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2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) General G20 Sedan / G22 Coupe / G26 Gran Coupe Discussions Toyota puts the B58B30O1 in the 2021 Supra (Same as BMW M*40i - 382hp / 369lb-ft)

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      02-18-2020, 08:49 PM   #45
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The cynic in me doesn't care one bit if the Z4 was sacrificed and Supra stayed true to its Japanese roots. The only good argument I see here from some smart folks, is the probability of more aftermarket support at cheaper price points. I can relish in that.....
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      02-18-2020, 09:43 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EXE46 View Post
The cynic in me doesn't care one bit if the Z4 was sacrificed and Supra stayed true to its Japanese roots. The only good argument I see here from some smart folks, is the probability of more aftermarket support at cheaper price points. I can relish in that.....
I think the issue is the Supra would not have existed either. Toyota just wasn't willing to invest in R&D to develop their own motor for purposes of a low volume sports car.

Although I'd argue that the R&D costs would be worth it if they re-purposed that new motor for the Lexus lineup. But maybe Toyota's wary of spending big on R&D after the ridiculous 10 years it took them to develop the LFA, with that brilliant screaming V10 that never made its way into any other Lexus cars.
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      02-19-2020, 06:45 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burrcold View Post

Quote:
What are the "plenty of options" you speak of? American muscle cars are not the competitors to either the Z4 or Supra. Miata, BRZ? Not quite. Porsche Cayman? Yes but you are paying a huge premium. Upcoming C8? Definitely.

I'll take the mid-engine Stingray over the Supra any day.

2020 Corvette Stingray
HP: 490
Torque: 465
MSRP: $58,900
Weight: 3535

2021 Toyota Supra
HP: 382
Torque: 369
MSRP: $49,990
Weight: 3381
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      02-19-2020, 07:08 AM   #48
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Not to bounce the rubble but I too am with the 'who cares' crowd.

I think that Toyota / BMW shared the cost for developing the engine so we both benefited from the partnership.

Look on the bright side, Toyota is famous for reliability so having their fingers in making the engine should actually makes us feel much better about the M340
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      02-19-2020, 08:56 AM   #49
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B58 is not new, this was merely an updated motor and it is known to be reliable so I doubt Toyota had any input that will enhance the reliability.
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      02-19-2020, 09:01 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EXE46 View Post
B58 is not new, this was merely an updated motor and it is known to be reliable so I doubt Toyota had any input that will enhance the reliability.
Only issue so far seems to be that the B58 looses coolant fairly often.
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      02-19-2020, 09:38 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EXE46 View Post
B58 is not new, this was merely an updated motor and it is known to be reliable so I doubt Toyota had any input that will enhance the reliability.
Disagree. Reliability IS their thing and reports claim they were part of the process. Even if they didn't have any input then there is the issue that they wouldn't use it if they were not satisfied with the reliability.
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      02-19-2020, 09:46 AM   #52
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It was already reliable, I came from a Lexus and have heard enough of the reliability rhetoric. Toyota was just lazy and cheap and thus decided to partner with BMW and use the B58 . Again this is not a new engine. There's been a few minor changes from that which was in the 340/240i.
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      02-19-2020, 09:50 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyd2 View Post
Disagree. Reliability IS their thing and reports claim they were part of the process. Even if they didn't have any input then there is the issue that they wouldn't use it if they were not satisfied with the reliability.
You kind of just reiterated EXE46 's point. Them not using it if it wasn't reliable means it was already reliable, and thus they used it.

The only input Toyota had was their own tuning specifications for the Supra. But the structure of the motor is all BMW.
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      02-19-2020, 11:22 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtwo3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyd2 View Post
Disagree. Reliability IS their thing and reports claim they were part of the process. Even if they didn't have any input then there is the issue that they wouldn't use it if they were not satisfied with the reliability.
You kind of just reiterated EXE46 's point. Them not using it if it wasn't reliable means it was already reliable, and thus they used it.

The only input Toyota had was their own tuning specifications for the Supra. But the structure of the motor is all BMW.
I doubt Toyota even influenced the actual engine output tune. Likely only the throttle feel and responsiveness.

Th current version in the Supra is the same tune/component build as is in the x5. The upgrade will just move it to the same tune/build as the US Z4/M340/X3 M40i
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      02-19-2020, 11:34 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xlover View Post
I doubt Toyota even influenced the actual engine output tune. Likely only the throttle feel and responsiveness.

Th current version in the Supra is the same tune/component build as is in the x5. The upgrade will just move it to the same tune/build as the US Z4/M340/X3 M40i
The tune is actually slightly different from the X5.

The Supra is tuned for greater torque output, and max HP comes on slightly sooner than on the X5:
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      02-19-2020, 12:25 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyd2 View Post
Not to bounce the rubble but I too am with the 'who cares' crowd.

I think that Toyota / BMW shared the cost for developing the engine so we both benefited from the partnership.

Look on the bright side, Toyota is famous for reliability so having their fingers in making the engine should actually makes us feel much better about the M340
Toyota helped build this engine? Do you have any sources to backup this claim?
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      02-19-2020, 12:57 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownRoyal79 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyd2 View Post
Not to bounce the rubble but I too am with the 'who cares' crowd.

I think that Toyota / BMW shared the cost for developing the engine so we both benefited from the partnership.

Look on the bright side, Toyota is famous for reliability so having their fingers in making the engine should actually makes us feel much better about the M340
Toyota helped build this engine? Do you have any sources to backup this claim?
Pretty sure the only thing Toyota did was purely tune the engine, suspension, steering and other components. I doubt that they built anything.
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      02-19-2020, 06:24 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownRoyal79 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyd2 View Post
Not to bounce the rubble but I too am with the 'who cares' crowd.

I think that Toyota / BMW shared the cost for developing the engine so we both benefited from the partnership.

Look on the bright side, Toyota is famous for reliability so having their fingers in making the engine should actually makes us feel much better about the M340
Toyota helped build this engine? Do you have any sources to backup this claim?
Pretty sure the only thing Toyota did was purely tune the engine, suspension, steering and other components. I doubt that they built anything.
This engine has the same tune on the M340i. Do you have a source showing Toyota tunes it, not BMW?
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      02-19-2020, 07:13 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownRoyal79 View Post
Toyota helped build this engine? Do you have any sources to backup this claim?
I don't remember where I read it but I'm sure google works where you live too

I think it was in connection with working together on the Z4, or sharing the cost of development or something like that.
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      02-19-2020, 08:14 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownRoyal79 View Post
This engine has the same tune on the M340i. Do you have a source showing Toyota tunes it, not BMW?
I think he was talking about the 2020 Supra, not the new 2021 one. The former has a different tune than both the X5 and the Z4.

I wouldn't be surprised if the 2021 has a slightly different tune by the time it starts hitting dealers in June, but only time will tell.
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      02-19-2020, 10:17 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownRoyal79 View Post
This engine has the same tune on the M340i. Do you have a source showing Toyota tunes it, not BMW?
This is just the narrative toyota has been spinning to make it sound like they actually did anything at all and the jdm fanboys / can barely can spell their own names crowd eats it up. They parrot that "the fake vents can come out for tuners" quotes too.
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      02-20-2020, 12:09 PM   #62
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https://jalopnik.com/decoding-the-ne...1831993336/amp
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      02-20-2020, 02:36 PM   #63
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Some timing huh...

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...yota-gr-supra/
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      02-20-2020, 03:09 PM   #64
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Question

But will a Supra get the S58 500hp engine? If I were in the market for a Supra I would be pissed at Toyota for not getting the S58 for their premiere sports car.....
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      02-21-2020, 08:44 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by wtwo3 View Post
Saw this yesterday too
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      02-21-2020, 11:39 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtwo3 View Post
The tune is actually slightly different from the X5.

The Supra is tuned for greater torque output, and max HP comes on slightly sooner than on the X5:
interesting i mistakenly assumed the x5 got the 369lbft tune. I am now curious if the component version matches.

the 369lb/ft number has been the upper limit for the B58 in multiple versions
-355hp: MPPSK for the first gen B58 and std for 2019 X3 M40i
-335hp: supra/euro Z4
-382hp: M340/2020 X3 M40i/USA Z4/supra upgrade
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