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2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) General G20 Sedan / G22 Coupe / G26 Gran Coupe Discussions C&D: BMW 330i RWD vs Alfa Giulia Q2 Ti Sport

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      12-20-2019, 01:15 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by BMWZ4 View Post
Bad day today lol? All the poster said was when he hears the word Alfa he hears unreliable. I agree with him. Has nothing to do with having driven one or not (lately) nor anything to do with being a fanboy.

It's a perception thing and their marketing team needs to work on it. In my opinion naturally.

Oh, and I assume from your post you drive one or drive them quite frequently....
Then this means you're just another fanboy on these forums. You agree on something that has no validity so it makes your reply irrelevant.
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      12-20-2019, 01:18 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Fuller View Post
Guess what? You're on a bmw enthusiast site, not an Alfa forum. This means you should expect bmw fanboys here. If you want to share enthusiasm with Alfa fanboys go to an Alfa forum.
No buddy, we don't expect fanboys on here even though they exist, but all of us including you I'm hoping want non-biased educated replys and conversations.
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      12-20-2019, 01:30 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by M3GymNut View Post
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Originally Posted by BMWZ4 View Post
Bad day today lol? All the poster said was when he hears the word Alfa he hears unreliable. I agree with him. Has nothing to do with having driven one or not (lately) nor anything to do with being a fanboy.

It's a perception thing and their marketing team needs to work on it. In my opinion naturally.

Oh, and I assume from your post you drive one or drive them quite frequently....
Then this means you're just another fanboy on these forums. You agree on something that has no validity so it makes your reply irrelevant.
Lol...Merry Christmas! Have a nice day!
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      12-20-2019, 01:40 PM   #48
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Carmax has 73,970 cars for sale right now and not one Alfa? That's...odd.
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      12-20-2019, 01:42 PM   #49
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Look no further than the long term reviews on the Alfa's, I think it was road and track who spent more than 3 months in the shop in less than two years of ownership, they got so sick of it they turned it back in and didn't finish the review

There's no reason a brand new unmodified car should be blowing diffs
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      12-20-2019, 01:44 PM   #50
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It's also a shame that FCA has the best lineup across any overarching car brand but everything they have their hand in turns to junk. Not even the wrangler is immune after they forgot to weld the rear control arms.
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      12-20-2019, 02:30 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
You actually need two Alfa's in total...

One to drive, while the other one is in the shop.
In my case it is the contrary...I need 2 BMW to have one on the road. My Alfa's (arguably standard models) have been more reliable than my BMW M cars and issues with the Alfa were always minor things.
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      12-20-2019, 03:01 PM   #52
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This is my wife's new car, less the track package and it has the all-season vice summer tires (non-staggered ... missed that, it was a lease turn in with 3500 miles). All the dynamic comments are spot on, albeit in our case, less grip which is no issue; she's no back road racer. Biggest gripe is the multitude of features that must be mastered and the OBTW's associated with them. You want the car's Nav and normal phone? No Apple Carplay. The car can get confused when two keys representing two driver profiles are in the car. Steering is still a bit dead, but better than F30. Overall, a step in the right direction, but lacking the E90/E46 connection to the road.
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      12-20-2019, 03:25 PM   #53
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Alfa's are getting better and better.

Great to have strong competition, this is what makes cars better
Source?
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      12-20-2019, 03:58 PM   #54
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42mpg at 75mph for a car that can hit 60mph in almost 5 seconds flat. Also, .99g on the skid pad? isn't that approaching 911 territory???
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      12-20-2019, 05:02 PM   #55
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I almost got a Gulia last year because they had such low lease rates. But I was skeptical about the brand because it doesn't have much history in N.America. Instead I got a VW GTI - I never knew these little hatches were so fun to drive until I test drove one! Lol. It's obviously not as powerful as my B58 but I feel it's more fun and connected than my 240...
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      12-20-2019, 06:20 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3GymNut View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuller View Post
Guess what? You're on a bmw enthusiast site, not an Alfa forum. This means you should expect bmw fanboys here. If you want to share enthusiasm with Alfa fanboys go to an Alfa forum.
No buddy, we don't expect fanboys on here even though they exist, but all of us including you I'm hoping want non-biased educated replys and conversations.
Sure, except the post you had quoted and responded to in such a harsh manner seemed fairly reasonable. He only stated that he has a hard time considering Alfa products due to their bad track record concerning reliability. I don't think this is completely unwarranted or unreasonable.

Alfa might be addressing these issues, and maybe that reputation is no longer deserved. It'll be difficult, though, for alfa to completely disown that reputation in the US market due to their checkered past. Combine that with a still spotty dealer network, less availability of parts, and the Giulia's highly competitive market segment, and they have their work cut out for them.

In all fairness bmw doesn't have the best reputation where reliability is concerned either. Look at the issues people were having (and I think are still having to some degree) with the g20 software bugs. Had that been the 2019 Giulia, everyone would be citing it as evidence of poor quality and reliability. Bmw, however, does have a well established dealer network (not all good though), and plenty of independent garages capable of repairing and maintaining their cars. That gives bmw owners some peace of mind that Alfa drivers don't share in many regions throughout the US. There are also plenty of options regarding bmw OEM and after market parts, where as with Alfa, it seems like waiting for the required parts is more likely to require weeks.

Beyond that though, I think many people here praise the Giulia, even if not with the same fanaticism that they reserve for the model 3. I think fiat will benefit the Alfa brand the most by getting more Alfa badged cars on the street. Time and aggressive price reductions seem to be helping, as I definitely see more Giulias on the road today, than I have in the few years since it's been released. That trend has to continue though, or else the dealer network will remain spotty, and their reputation will continue to fight an uphill battle. Increasing numbers of happy motorists, driving attractive, classy Giulias are what's needed.
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      12-20-2019, 11:43 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuller View Post
Sure, except the post you had quoted and responded to in such a harsh manner seemed fairly reasonable. He only stated that he has a hard time considering Alfa products due to their bad track record concerning reliability. I don't think this is completely unwarranted or unreasonable.

Alfa might be addressing these issues, and maybe that reputation is no longer deserved. It'll be difficult, though, for alfa to completely disown that reputation in the US market due to their checkered past. Combine that with a still spotty dealer network, less availability of parts, and the Giulia's highly competitive market segment, and they have their work cut out for them.

In all fairness bmw doesn't have the best reputation where reliability is concerned either. Look at the issues people were having (and I think are still having to some degree) with the g20 software bugs. Had that been the 2019 Giulia, everyone would be citing it as evidence of poor quality and reliability. Bmw, however, does have a well established dealer network (not all good though), and plenty of independent garages capable of repairing and maintaining their cars. That gives bmw owners some peace of mind that Alfa drivers don't share in many regions throughout the US. There are also plenty of options regarding bmw OEM and after market parts, where as with Alfa, it seems like waiting for the required parts is more likely to require weeks.

Beyond that though, I think many people here praise the Giulia, even if not with the same fanaticism that they reserve for the model 3. I think fiat will benefit the Alfa brand the most by getting more Alfa badged cars on the street. Time and aggressive price reductions seem to be helping, as I definitely see more Giulias on the road today, than I have in the few years since it's been released. That trend has to continue though, or else the dealer network will remain spotty, and their reputation will continue to fight an uphill battle. Increasing numbers of happy motorists, driving attractive, classy Giulias are what's needed.
Very well articulated response.
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      12-21-2019, 08:02 AM   #58
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My issue with these comparison threads is that there's always some random character who waltzes in to tell us how the competition is so much better than the G20. If a G20 owner disagrees they're met with disdain and called out as fanboys which is ridiculous. Oftentimes, these people don't even own the cars that are supposedly better than the G20.

There are countless factors that goes into car buying, it boggles my mind what these trolls hope to accomplish by forcing their agenda on others. Choosing a car for some of us is akin to selecting a spouse. Countless person factors goes into the selection. There's no point in trying to tell someone who have already chosen a G20 that they made the ill informed decision because somehow the Tesla, Genesis, Alfa, Mercedes etc are all better than the G20. It is borderline insulting.

C+D test clearly showed the shortcomings of the Giulia so how is it better overall when it had inferior brakes for example. Better is subjective and the data provided has not shown that the Giulia is superior to the G20. Having better steering response does not automatically make the Giulia better. Giulia's were highly regarded during the era of the F30. G20 has improved many of the shortcomings in the F30. Why is it a surprise that the G20 matches up well with the Giulia and surpasses it in many areas. G20 is a new model and nothing less is expected. In summary, F the Guilia, whomever wants one can go buy it, we live in a free marketplace. That's what's so great about having choices.
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      12-21-2019, 08:53 AM   #59
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There are countless factors that goes into car buying, it boggles my mind what these trolls hope to accomplish by forcing their agenda on others. Choosing a car for some of us is akin to selecting a spouse. Countless person factors goes into the selection. There's no point in trying to tell someone who have already chosen a G20 that they made the ill informed decision because somehow the Tesla, Genesis, Alfa, Mercedes etc are all better than the G20. It is borderline insulting.
Agree with your observations.

Motor magazine comparisons can also be so limited, when we widen out to the full ownership experience, which most of us do.

We have the same issues over here in the UK. Motor mags' will rate models for the 'dynamic' driving experience. We've had it with the Jaguar and Alfa, rated for 'slightly better' driving experience than the BMW. What about the wider picture, such as ownership costs and long term experience? Even the (flawed to some) F3x models set the benchmark for many users. The money gets spent on the BMW, as the 'total package' is best suited to ownership.

The G20 has upped the bar. The competition, even if examples are better in some areas of the driving experience, can't compete with the real world demands of many users, which BMW does tend to fulfil so much better.
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      12-21-2019, 09:19 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EXE46 View Post
There are countless factors that goes into car buying, it boggles my mind what these trolls hope to accomplish by forcing their agenda on others. Choosing a car for some of us is akin to selecting a spouse. Countless person factors goes into the selection. There's no point in trying to tell someone who have already chosen a G20 that they made the ill informed decision because somehow the Tesla, Genesis, Alfa, Mercedes etc are all better than the G20. It is borderline insulting.
Agree with your observations.

Motor magazine comparisons can also be so limited, when we widen out to the full ownership experience, which most of us do.

We have the same issues over here in the UK. Motor mags' will rate models for the 'dynamic' driving experience. We've had it with the Jaguar and Alfa, rated for 'slightly better' driving experience than the BMW. What about the wider picture, such as ownership costs and long term experience? Even the (flawed to some) F3x models set the benchmark for many users. The money gets spent on the BMW, as the 'total package' is best suited to ownership.

The G20 has upped the bar. The competition, even if examples are better in some areas of the driving experience, can't compete with the real world demands of many users, which BMW does tend to fulfil so much better.
Agreed. The Jaguar might be a better drive but the package as a whole fails miserably. Poor sales of these Jaguar sedans and their reputation for rubbish reliability and after sales support, speak volumes.
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      12-21-2019, 05:38 PM   #61
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The Alfa's shape and styling is very much based on the previous gen 3er, aside from the nose. Which is good.

The new 3 is very good looker, but what a porker! 3700 pounds for a 330i .... I had to re-read and make sure it wasn't an xi... but I get it, its a large car now. 42mpg at 75, wow. I can't believe a stick wouldn't have hit fuel econ standards....
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      12-22-2019, 05:05 AM   #62
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Comments like this are so overblown and bullshit.

How many Alfa's have you owned since they relaunched here in the U.S. in 2018? How many have you driven? How many Alfa's have you had in the "shop"? People that post up shit like this shouldn't have a keyboard to type on.

The Alfa line up eats anything BMW puts against it... The suspension, engine, driving feel and points of engagement are incredible. Sure...the new 3 series has a refreshed interior and it looks much better than the previous F30...but that's about all it has going for it against anything Alfa.

These fanboy comments with zero validity are just pointless.
Not sure how the Alfa line up "eats" anything BMW puts against it. You talk about driving feel and points of engagement and yet you can't even turn traction control off in the Giulia. Handling wise, the 330i is the better car. When it comes to overall built quality, technology and reliability, BMW has Alfa beat. Alfa does have a better engine but with a super low redline, it definitely isn't an exciting engine. I do really like the Giulia a lot but to say it "eats" the BMW, that's definitely not true and same can be said with the Stelvio vs X3 comparison.
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      12-22-2019, 01:30 PM   #63
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I tested the Alfa before ordering the 340, but I was honest with the salesman that I expected to order the BMW. I got the feeling that I was one of maybe two or three people who walked in the door that day, so he was happy to oblige me.

I would say that it probably felt a little more nimble, but certainly not enough to dissuade me from spending more on the 340.
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      12-22-2019, 04:11 PM   #64
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I can speak for the 330i which I drove for a week as a rental....It's really a solid piece and really entertaining to drive. If I had to fault it at all it would be the fact that it ran out of torque at higher speeds, didn't have M-Sport brakes, which was noticeable, and the usual complaint about steering feel. Otherwise, it was a wonderful ride, though probably a bit overpriced with all the desirable options. Optioned up, the M340i X-Drive would be hot.
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      12-22-2019, 05:54 PM   #65
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As an ex-Alfa owner, I can tell you Alfa is JUNK.
I also personally find Giulia quite boring and ugly.
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      12-22-2019, 06:27 PM   #66
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For all of the Alfa lovers, watch "6 Underground" on Netflix as the lime green Alfa with FOUR passengers out-paces an E60 M5 through Italy. That should cement its dominance for the lovers.
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