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2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) General G20 Sedan / G22 Coupe / G26 Gran Coupe Discussions Anyone cross shop a used F80 M3 before getting M340i?

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      07-22-2019, 10:07 AM   #1
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I have been thinking about getting a used F80 M3 before the end of the year.

I drive an M4 at the M driving event at my dealer in June and I have been thinking about that car ever since! I'd opt for an M3 as I need four doors.

My X5 Went in for service on Saturday and the dealer gave me a 2019 M340i as a loaner. Nice options - driver assist, driver assist pro, 19"s, HK sounds...

Anyway I wasn't quite sure what to expect but I have been nothing but thoroughly impressed with the car ever since I've had it - I have been blasting around enjoying it all weekend.

The performance feels like 90% of the M3 in a straight like. The handling feels a little softer and it does nit corner as flat as the M3, but honestly it corners pretty darn nice for a street car. I wouldn't track this thing but for a daily driver it feels like 90% of an M3. It has lots of little things that make the M3 feel unique it just doesn't have all of it and feels more comfy and refined - less raw but still a lot of fun.

The newer tech is nice - touchscreen, digital dash, driving assistance - some people will not care about that at all and some people like it. I would not have to have it but I do think it makes the car feel much more modern and newer.

I'm kind of curious how many other people out there we're going to get a used M3 and then opted for an M340i?

I have to go out and test drive another M3 again before I can actually make a fair decision. I have also not quite sure how to make pricing comparisons as if I picked up an M3 it would be used - I'd. Need to get CPO and probably extended warranty. If I do an M340i I would lease and have factory warranty included.

Who has been in my situation what did you decide and why? Thx!

BTW, to the M purists.. i'm not suggesting that the M340i is the equivalent of an M3...I'm Sure for many people there will be no substitute for a true M car - But for others this M340 I might be a better fit for our needs.
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      07-22-2019, 11:47 AM   #2
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In my opinion if you are looking to buy an M3/M4 because you loved the driving experience, the M340i won't satisfy you. The M340i is fast, but it won't give you a big thrills like the M cars, they are very very different.
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      07-22-2019, 12:23 PM   #3
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I would give the opposite advice. M340 is so well executed - That if you drive it aggressively in proper mode - you will never miss M3 on the street. Plus you will gain all the new tech (autonomous driving, remote start, self parking, 3d view, digital key, etc)

So, unless you track i would go M340 x drive for the street. Cooling pack and non adaptive suspension to get the best handling.
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      07-22-2019, 12:35 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWModel3 View Post
Hopefully you will get the real transmission on the M3
That is a good point - if you are looking for a manual - F80 M3 is your only way to go.

New M3 is going to be a souped up M340 with full auto transmission and awd only + Huge grill
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      07-22-2019, 12:55 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWModel3 View Post
Hopefully you will get the real transmission on the M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWModel3 View Post
Hopefully you will get the real transmission on the M3
You know all of my real sports cars have been manuals. When I was young I had two different RX7's - both sticks, my Boxster was a stick, I even had a Miata with a manual. Briefly had a Volvo S60R - 6 speed. I currently have an Acura TL SH-AWD - I tried and tried to find one with the stick and couldn't and ended up settling on an automatic and I totally hate the automatic transmission in my car. It shifts really slow it totally sucks. Really sucks!!

I once had an opportunity to drive a Carrera S with PDK and that got me thinking that maybe these newer transmissions are better - but I had so little seat time in it that I didn't make up my mind.

After I test drove the M4 with the DCT - I'm sorry to say I have been completely converted. If I buy an M3 there's no way I'm getting a manual transmission I am going to get the DCT.

I have watched multiple YouTube videos where people have been debating that very point and I've read through hundreds of posts Where people debated the pros and cons of the manual transmission in the M3 and M4 versus the DCT. Ultimately it's a very subjective personal decision. I totally understand all the arguments on both sides. I think if you're going to drive the car purely for fun no question the manual is going to have more involvement at the same time the DCT car is going to be faster hands-down. Having driven the car with the DCT that's what I would get.

Which is another reason why I am considering an M340i. I don't want the car with a manual.

But that being said the transmission in the 340i is not a DCT! I will admit that the transmission that in the 340 can shift really fast for an automatic - but I remember what the shifts felt like in the M4 DCT - and the M4 shifts were brutally hard and faster - I loved it. When the car shifted gears you actually felt a push in the seat as if the car was lunging forward after every shift.

the 340i shifts quick . It makes the transmission in my Acura feel like an antique - and it's shifts a lot faster than the transmission in my X5.

But - it's not as good as the M3/M4!

I guess in the end if you are focused purely on the driving experience in terms of raw performance the new 340 I is not an equal to the M3. But if you're only looking at driving the car at 8/10 of its performance level than the 340 I does enough of what you need plus it has the newer technology but if you're only looking at driving the car at 8/10 of its performance level then the 340 I does enough of what
you need plus it has the newer technology. it all depends on where your priorities are.

They're both great cars. If one of them was given to me I would be happy with either one but if I'm going to spend my hard earned money I'm going to do more comparisons and test drives but I still think I'm leaning toward a CPO M3.

I want my car to rip around corners and turns more than I want to the driving assistance tech shit
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      07-22-2019, 01:05 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWModel3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 23109VC View Post
I want my car to rip around corners and turns more than I want to the driving assistance tech shit
Seems you have your priorities straight lol.
I had a S60R too. My first manual car so while it had its fair share of problems it kindled my love for manuals.
Kind of off-topic but I live in SoCal and actually met the gentleman who started a parts company called EVOLVE - they made aftermarket stuff specifically for the S60R and had an S60R at SEMA.... I ended up ordering a ton of his equipment for my car and it was a blast - full body kit, exhaust, downpipe, suspension .. it was a lot of fun but I also developed a lot of little gremlins and issues as it aged.

I am at the point where I really don't want to do modifications I want to buy something that performs well and is fast out of the box hence I'm looking at an M3. I could maybe see myself doing a Juicebox modification or something like that but aside from window tinting I doubt I will be putting money into modifications. Honestly both the M3 and the M340i are probably fast enough to keep me happy.
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      07-22-2019, 01:15 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 23109VC View Post
I have been thinking about getting a used F80 M3 before the end of the year.

I drive an M4 at the M driving event at my dealer in June and I have been thinking about that car ever since! I'd opt for an M3 as I need four doors.

My X5 Went in for service on Saturday and the dealer gave me a 2019 M340i as a loaner. Nice options - driver assist, driver assist pro, 19"s, HK sounds...

Anyway I wasn't quite sure what to expect but I have been nothing but thoroughly impressed with the car ever since I've had it - I have been blasting around enjoying it all weekend.

The performance feels like 90% of the M3 in a straight like. The handling feels a little softer and it does nit corner as flat as the M3, but honestly it corners pretty darn nice for a street car. I wouldn't track this thing but for a daily driver it feels like 90% of an M3. It has lots of little things that make the M3 feel unique it just doesn't have all of it and feels more comfy and refined - less raw but still a lot of fun.

The newer tech is nice - touchscreen, digital dash, driving assistance - some people will not care about that at all and some people like it. I would not have to have it but I do think it makes the car feel much more modern and newer.

I'm kind of curious how many other people out there we're going to get a used M3 and then opted for an M340i?

I have to go out and test drive another M3 again before I can actually make a fair decision. I have also not quite sure how to make pricing comparisons as if I picked up an M3 it would be used - I'd. Need to get CPO and probably extended warranty. If I do an M340i I would lease and have factory warranty included.

Who has been in my situation what did you decide and why? Thx!

BTW, to the M purists.. i'm not suggesting that the M340i is the equivalent of an M3...I'm Sure for many people there will be no substitute for a true M car - But for others this M340 I might be a better fit for our needs.
For me it was between the M3 and m340i, but couldn't justify buying something that looked exactly like the car I already owned (f30) on the inside when I could get a similarly high performance car with all new interior and tech. Also, m340i felt like a better daily driver. If I had two cars and only used the M on the weekends it would be a different story.
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      07-22-2019, 01:42 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nola2atx View Post
For me it was between the M3 and m340i, but couldn't justify buying something that looked exactly like the car I already owned (f30) on the inside when I could get a similarly high performance car with all new interior and tech. Also, m340i felt like a better daily driver. If I had two cars and only used the M on the weekends it would be a different story.
Same here - I spent a couple weeks deliberating on F80 M3 vs G20 M340i lease. I had already spent 3.5 years in an F30. The F30/F80 interiors are feeling a bit aged at this point, didn't feel like spending another 3 years in one.

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      07-22-2019, 03:13 PM   #9
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I cross shopped them, but ended up ordering a m340. As much as I miss having a great driver's car, I do appreciate how the g20 can be such a great daily car at my age. The full ///M was harsher than I wanted for hauling family and taking road trips. The interior is also way behind my current car and felt like a substantial downgrade, and being a gadget person the g20 was just so much nicer inside for a DD. If I was still in my 20s with no kids an ///M would win hands down. Maybe I will get one when the kids are bigger and I have a more comfortable DD
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      07-22-2019, 03:25 PM   #10
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I'm giving up my E92 M3 DCT for an M340i xDrive and I'm looking forward to it. The M3 is for shenanigans and is a joy to drive aggressively but for me at least it is obnoxious in traffic and is a chore to drive long distances. While comfort is quite good for a sports car, it is still a bumpy ride and supposedly F80 is even worse in this department. I'm also looking forward to having very RWD biased AWD as well because I live in a wet road climate and I'm tired of the traction issues. I had an M235i xDrive which is basically the same xDrive and it is very very good with almost no difficulty getting the back end to slide around.

I think if you're in a dry climate and want a fire breathing car, then yeah M3 all the way. But if you want a daily that is fairly comfortable, very capable, is enjoyable to drive quickly, and certainly if you want AWD, it's M340i.
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      07-22-2019, 03:34 PM   #11
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Even if I could find a new M3 (none for sale anywhere near me!), the M3 is not for me. I used to own a 2011 UltraSonic Blue Lexus IS-F, and my experience with that car led me to choose the M340i for these reasons.

1. I don't go to the track so the cost of maintenance for what I was using it for was impracticable and wasteful.
2. Where I live, I almost NEVER had a chance to open it up without being a danger to myself and others.
3. Rare fast car attracts trolls of all kinds
4. Car anxiety: always afraid to take it out for long term parking or park next to other cars in parking lots
5. Feeling pressure to fit the sports car persona means having to detail the car obsessively to keep the showroom shine.


For the price compared to a base M3, I was able to get some really usefully technology packages, such as driver assistance professional, parking assistance package, premium package, executive package. Those are the kinds of features that help you get by on the daily in the Bay Area.
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      07-22-2019, 08:39 PM   #12
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I guess I'm alone. I'd gladly lease another 6MT F80 for another 3 years if available. And yes as a daily driver and with a kid. The G20 exterior and interior don't seem like huge leaps for me. If the interior is the only deciding factor then obviously missing the point of a full M car. Hoping to get a leftover 2020 M4 when my lease is up next year.
My F80 lease was up earlier this year and I was debating M340i or stick with the F8X. I ended up with the M3 CS. The M3 CS is not my daily, so a daily focused M340i just didn't make sense.
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      07-22-2019, 09:47 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 23109VC View Post
I have been thinking about getting a used F80 M3 before the end of the year.

I drive an M4 at the M driving event at my dealer in June and I have been thinking about that car ever since! I'd opt for an M3 as I need four doors.

My X5 Went in for service on Saturday and the dealer gave me a 2019 M340i as a loaner. Nice options - driver assist, driver assist pro, 19"s, HK sounds...

Anyway I wasn't quite sure what to expect but I have been nothing but thoroughly impressed with the car ever since I've had it - I have been blasting around enjoying it all weekend.

The performance feels like 90% of the M3 in a straight like. The handling feels a little softer and it does nit corner as flat as the M3, but honestly it corners pretty darn nice for a street car. I wouldn't track this thing but for a daily driver it feels like 90% of an M3. It has lots of little things that make the M3 feel unique it just doesn't have all of it and feels more comfy and refined - less raw but still a lot of fun.

The newer tech is nice - touchscreen, digital dash, driving assistance - some people will not care about that at all and some people like it. I would not have to have it but I do think it makes the car feel much more modern and newer.

I'm kind of curious how many other people out there we're going to get a used M3 and then opted for an M340i?

I have to go out and test drive another M3 again before I can actually make a fair decision. I have also not quite sure how to make pricing comparisons as if I picked up an M3 it would be used - I'd. Need to get CPO and probably extended warranty. If I do an M340i I would lease and have factory warranty included.

Who has been in my situation what did you decide and why? Thx!

BTW, to the M purists.. i'm not suggesting that the M340i is the equivalent of an M3...I'm Sure for many people there will be no substitute for a true M car - But for others this M340 I might be a better fit for our needs.
I know it's a bit of apples to oranges but my M340 replaced my X5M and 550 and I miss neither of them. Performance is so close (again I know I'm comparing a sedan to an SUV in the M) that unless you track your car you aren't going to be shorted on your way to work or the store. I drive the M340 probably harder than any BMW I've had and it has yet to let me down and is a blast every time. The thing I miss the most with the M and 550 are interior appointments. However, I have had the 340 on a 1500 mile road trip (with 6+ hour stretch) and I never grew "tired" driving it. The car really does feel great, handles great with suspension that is sufficient for different driving styles and is comfortable on longer trips. I ordered it with performance RFT's and feel like I overdrive the tires which is why I'm eagerly awaiting the swap to Conti DWS06's in the coming months. I also know the ride will improve too going to non-RFT's.

I tossed around the idea of an M3/4 but in the end this was going to be a daily and I do live in an area with winters. After driving the M340 I knew it was going achieve both roles I needed in a daily driver and a car that would put a smile on my face with jumping out of the X5M. I have yet to be disappointed. And the 35 mpg's on that 1500 mile road trip was nice too!
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      07-23-2019, 07:39 AM   #14
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Unless you go to the track the M3 has become overkill for the street. IMHO.

350-400 bhp is about the limit of useful horsepower on US public roads. More than that and 90% of drivers will just be a menace to themselves and others.
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      07-23-2019, 08:25 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhrogFixer01 View Post
. I ordered it with performance RFT's and feel like I overdrive the tires which is why I'm eagerly awaiting the swap to Conti DWS06's in the coming months. I also know the ride will improve too going to non-RFT's.
I would seriously recommend Michelin Pilot sport 4s. Best tire on the market. You would love your car even more.
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      07-23-2019, 09:26 AM   #16
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhrogFixer01 View Post
. I ordered it with performance RFT's and feel like I overdrive the tires which is why I'm eagerly awaiting the swap to Conti DWS06's in the coming months. I also know the ride will improve too going to non-RFT's.
I would seriously recommend Michelin Pilot sport 4s. Best tire on the market. You would love your car even more.
I'll take a look at them. I have had great success with the Conti Extreme Contact DWS06's on my F16, F10, and F85. My buddy also runs them on his Infiniti Q50 red sport. Very impressive tire. I got on the Conti's back when they were one of like two Ultra High Performance A/S and I know there are many more now.
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      07-23-2019, 10:51 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 23109VC View Post
I have been thinking about getting a used F80 M3 before the end of the year.

I drive an M4 at the M driving event at my dealer in June and I have been thinking about that car ever since! I'd opt for an M3 as I need four doors.

My X5 Went in for service on Saturday and the dealer gave me a 2019 M340i as a loaner. Nice options - driver assist, driver assist pro, 19"s, HK sounds...

Anyway I wasn't quite sure what to expect but I have been nothing but thoroughly impressed with the car ever since I've had it - I have been blasting around enjoying it all weekend.

The performance feels like 90% of the M3 in a straight like. The handling feels a little softer and it does nit corner as flat as the M3, but honestly it corners pretty darn nice for a street car. I wouldn't track this thing but for a daily driver it feels like 90% of an M3. It has lots of little things that make the M3 feel unique it just doesn't have all of it and feels more comfy and refined - less raw but still a lot of fun.

The newer tech is nice - touchscreen, digital dash, driving assistance - some people will not care about that at all and some people like it. I would not have to have it but I do think it makes the car feel much more modern and newer.

I'm kind of curious how many other people out there we're going to get a used M3 and then opted for an M340i?

I have to go out and test drive another M3 again before I can actually make a fair decision. I have also not quite sure how to make pricing comparisons as if I picked up an M3 it would be used - I'd. Need to get CPO and probably extended warranty. If I do an M340i I would lease and have factory warranty included.

Who has been in my situation what did you decide and why? Thx!

BTW, to the M purists.. i'm not suggesting that the M340i is the equivalent of an M3...I'm Sure for many people there will be no substitute for a true M car - But for others this M340 I might be a better fit for our needs.
I was in your exact situation yesterday. I test drove the F80 and couldn't wipe the grin off my face. The extended Merino leather interior is way more luxurious than the G20 interior. And iDrive on 2017+ models is not far off from iDrive 7. I only use the HUD and never look at the speedometer so the center computer screen doesn't matter to me. This is coming from a comp sci guy who constantly buys new gadgets.

If after a test drive it's not a night and day difference to you like it was to me then get the M340i.
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      07-23-2019, 11:41 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by praxis218 View Post
I was in your exact situation yesterday. I test drove the F80 and couldn't wipe the grin off my face. The extended Merino leather interior is way more luxurious than the G20 interior. And iDrive on 2017+ models is not far off from iDrive 7. I only use the HUD and never look at the speedometer so the center computer screen doesn't matter to me. This is coming from a comp sci guy who constantly buys new gadgets.

If after a test drive it's not a night and day difference to you like it was to me then get the M340i.
Praxis.. Congrats on a new car. Where did you find the M3. They stopped making them. Is it Comp or not? 19s or 20s? dct or manual?

Its tough world we live in - deciding between 70K M340 and 80K M3 not a bad problem to have.

So what did you find most different in M3 acceleration/handling?

Definitely take it to some driving schools. You'd be blown away at what this car can do at the track for a 4 door saloon.
And you can fit 18 track wheels and there are track pads available.

Which for M340 i can not find any track pads yet.
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      07-23-2019, 11:52 AM   #19
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 23109VC View Post
I have been thinking about getting a used F80 M3 before the end of the year.

I drive an M4 at the M driving event at my dealer in June and I have been thinking about that car ever since! I'd opt for an M3 as I need four doors.

My X5 Went in for service on Saturday and the dealer gave me a 2019 M340i as a loaner. Nice options - driver assist, driver assist pro, 19"s, HK sounds...

Anyway I wasn't quite sure what to expect but I have been nothing but thoroughly impressed with the car ever since I've had it - I have been blasting around enjoying it all weekend.

The performance feels like 90% of the M3 in a straight like. The handling feels a little softer and it does nit corner as flat as the M3, but honestly it corners pretty darn nice for a street car. I wouldn't track this thing but for a daily driver it feels like 90% of an M3. It has lots of little things that make the M3 feel unique it just doesn't have all of it and feels more comfy and refined - less raw but still a lot of fun.

The newer tech is nice - touchscreen, digital dash, driving assistance - some people will not care about that at all and some people like it. I would not have to have it but I do think it makes the car feel much more modern and newer.

I'm kind of curious how many other people out there we're going to get a used M3 and then opted for an M340i?

I have to go out and test drive another M3 again before I can actually make a fair decision. I have also not quite sure how to make pricing comparisons as if I picked up an M3 it would be used - I'd. Need to get CPO and probably extended warranty. If I do an M340i I would lease and have factory warranty included.

Who has been in my situation what did you decide and why? Thx!

BTW, to the M purists.. i'm not suggesting that the M340i is the equivalent of an M3...I'm Sure for many people there will be no substitute for a true M car - But for others this M340 I might be a better fit for our needs.
I was in your exact situation yesterday. I test drove the F80 and couldn't wipe the grin off my face. The extended Merino leather interior is way more luxurious than the G20 interior. And iDrive on 2017+ models is not far off from iDrive 7. I only use the HUD and never look at the speedometer so the center computer screen doesn't matter to me. This is coming from a comp sci guy who constantly buys new gadgets.

If after a test drive it's not a night and day difference to you like it was to me then get the M340i.
I totally agree with your assessment I can see where the F 80 M3 and the M340i, to some extent, kind of overlap in their appeal to consumers in that both are high-performance cars it's just that the M3 is even more high-performance whereas because the 340i is a newer model it wins out on creature comforts and technology

If you're content with the performance of the M340i then you're going to be drawn in by all the bells and whistle's and the new wow factor of the new platform. If on the other hand you really want an all-around hard-core performance car if you drive the two back to back you're going to want the M3 Angil sacrifice all the new gizmos in exchange for all that hard-core handling and power.

I last drove a real M car over a month ago - thinking back to that test drive and now having the M340 for the weekend I really like the M340, I and I find the performance to be excellent but I wouldn't pull the trigger and buy one without going back into an M3 and driving it again.

I am one of those sick people who wishes they could take every on ramp like it's a track day. When I get onto a nice sweeping on ramp and there's some fucking Prius in front of me i hate it.... don't get me wrong I don't break the law and drive like a madman but I do like to push the car around turns and I can see where if you are that kind of person you would appreciate the extra edge you get from the M3

The fact that the M340 I can make people like
me who are looking at used M3's, take a second look and reconsider their purchase, just goes to show how good the M340i Is.
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      07-23-2019, 03:10 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Ilyam5 View Post
Praxis.. Congrats on a new car. Where did you find the M3. They stopped making them. Is it Comp or not? 19s or 20s? dct or manual?

Its tough world we live in - deciding between 70K M340 and 80K M3 not a bad problem to have.

So what did you find most different in M3 acceleration/handling?

Definitely take it to some driving schools. You'd be blown away at what this car can do at the track for a 4 door saloon.
And you can fit 18 track wheels and there are track pads available.

Which for M340 i can not find any track pads yet.
Thanks man! I just saw it listed locally on Autotrader at a non-BMW dealership. I did go to my service advisor at my BMW dealership and he said the factory warranty is good until late 2021. I only drive about 8,000 miles per year give or take so it's perfect for me.

I specifically avoided Competition Package because I didn't want the 20 inch rims.

It's AW/Sonoma Biege Extended Merino (beautiful material), DCT, Executive Package, and Driver Assistance Plus. The interior and exterior are basically perfect, leather shows no wear whatsoever. It looks brand new! This is my first "used" car. I would have ordered it exactly this way.

M3 acceleration can be brutal and it doesn't run out of power. The exhaust sounds awesome, reminds me of the M2C I test drove. I don't know why people don't like it.

Sports Plus is kind of lost on me since I suck at modulating the pedal. Handling you can feel the road more. I've set the M Adaptive suspension into Comfort and it's actually a more comfortable car than my 340i was. There are 3 modes to choose from for steering, suspension, and throttle response. The M1/M2 shortcut keys are awesome.


Also, never tracking the car -- I'm boring My style is like driving to the local Best Buy to get a gaming mouse or something when I'm bored...haha
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      07-23-2019, 03:17 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by 23109VC View Post
I totally agree with your assessment I can see where the F 80 M3 and the M340i, to some extent, kind of overlap in their appeal to consumers in that both are high-performance cars it's just that the M3 is even more high-performance whereas because the 340i is a newer model it wins out on creature comforts and technology

If you're content with the performance of the M340i then you're going to be drawn in by all the bells and whistle's and the new wow factor of the new platform. If on the other hand you really want an all-around hard-core performance car if you drive the two back to back you're going to want the M3 Angil sacrifice all the new gizmos in exchange for all that hard-core handling and power.

I last drove a real M car over a month ago - thinking back to that test drive and now having the M340 for the weekend I really like the M340, I and I find the performance to be excellent but I wouldn't pull the trigger and buy one without going back into an M3 and driving it again.

I am one of those sick people who wishes they could take every on ramp like it's a track day. When I get onto a nice sweeping on ramp and there's some fucking Prius in front of me i hate it.... don't get me wrong I don't break the law and drive like a madman but I do like to push the car around turns and I can see where if you are that kind of person you would appreciate the extra edge you get from the M3

The fact that the M340 I can make people like
me who are looking at used M3's, take a second look and reconsider their purchase, just goes to show how good the M340i Is.
Yeah it's very subjective. For me there is a huge difference (I was unfortunately bored with the M340i test drive during M Tour, then drove M2C and was blown away... now here we are). Other people feel they are 90% similar. I think the M340i would be better for you as it'll be less of a headache in terms of upkeep.
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      07-23-2019, 11:39 PM   #22
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Unless you go to the track the M3 has become overkill for the street. IMHO.

350-400 bhp is about the limit of useful horsepower on US public roads. More than that and 90% of drivers will just be a menace to themselves and others.
I agree. Even my ZHP is almost too quick for public roads.
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