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2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) General G20 Sedan / G22 Coupe / G26 Gran Coupe Discussions If the G20 wasn't available, what vehicle would you get? Need recommendations!

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      02-12-2020, 10:51 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by alpinewhite3 View Post
BMW just can't figure out EPS for some reason. Don't get me wrong- the chassis/suspension, etc. is on another level compared to the competition...but god damn, why can't they just give us a super non twitchy/smooth/linear/well weighted steering?
Maybe it's time to bring in consultants.... Although I could see BMW being way too prideful to do something like that.
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      02-12-2020, 11:02 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by alpinewhite3 View Post
Thank you for all your helpful suggestions & advice. Narrowed it down to the Golf GTI, Mazda 3 hatcback vs Mini cooper S 4 door. (in that order)

Any current/prior owners of these vehicles have any opinions? The GTI is such a fun daily driver...dare I say-even more enjoyable than my 330i. Doesn't lease that well but may just finance it.

Also, honest opinion here after 10,000 miles and don't crucify me but..as much as i love the 330i...the more cars i test drive...the less satisfying i find the steering. BMW just can't figure out EPS for some reason. Don't get me wrong- the chassis/suspension, etc. is on another level compared to the competition...but god damn, why can't they just give us a super non twitchy/smooth/linear/well weighted steering?
All good choices, I would go with either the Mazda for the luxury for less experience or the GTI for the fun driving experience. I believe, although not certain, that if you find a leftover 2019 GTI you can still get the 6/72 warranty vs the new 4/50 which I always say can come in handy with a German car.

As for EPS, yes, I am one of their biggest critics of their steering. It baffles me how they either can't make a good rack, or they just refuse to tune it properly. Its not just feedback but also some of the weighting in modes like sport plus just feel overly synthetic through the heft that it adds. Even when creating the G20 they used an entirely new rack just to only put it into the 330i and not the 340i, one would think BMW would have thought of this before building the cars, so shockingly, the 340 which BMW markets as the sportier/performance oriented model, receives the older/worse F30 steering setup. I drove a Supra recently, and even Toyota tuned the EPS better than that of any BMW. Even brands like Mazda, Honda, hell even my Mercedes, have figured out how to better tune EPS.

I do hope BMW does try harder with their steering, in 2020, it marks 10 years (a whole decade) of EPS in BMW and the improvements made don't feel very impressive despite the long time they had to do so. While this hasn't been a deal-breaker for cars like the M2 which is communicative in other ways (which is why I love it). It just pains me that they went from a manufacturer who had some of the best steering, to now a manufacturer with some of the worst/pretty average steering.
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      02-12-2020, 11:54 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
All good choices, I would go with either the Mazda for the luxury for less experience or the GTI for the fun driving experience. I believe, although not certain, that if you find a leftover 2019 GTI you can still get the 6/72 warranty vs the new 4/50 which I always say can come in handy with a German car.

As for EPS, yes, I am one of their biggest critics of their steering. It baffles me how they either can't make a good rack, or they just refuse to tune it properly. Its not just feedback but also some of the weighting in modes like sport plus just feel overly synthetic through the heft that it adds. Even when creating the G20 they used an entirely new rack just to only put it into the 330i and not the 340i, one would think BMW would have thought of this before building the cars, so shockingly, the 340 which BMW markets as the sportier/performance oriented model, receives the older/worse F30 steering setup. I drove a Supra recently, and even Toyota tuned the EPS better than that of any BMW. Even brands like Mazda, Honda, hell even my Mercedes, have figured out how to better tune EPS.

I do hope BMW does try harder with their steering, in 2020, it marks 10 years (a whole decade) of EPS in BMW and the improvements made don't feel very impressive despite the long time they had to do so. While this hasn't been a deal-breaker for cars like the M2 which is communicative in other ways (which is why I love it). It just pains me that they went from a manufacturer who had some of the best steering, to now a manufacturer with some of the worst/pretty average steering.
Yeah, i completely agree with you. And, after 4 generations of 3 series ownership i may just be ready to throw in the towel after my lease ends unless significant improvements are made.

I genuinely am not even asking for a lot here...I understand that feedback is lost with EPS and i am willing to concede that point. But the G20 rack itself just feels off. It's not smoothly linear and the weighting is completely inconsistent. The best way to describe it-every time i drive it, it feels different. Like i can't get used to it. I know I'm being overly harsh in this post but i expect more from BMW. And it really sucks b/c everything else about the car is perfect (despite being a bit too big but i;d forgive that if they fixed the steering)

In comparison my brother has a 2 series and while feedback is pretty limited, the rack just feels much much better overall. Hell, it even feels better in my mom's X1. I think in trying to over correct the F30 steering, they over tuned/over engineered it.

After 10,000 miles I got used to it and i convinced myself that it was pretty good(coming from F30)...it's only until you go out and test drive other cars when you realize how borderline average/below average it is. The GTI rack is better, so is the Mazda 3 and the Mini S(which is owned by BMW ). I also had a Jaguar F-pace rental in Arizona recently and thought that rack was better as well...as is my sister's G70. Heck for as bad as the F30 steering was - at least the weighting was linear and consistent and it felt smooth overall.

And again, this is no offense to everyone who really likes it, just personal preference. Maybe a lot of it has to do with the size/mass of the new G20 so it just feels like piloting a ship and I've been test driving smaller cars so they just feel more fun/nimble. But that can't be it b/c the F pace is a larger SUV and the steering made it feel light on its feet. The steering on 330i makes it feel even bigger and heavier than it is.

Take the GTI steering for example- fairly light steering but not in a bad way. Very predictive, linear and smooth. Super quick ratio. Can toss that baby through a parking garage with my pinky while sipping a latte. Still feels solid and planted at high speeds despite the quick ratio steering. I mean I don't know, is that a lot to ask?
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      02-12-2020, 12:02 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by wtwo3 View Post
Maybe it's time to bring in consultants.... Although I could see BMW being way too prideful to do something like that.
Why can't they just consult with the guys tuning the EPS steering in the Mini Cooper and 2 series?

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      02-12-2020, 12:07 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by alpinewhite3 View Post
After 10,000 miles I got used to it and i convinced myself that it was pretty good...This is not something you pick up on during a short test drive...it's only until you go out and test drive other cars when you realize how borderline average/below average it is. The GTI rack is better, so was the Mazda and the Mini(which is owned by bmw ). I had a Jaguar F-pace rental in Arizona and thought that rack was better as well. So is my sisters G70.
If you'd like to re-calibrate your expectations, just rent a Q50 with steer-by-wire for a weekend and you'll be good to go. Trust me, after driving my Q50 for 3 years, my M340 has incredible steering
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      02-12-2020, 09:05 PM   #50
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpinewhite3 View Post
After 10,000 miles I got used to it and i convinced myself that it was pretty good...This is not something you pick up on during a short test drive...it's only until you go out and test drive other cars when you realize how borderline average/below average it is. The GTI rack is better, so was the Mazda and the Mini(which is owned by bmw ). I had a Jaguar F-pace rental in Arizona and thought that rack was better as well. So is my sisters G70.
If you'd like to re-calibrate your expectations, just rent a Q50 with steer-by-wire for a weekend and you'll be good to go. Trust me, after driving my Q50 for 3 years, my M340 has incredible steering
Yeah 2nd this. I drove a 2020 Q50 RS recently and my god that steering was awful. Even the sales rep told me he owns the car and doesn't like the steering feedback. No wonder they're suffering with sales
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      02-12-2020, 09:08 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdiddy23 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by wtwo3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpinewhite3 View Post
After 10,000 miles I got used to it and i convinced myself that it was pretty good...This is not something you pick up on during a short test drive...it's only until you go out and test drive other cars when you realize how borderline average/below average it is. The GTI rack is better, so was the Mazda and the Mini(which is owned by bmw ). I had a Jaguar F-pace rental in Arizona and thought that rack was better as well. So is my sisters G70.
If you'd like to re-calibrate your expectations, just rent a Q50 with steer-by-wire for a weekend and you'll be good to go. Trust me, after driving my Q50 for 3 years, my M340 has incredible steering
Yeah 2nd this. I drove a 2020 Q50 RS recently and my god that steering was awful. Even the sales rep told me he owns the car and doesn't like the steering feedback. No wonder they're suffering with sales
The demise of Infiniti really is a sad one. RIP to the great G35/37.

The Q50 is essentially Infiniti's F30 moment. Only problem is, they haven't come back from it.
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      02-15-2020, 09:34 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by alpinewhite3 View Post
Thank you for all your helpful suggestions & advice. Narrowed it down to the Golf GTI, Mazda 3 hatcback vs Mini cooper S 4 door. (in that order)

Any current/prior owners of these vehicles have any opinions? The GTI is such a fun daily driver...dare I say-even more enjoyable than my 330i. Doesn't lease that well but may just finance it.

Also, honest opinion here after 10,000 miles and don't crucify me but..as much as i love the 330i...the more cars i test drive...the less satisfying i find the steering. BMW just can't figure out EPS for some reason. Don't get me wrong- the chassis/suspension, etc. is on another level compared to the competition...but god damn, why can't they just give us a non twitchy/super smooth/linear/well weighted steering?
Alpinewhite3, between those for ME I would pick the GTI, however if its your wife's car the Mazda3 gets my vote. The car is just a touch softer feeling than the prior generation, and while the prior generation has a bit more of a driver's feel it has no power compared to the GTI. The feel of the new Mazda3 and the full suite of luxury features including adaptive cruise standard makes it unbeatable from a value perspective IMHO.

My wife always wanted a Mini but everytime she tried one she found something to hold her back, be it on space, ergonomics or perceived reliability. Very curious what you end up pulling the trigger on!
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      02-24-2020, 08:45 PM   #53
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I would have picked up another Alfa Giulia, a stinger GT, or a GTI
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