: come-hither sexy
The Audi A5 is: silky smooth
The Alfa is: go-cart chic
The Mustang is: bang-for-the-buck badass

If I were 27 instead of 67 I "might" have picked the Mustang
If I were 37 instead of 67 I "might" have picked the Alfa.
If I were 47 instead of 67 I "might" have picked the Jag
If I were 77 instead of 67 I "might" have picked the Audi

But I felt the BMW was "for me" the best "overall package" for "my needs" and at "my age" and with our "crap roads" here in suburban PA and has a little bit of everything including: style, quickness, very smooth and powerful engine (for a turbo 4), very responsive/stable-at-speed handling, fantastic MPG considering the performance, excellent driving position and very nice build quality.

And yes I "really" "push" the 330i when it is safe to do so. How can you help not to? It begs to be pushed. You never feel the car will let you down.

I don't think anyone would go "wrong" with any of these cars. It comes down to nuances and personal needs and diving style. In many ways they are more alike than different.

Some past cars include: a few of Mustang GT V-8s, 3 Infinity G35/37 sedans a Buick Regal Sport turbo.

Bob
Interesting perspective
One comment though, what version of A5 did you drive that you found "silky smooth". I test drove A4 6MT last year and it was the worst numb, lifeless, amoeba I've ever driven in the segment.
I think that's why he said if he was 77 he would have chosen the Audi.
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      06-18-2019, 10:34 AM   #53
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I would never-ever pick a Mustang, simply because it's at a lower league just like Camaro. I mean if I'm 27 I'd pick a Golf GTI or something over any american car.
I wouldn't pick the A4 which is a FWD based VW wrapped with nicer materials. The worst driving experience in the segment.
And I wouldn't pick the Alfa unless I have my own repair shop. Literally one of the most unreliable brands in the entire world.
I wouldn't pick Jaguar ever, because I'm not a proud english person or anything. (I don't see any other reason)
I'd pick BMW 3 series, or Mercedes C Class if I'm very old. The competition in this category has always been between 3 series and C Class. All others are fluff.
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Last edited by Cortexiphan; 06-18-2019 at 10:45 AM..
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      06-18-2019, 03:55 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Cortexiphan View Post
I would never-ever pick a Mustang, simply because it's at a lower league just like Camaro. I mean if I'm 27 I'd pick a Golf GTI or something over any american car.
I wouldn't pick the A4 which is a FWD based VW wrapped with nicer materials. The worst driving experience in the segment.
And I wouldn't pick the Alfa unless I have my own repair shop. Literally one of the most unreliable brands in the entire world.
I wouldn't pick Jaguar ever, because I'm not a proud english person or anything. (I don't see any other reason)
I'd pick BMW 3 series, or Mercedes C Class if I'm very old. The competition in this category has always been between 3 series and C Class. All others are fluff.
I'd consider a Stang but the cheap interior turns me away. A4 is far mroe than a nice VW. Golf GTI is cool but I'm too much of a stickler for a luxurious interior.

I'll take a hard look at the Giulia for my next purchase. If it's not significantly better to drive than the 3-series then it really has no redeeming factors.
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      07-09-2019, 07:57 AM   #55
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I currently own an Alfa Giulia. My car prior to that was an E90 335d, and I've driven the G20. So I'm in a good position to judge.

Everything this review says about the driving dynamics of the Giulia is spot on. It's just a better pure driver's car. That doesn't necessarily mean it's a better car overall.

To clarify a few things.
1) This is not an FCA parts bin car. it's shares no parts with any other FCA product. Even the window switchgear and turn signal stalks are all unique to the Alfa. It is all new from the ground up. In fact sometimes this is to its detriment. For example, instead of using FCA's pretty darn good infotainment system it has its own (from the same supplier of idrive actually). But this is inferior to both i-drive and the standard FCA set up that also shows up in Maseratis.

2) My car has been bullet proof in the two years I've owned it. The only time its seen a dealer was for it regular oil change/maintenance. I've been active on the Giulia forums and I didn't see any more issues that one would expect from a brand new model. Certainly no more than the G20 is experiencing.

Having said all of that my lease is up and I'm about to get back into a BMW. First, the G20 has more or less solved all of the issues I had with the F30 that helped push me towards the Giulia in the first place. Second, the tech and the seats in the Giulia are 2nd rate. Finally, Giulia's lease terribly so it is hard to justify financially when the BMW is 98% as good from a driving dynamics point of view and has a substantially better interior. In my case it also doesn't help that the nearest Alfa dealer is 1.5 hours away from me.

The Giulia has a lot to love about it.
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      07-09-2019, 11:41 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by 3ismagic# View Post
I currently own an Alfa Giulia. My car prior to that was an E90 335d, and I've driven the G20. So I'm in a good position to judge.

Everything this review says about the driving dynamics of the Giulia is spot on. It's just a better pure driver's car. That doesn't necessarily mean it's a better car overall.

To clarify a few things.
1) This is not an FCA parts bin car. it's shares no parts with any other FCA product. Even the window switchgear and turn signal stalks are all unique to the Alfa. It is all new from the ground up. In fact sometimes this is to its detriment. For example, instead of using FCA's pretty darn good infotainment system it has its own (from the same supplier of idrive actually). But this is inferior to both i-drive and the standard FCA set up that also shows up in Maseratis.

2) My car has been bullet proof in the two years I've owned it. The only time its seen a dealer was for it regular oil change/maintenance. I've been active on the Giulia forums and I didn't see any more issues that one would expect from a brand new model. Certainly no more than the G20 is experiencing.

Having said all of that my lease is up and I'm about to get back into a BMW. First, the G20 has more or less solved all of the issues I had with the F30 that helped push me towards the Giulia in the first place. Second, the tech and the seats in the Giulia are 2nd rate. Finally, Giulia's lease terribly so it is hard to justify financially when the BMW is 98% as good from a driving dynamics point of view and has a substantially better interior. In my case it also doesn't help that the nearest Alfa dealer is 1.5 hours away from me.

The Giulia has a lot to love about it.
It may not share pieces from the FCA parts bin but it surely does share the poor reliability common to all FCA products unfortunately.

Glad to hear yours was not as bad as others but if you were to keep it past the lease term it would probably be a different story.
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      07-09-2019, 07:12 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 530iDriver View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ismagic# View Post
I currently own an Alfa Giulia. My car prior to that was an E90 335d, and I've driven the G20. So I'm in a good position to judge.

Everything this review says about the driving dynamics of the Giulia is spot on. It's just a better pure driver's car. That doesn't necessarily mean it's a better car overall.

To clarify a few things.
1) This is not an FCA parts bin car. it's shares no parts with any other FCA product. Even the window switchgear and turn signal stalks are all unique to the Alfa. It is all new from the ground up. In fact sometimes this is to its detriment. For example, instead of using FCA's pretty darn good infotainment system it has its own (from the same supplier of idrive actually). But this is inferior to both i-drive and the standard FCA set up that also shows up in Maseratis.

2) My car has been bullet proof in the two years I've owned it. The only time its seen a dealer was for it regular oil change/maintenance. I've been active on the Giulia forums and I didn't see any more issues that one would expect from a brand new model. Certainly no more than the G20 is experiencing.

Having said all of that my lease is up and I'm about to get back into a BMW. First, the G20 has more or less solved all of the issues I had with the F30 that helped push me towards the Giulia in the first place. Second, the tech and the seats in the Giulia are 2nd rate. Finally, Giulia's lease terribly so it is hard to justify financially when the BMW is 98% as good from a driving dynamics point of view and has a substantially better interior. In my case it also doesn't help that the nearest Alfa dealer is 1.5 hours away from me.

The Giulia has a lot to love about it.
It may not share pieces from the FCA parts bin but it surely does share the poor reliability common to all FCA products unfortunately.

Glad to hear yours was not as bad as others but if you were to keep it past the lease term it would probably be a different story.
I don't know....Bimmers aren't exactly hassle free either though. People are already having connectivity issues and other tech problems with their brand new, barely broken in g20s.
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      07-09-2019, 07:24 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuller View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 530iDriver View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ismagic# View Post
I currently own an Alfa Giulia. My car prior to that was an E90 335d, and I've driven the G20. So I'm in a good position to judge.

Everything this review says about the driving dynamics of the Giulia is spot on. It's just a better pure driver's car. That doesn't necessarily mean it's a better car overall.

To clarify a few things.
1) This is not an FCA parts bin car. it's shares no parts with any other FCA product. Even the window switchgear and turn signal stalks are all unique to the Alfa. It is all new from the ground up. In fact sometimes this is to its detriment. For example, instead of using FCA's pretty darn good infotainment system it has its own (from the same supplier of idrive actually). But this is inferior to both i-drive and the standard FCA set up that also shows up in Maseratis.

2) My car has been bullet proof in the two years I've owned it. The only time its seen a dealer was for it regular oil change/maintenance. I've been active on the Giulia forums and I didn't see any more issues that one would expect from a brand new model. Certainly no more than the G20 is experiencing.

Having said all of that my lease is up and I'm about to get back into a BMW. First, the G20 has more or less solved all of the issues I had with the F30 that helped push me towards the Giulia in the first place. Second, the tech and the seats in the Giulia are 2nd rate. Finally, Giulia's lease terribly so it is hard to justify financially when the BMW is 98% as good from a driving dynamics point of view and has a substantially better interior. In my case it also doesn't help that the nearest Alfa dealer is 1.5 hours away from me.

The Giulia has a lot to love about it.
It may not share pieces from the FCA parts bin but it surely does share the poor reliability common to all FCA products unfortunately.

Glad to hear yours was not as bad as others but if you were to keep it past the lease term it would probably be a different story.
I don't know....Bimmers aren't exactly hassle free either though. People are already having connectivity issues and other tech problems with their brand new, barely broken in g20s.
Yes ID7 seems half baked at best.
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      07-09-2019, 07:55 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 530iDriver View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuller View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 530iDriver View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ismagic# View Post
I currently own an Alfa Giulia. My car prior to that was an E90 335d, and I've driven the G20. So I'm in a good position to judge.

Everything this review says about the driving dynamics of the Giulia is spot on. It's just a better pure driver's car. That doesn't necessarily mean it's a better car overall.

To clarify a few things.
1) This is not an FCA parts bin car. it's shares no parts with any other FCA product. Even the window switchgear and turn signal stalks are all unique to the Alfa. It is all new from the ground up. In fact sometimes this is to its detriment. For example, instead of using FCA's pretty darn good infotainment system it has its own (from the same supplier of idrive actually). But this is inferior to both i-drive and the standard FCA set up that also shows up in Maseratis.

2) My car has been bullet proof in the two years I've owned it. The only time its seen a dealer was for it regular oil change/maintenance. I've been active on the Giulia forums and I didn't see any more issues that one would expect from a brand new model. Certainly no more than the G20 is experiencing.

Having said all of that my lease is up and I'm about to get back into a BMW. First, the G20 has more or less solved all of the issues I had with the F30 that helped push me towards the Giulia in the first place. Second, the tech and the seats in the Giulia are 2nd rate. Finally, Giulia's lease terribly so it is hard to justify financially when the BMW is 98% as good from a driving dynamics point of view and has a substantially better interior. In my case it also doesn't help that the nearest Alfa dealer is 1.5 hours away from me.

The Giulia has a lot to love about it.
It may not share pieces from the FCA parts bin but it surely does share the poor reliability common to all FCA products unfortunately.

Glad to hear yours was not as bad as others but if you were to keep it past the lease term it would probably be a different story.
I don't know....Bimmers aren't exactly hassle free either though. People are already having connectivity issues and other tech problems with their brand new, barely broken in g20s.
Yes ID7 seems half baked at best.
Yeah, the lack of dealer support for the Alfa is another matter though. If you're going to drive a car with potential reliability issues, it's good to have an established dealership network or plenty of indy garages that have expertise regarding your car.
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      07-09-2019, 08:06 PM   #60
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Yeah, the lack of dealer support for the Alfa is another matter though. If you're going to drive a car with potential reliability issues, it's good to have an established dealership network or plenty of indy garages that have expertise regarding your car.
And you will get an equivalent BMW loaner and not a Chrysler.
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      07-09-2019, 10:45 PM   #61
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuller View Post
Yeah, the lack of dealer support for the Alfa is another matter though. If you're going to drive a car with potential reliability issues, it's good to have an established dealership network or plenty of indy garages that have expertise regarding your car.
And you will get an equivalent BMW loaner and not a Chrysler.
Actually I always got a Maserati as a loaner

But admittedly this may vary by dealer. Some Alfa dealers are paired with jeep chrysler stores while other are paired with Maserati. Mine was an Maserati/Alfa Romeo Store. Not a chrysler or a jeep in sight.

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